Thelongwayup Posted October 11, 2012 Report Share Posted October 11, 2012 Put my renewal in a while ago with my local force. Sorted my paperwork out etc and sent it back just before they sent me a reminder to get them back asap. The wording on it was a bit odd. I certainly don't class my firearms and shotguns as 'weapons'. Surely a weapon is something you would use in a fight or such and not an item used for sporting purposes? Before anyone thinks it I have no axe to grind with the police etc and to be honest, my FAO was brilliant and more interested in the sea fishing I do and the trip I went on. I just found the wording on the letter strange. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
worthy130 Posted October 11, 2012 Report Share Posted October 11, 2012 Guns are weapons, in whatever contex they are still weapons Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coolhead Posted October 11, 2012 Report Share Posted October 11, 2012 Guns are weapons, in whatever contex they are still weapons That's patently untrue. Is a Biathlon rifle designed to cause harm ? It suits the police to maintain an aura of danger, risk and that they are bestowing vast blessings by approving the ticket. The police will always use the word "weapon." That is unless it is they who are holding the baton, CS spray, taser, auto rifle etc. Bad for the jolly old public image and all that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dan-250 Posted October 11, 2012 Report Share Posted October 11, 2012 Instead of weapons they should just be classed as firearms. It sounds more professional, and is in better context. It is only a weapon in the wrong persons hands, it's not a weapon licence, so shouldnt be named that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wymberley Posted October 11, 2012 Report Share Posted October 11, 2012 Bravo, well said. I'll bet my bottom dollar that your FAC and SGC state firearms and shotguns respectively and that some numpty in the FLD is responsible for drafting the letter. I'd be inclined to write a nice letter to the guy who signed the certificates pointing this out. I don't suppose for one minute he intended for you to be legally in possession of several lethal weapons. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ordnance Posted October 11, 2012 Report Share Posted October 11, 2012 I am near sure they are described as firearms here on the renewal reminder. I could be wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pigeon pete Posted October 11, 2012 Report Share Posted October 11, 2012 when i did my RCO course the examiner said to us ,they are not weapons they are firearms ,weapons are used in war Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshwarrior Posted October 12, 2012 Report Share Posted October 12, 2012 Thames Balley used weapons not firearms I thought it looked odd glad it was not just me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vipa Posted October 12, 2012 Report Share Posted October 12, 2012 (edited) World English Dictionary weapon (ˈwɛpən) — n 1. an object or instrument used in fighting 2. anything that serves to outwit or get the better of an opponent: his power of speech was his best weapon 3. any part of an animal that is used to defend itself, to attack prey, etc, such as claws, teeth, horns, or a sting 4. a slang word for penis My rifles fit into categories 2 and probably 3 If I use my trumpet as a plant pot, it doesn't stop it being a musical instrument... A rifle was designed as a weapon in it's purest sense and that is it's primary design function, just because it is now used as a target rifle or carpet beater doesn't turn it into something else. If you don't want to call them weapons then don't but they still are! Edited October 12, 2012 by Vipa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coolhead Posted October 12, 2012 Report Share Posted October 12, 2012 World English Dictionary weapon (ˈwɛpən) — n 1. an object or instrument used in fighting 2. anything that serves to outwit or get the better of an opponent: his power of speech was his best weapon 3. any part of an animal that is used to defend itself, to attack prey, etc, such as claws, teeth, horns, or a sting 4. a slang word for penis My rifles fit into categories 2 and probably 3 If I use my trumpet as a plant pot, it doesn't stop it being a musical instrument... A rifle was designed as a weapon in it's purest sense and that is it's primary design function, just because it is now used as a target rifle or carpet beater doesn't turn it into something else. If you don't want to call them weapons then don't but they still are! So be it. You also eat your dinner with "Weapons" then. The Olympics is also mock combat with "weapons" too. If you bang someone on the head with your trumpet then it cannot possibly be a weapon as it wasn't designed as one. Your own dictionary quote proves it is clearly not design but intent that defines it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vipa Posted October 12, 2012 Report Share Posted October 12, 2012 (edited) A So be it. You also eat your dinner with "Weapons" then. The Olympics is also mock combat with "weapons" too. If you bang someone on the head with your trumpet then it cannot possibly be a weapon as it wasn't designed as one. Your own dictionary quote proves it is clearly not design but intent that defines it. Ahhh... now you are into the realm of symantics! A knife (and fork) was not specifically designed as a weapon... even back to ancient times flint and stone were fasioned as cutting tools AND as weapons... ALL projectile firing devices were originally invented and designed as weapons of war.. from canon onwards... they also tend to be jolly good at killing things other than humans As for your comment about the Olympics.... yes... the most obvious example being fencing. A tennis raquet can be used as a weapon but that doesn'r stop it being a tennis raquet... a weapon can be used as a cricket bat... doesn't stop it being a weapon. Almost anything can, with a little imagination, be used to do pretty much anything else... that does not stop it being what it was otiginally was! The dictionary definition states: 2. anything that serves to outwit or get the better of an opponent... as the deer is my opponent or prey, I think that fits I also think it applies to no 3... whilst we aren't blessed with built in tools for killing prey as are some animals, human ingenuity has created bolt on tools.. as the 'bolt on' tool is designed to attack prey, then yes, it is a weapon... What is the issue anyway... are you concerned about what people think of you based on what your guns are deemed to actually be? If that is the case then forget firearm or weapon, we should be calling them 'projectile deer harvesting devices!' or even better for the target boys... 