Paul223 Posted October 7, 2012 Report Share Posted October 7, 2012 Whats the legal position of spent shot landing on neighbouring land? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dekers Posted October 7, 2012 Report Share Posted October 7, 2012 Whats the legal position of spent shot landing on neighbouring land? The legal position is simple, you are potentially in a lot of trouble if you shoot outside your boundary. But the question is way to wide..and what is spent shot, enough to sting your hand, dent the bonnet of their car, break a conservatory roof, or just short of all that? Then, what gives you the right to contaminate their soil, deposit your litter (shot) in their garden, etc etc. Bottom line is keep your shot within your own boundary or be prepared for grief. Even if you don't do any harm (define that) how long do you think you will keep your SGC if the neighbours keep calling the police and telling them its raining lead all the time in their garden? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted October 7, 2012 Report Share Posted October 7, 2012 On one of the big local shoots,there is a large house in its own grounds surrounded by another landowners land on which the shoot takes place.Everyone;beaters,shooters,landowner and householder all grew up in this area but some time ago householder and landowner had a fall out and now we are forbidden to let any shot fall over the householders boundary,let alone retrieve birds. Makes for a very difficuilt drive or two. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guest1957 Posted October 8, 2012 Report Share Posted October 8, 2012 The position as BASC believe it to be: "To fire a bullet or shot onto land that you have no right to shoot into or over is ‘constructive trespass’. Whilst this is a civil matter BASC strongly advises not to do this. [...]Please note that in the case of air weapons it is a criminal offence to fire an air pellet outside the boundary of your permitted premises." If any damage is caused, or a firearm is taken onto property that you have no right to be on it becomes more complex. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul223 Posted October 9, 2012 Author Report Share Posted October 9, 2012 yes thats all i could find on the matter as well being a civil matter would i be correct to think that the police would not be interested (no damage and no one carring a firearm where they should not) also how do i stand with carrying a firearm in a slip over a private drive of which i have a right of access? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dekers Posted October 9, 2012 Report Share Posted October 9, 2012 yes thats all i could find on the matter as well being a civil matter would i be correct to think that the police would not be interested (no damage and no one carring a firearm where they should not) also how do i stand with carrying a firearm in a slip over a private drive of which i have a right of access? The Police would be VERY interested in any report of a "firearms" incident. Think about it......... There are no legal problems carrying a covered firearm over a private drive of which you have appropriate rights. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dougall Posted October 9, 2012 Report Share Posted October 9, 2012 My understanding is that any pellet or pellets leaving your boundary and entering anothers where permission is not granted is in itself Armed Trespass.The onus of proof that it was you that fired those pellets is more difficult,although if you are the only shooter and there are other witnesses would be close to compelling. Carrying a gun in a slip where you have legal access is perfectly legal. atb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul223 Posted October 9, 2012 Author Report Share Posted October 9, 2012 thanks for the replies so far The Police would be VERY interested in any report of a "firearms" incident. Think about it......... There are no legal problems carrying a covered firearm over a private drive of which you have appropriate rights. yes Dekers i would expect the police to attend any reported firearms incident, however on learning the incident is spent shot falling out of the sky what would be the most likely out come? Will / can the police prosecute? PS I'm not in any trouble Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dougall Posted October 9, 2012 Report Share Posted October 9, 2012 Paul223, whats the full story? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul223 Posted October 9, 2012 Author Report Share Posted October 9, 2012 No story as such to tell Doug, just need to know the position for future reference, and before anyone jumps on me no I'm not intending to shoot with my shot landing else where or on other land, but rather may have a slightly agitated neighbour, who's land i have to cross! so i need to weigh a few things up Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted October 9, 2012 Report Share Posted October 9, 2012 ok the shot issue is minor, we have a dodgy neighbour who gets upset at any shooting nearby and tends to report in about shot falling on his house as he knows that gets a response. On that basis the officers who came out when I was rook shooting were polite helpful and purely suggested using a smaller caliber than a 12b I tried not to smile too much at that point. At no stage did they suggest any form of action and the simple fact of proof would require someone to find said shot and prove where it came from. On driven days we rarely consider it you are sensible but most country people know the effects are far less than hail. On the basis of the crossing a drive don't worry about it as long as you have a right to cross and a reason to have the gun with you then it doesn't even need to be slipped. If its an area of ongoing confrontation I might be tempted to slip it but there is no requirement to do so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dekers Posted October 9, 2012 Report Share Posted October 9, 2012 thanks for the replies so far yes Dekers i would expect the police to attend any reported firearms incident, however on learning the incident is spent shot falling out of the sky what would be the most likely out come? Will / can the police prosecute? PS I'm not in any trouble The police have many options should they attend, anything from having a friendly chat and a cup of tea with you to confiscating your guns and asking you to accompany them to the station for further discussion. This isn't a Black and White situation and hypothetical debate can go anywhere. Suffice to say you are on very thin ice with this one and you do not want any untoward dealings with the Police. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dougall Posted October 9, 2012 Report Share Posted October 9, 2012 Best advice, go and see neighbour,explain what you are doing and how conscious you are that you do not want to disturb him,tread on his toes etc...listen to his/her concerns(there will be reasons you don't know).......whatever your passed history I promise you this is the answer...Had 2 similar situations over the years,spent time and 2 x decent bottles of homemade sloe gin and both houses now good as gold when we shoot near those boundaries.One of the joys of shooting is to be in the countryside and be able to relax and take it in etc..this is just not possible when you have potential 'situations' whenever you shoot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul223 Posted October 9, 2012 Author Report Share Posted October 9, 2012 so back to this question on learning the incident is spent shot falling out of the sky what would be the most likely out come......... Will / can the police prosecute? or is it purely a civil matter? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul223 Posted October 9, 2012 Author Report Share Posted October 9, 2012 they are anti shooting Doug, not malicious or confrontational but never the less still anti shooting / hunting, i have spoke to them in the past and get on ok, but still i need to know Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted October 9, 2012 Report Share Posted October 9, 2012 its a civil matter according to BASC worth a call just to give the exact details though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dougall Posted October 9, 2012 Report Share Posted October 9, 2012 Ok,well it is up to the neighbours whether they call police and whether they wish to take it to prosecution. You must ensure shot does not fall on them/their property.Yes the police will attend,the most likely outcome would be a warning on the first occurence,if it happened again you could well face prosecution and forfeit your licence.It is not unreasonable from their point of view to not want to be disturbed by gunfire nor have shot landing on their tiles/cars etc..! They are also entitled to their view. If it were me I would still go and see them and tell what you are intending to do and why..pigeons eating my crops or whatever and re-assure them you shall respect their property.If you still feel that it is not possible to shoot this particualr piece of land without disturbing them/sprinkling them with shot then you should question whether this is an appropriate place to be shooting in the first place. atb. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dekers Posted October 9, 2012 Report Share Posted October 9, 2012 (edited) its a civil matter according to BASC worth a call just to give the exact details though. The mere act of lead falling "May" be Civil, the BIG BUT is that ANY reported damage isn't, that's just the same as you walking up to their car with a hammer and bashing hell out of it, that's Criminal! Lets not go the proof situation, and of course this whole thing is hypothetical! Edited October 9, 2012 by Dekers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted October 9, 2012 Report Share Posted October 9, 2012 the issue comes on driven days when even if you intend to shoot away from the house even a vertical shot on a windy day can result in shot being blown a fair distance. Its particularly noticeable if they have a conservatory. My mum occasionally moans about lead landing on hers on the estate I beat on but I do tend to point out how harmless it actually is. By the time you work on a 300 yard exclusion zone of any house footpath or road there aren't many places you could actually shoot in this country and be absolutely sure of not landing shot on anyone/ anything. Mentions of dented cars etc just show a complete lack of understanding about what it feels like to have lead land on you in normal shooting sizes, fundamentally its heavier than rain but less than hail. Dekers it won't do any form of damage unless you actually shoot at their property, I am sort of assuming Paul223 isn't going to stand there and loose off directly at their house from close range. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dekers Posted October 9, 2012 Report Share Posted October 9, 2012 (edited) the issue comes on driven days when even if you intend to shoot away from the house even a vertical shot on a windy day can result in shot being blown a fair distance. Its particularly noticeable if they have a conservatory. My mum occasionally moans about lead landing on hers on the estate I beat on but I do tend to point out how harmless it actually is. By the time you work on a 300 yard exclusion zone of any house footpath or road there aren't many places you could actually shoot in this country and be absolutely sure of not landing shot on anyone/ anything. Mentions of dented cars etc just show a complete lack of understanding about what it feels like to have lead land on you in normal shooting sizes, fundamentally its heavier than rain but less than hail. Dekers it won't do any form of damage unless you actually shoot at their property, I am sort of assuming Paul223 isn't going to stand there and loose off directly at their house from close range. No point in making assumptions and I have been hit with shot that broke the skin on my hand, if that had been my eye life would be very different now! Hail can dent cars, break windscreens car port roofs etc, so can shot, just because it doesn't generally is no excuse! What about the shot that ruined their exotic and very expensive garden plants by peppering the flowers and leaves, and the stuff that fell in the pond and poisoned the £2000 Carp. We live in a litigious world, and that is criminal Damage! Hypothetical though remember! Edited October 9, 2012 by Dekers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted October 9, 2012 Report Share Posted October 9, 2012 the shot that broke skin on your hand would have been fired in your direction, shot under the affect of gravity in usual sizes or 5 and 6 will not damage car paintwork, break windows or any other such nonsense. I've stood under enough of it while beating to have a vague idea its harmless, hypothetical is fine but we're talking game loads and a shotgun at range not something that can apply a decent density of lead shot to someones garden or pond. The only place you would stand any chance of finding a piece or two of shot would be in a gutter on the average house near any shooting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dekers Posted October 9, 2012 Report Share Posted October 9, 2012 (edited) the shot that broke skin on your hand would have been fired in your direction, shot under the affect of gravity in usual sizes or 5 and 6 will not damage car paintwork, break windows or any other such nonsense. I've stood under enough of it while beating to have a vague idea its harmless, hypothetical is fine but we're talking game loads and a shotgun at range not something that can apply a decent density of lead shot to someones garden or pond. The only place you would stand any chance of finding a piece or two of shot would be in a gutter on the average house near any shooting. Ha Ha You are making a lot of assumptions for this hypothetical event, I am simply outlining possibilities which you appear to have discounted! Good on you, I take it you will be his defence solicitor then! The fact that lead may not cause a problem 999 out of 1000 is no excuse if it did on the 1000 time. He pulled the trigger he is responsible. Keep your lead within your boundary! Edited October 9, 2012 by Dekers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul223 Posted October 9, 2012 Author Report Share Posted October 9, 2012 I would indeed be referring to bird size shot, 5 6 may even 7, iirc my physics teacher taught me that any object would reach max velocity in ten meters of free fall, so in theory catapulting a small hand full of size 6 in the air should replicate if I needed to do so (not that i need to). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robbiep Posted October 9, 2012 Report Share Posted October 9, 2012 'Terminal velocity' is very variable. assuming normal gravity, and a reasonable density (lead shot, for example) then the acceleration is 9.81m/s (squared). So after 1 second of freefall, the shot will be doing 9.81m/s (close to 20 mph), after 2 seconds, 19.62 m/s (40 mph). Now air resistance starts to take an effect. The rate of acceleration will slow, and as the velocity gets ever higher, that resistance will be ever greater. As an aside, the terminal velocity of a skydiver is reported as anywhere from 120-150 mph. (60-80 metres per second, approximately). Some interesting research here ... though not much in the way of the original reports quoted http://www.loadammo.com/Topics/March01.htm Though that was for rifle ammunition only. I'd assume that similar research has been done with shotguns, if it could be found ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted October 9, 2012 Report Share Posted October 9, 2012 whichever way it doesn't hurt when it lands on your head Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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