'long range, single hole paper punches' Edited October 12, 2012 by Vipa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coolhead Posted October 12, 2012 Report Share Posted October 12, 2012 What is the issue anyway... are you concerned about what people think of you based on what your guns are deemed to actually be? If that is the case then forget firearm or weapon, we should be calling them 'projectile deer harvesting devices!' or even better for the target boys... 'long range, single hole paper punches' Seriously? You can't tell that emotive terms are being used incorrectly in order to elicit a specific response? Your confused self-contradictory statements aside, no-one has ever proposed creating euphemisms to avoid the truth. A weapon is not a weapon "because you say so," "Because it was derived from one" or "Because of the sins of its ancestors." I'm ending this conversation now the lack of a cogent alternative position renders it futile. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spanj Posted October 12, 2012 Report Share Posted October 12, 2012 A Ahhh... now you are into the realm of symantics! A knife (and fork) was not specifically designed as a weapon... even back to ancient times flint and stone were fasioned as cutting tools AND as weapons... ALL projectile firing devices were originally invented and designed as weapons of war.. from canon onwards... they also tend to be jolly good at killing things other than humans As for your comment about the Olympics.... yes... the most obvious example being fencing. A tennis raquet can be used as a weapon but that doesn'r stop it being a tennis raquet... a weapon can be used as a cricket bat... doesn't stop it being a weapon. Almost anything can, with a little imagination, be used to do pretty much anything else... that does not stop it being what it was otiginally was! The dictionary definition states: 2. anything that serves to outwit or get the better of an opponent... as the deer is my opponent or prey, I think that fits I also think it applies to no 3... whilst we aren't blessed with built in tools for killing prey as are some animals, human ingenuity has created bolt on tools.. as the 'bolt on' tool is designed to attack prey, then yes, it is a weapon... What is the issue anyway... are you concerned about what people think of you based on what your guns are deemed to actually be? If that is the case then forget firearm or weapon, we should be calling them 'projectile deer harvesting devices!' or even better for the target boys... 'long range, single hole paper punches' coughs............... semantics Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vipa Posted October 12, 2012 Report Share Posted October 12, 2012 coughs............... semantics Curse you lack of spell check! :yp: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harnser Posted October 12, 2012 Report Share Posted October 12, 2012 (edited) I have a number of sporting shotguns and sporting rifles . I have never reffered to them as weapons . Weapons in my opinion are used in an offensive or defensive situation . I generally refer to my sporting shotguns and rifles as "guns " . Harnser . Edited October 12, 2012 by Harnser Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harnser Posted October 12, 2012 Report Share Posted October 12, 2012 (edited) Guns are weapons, in whatever contex they are still weapons Absolutely not true . Most people who buy a hatsan hatstand use them for forge pokers or fence pole hammers . Harnser Edited October 12, 2012 by Harnser Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vipa Posted October 12, 2012 Report Share Posted October 12, 2012 Seriously? You can't tell that emotive terms are being used incorrectly in order to elicit a specific response? Your confused self-contradictory statements aside, no-one has ever proposed creating euphemisms to avoid the truth. A weapon is not a weapon "because you say so," "Because it was derived from one" or "Because of the sins of its ancestors." I'm ending this conversation now the lack of a cogent alternative position renders it futile. As the law in the uk defines a firearm as 'any lethal barrelled weapon.....' you obviously don't need a ticket for yours as they won't fit the description Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pigeon pete Posted October 12, 2012 Report Share Posted October 12, 2012 (edited) just to put my bit in a GUN is a smooth bore tube a rifle was a gun but had rifling put into the bore thus called a rifle ;-) Edited October 12, 2012 by pigeon pete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bedwards1966 Posted October 12, 2012 Report Share Posted October 12, 2012 I think I'd be inclined to get a highlighter and draw a big, obvious circle round the 'weapons', with a note saying 'firearms, not weapons' or something to that effect, and send it back to them. I hate to see any firearm described as a 'weapon' in any way, unless it has actually been used as a weapon. It gives people the wrong views on them, and simply isn't OK - and I don't think that the police constantly referring to them this way is in any way accidental. We should all do our best to point out, where appropriate, that they are simply tools. For some strange reason, nobody calls a baseball bat a weapon - yet I think that thugs use them in relation to crime far more than they do with any firearms. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clayduster Posted October 13, 2012 Report Share Posted October 13, 2012 I would say it was just badly worded without intent, If the writer is ex forces or police firearms they will always refer to firearms as weapons as they do so to each other on a daily basis. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Imperfection Posted October 13, 2012 Report Share Posted October 13, 2012 Absolutely not true . Most people who buy a hatsan hatstand use them for forge pokers or fence pole hammers . Harnser That might be true in Norfolk where the gene pool is like a tear drop,but round here we tend to use them as toasting forks. Anyway,a weapon in my opinion is a device or object which you intend to cause harm/death to another. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MiLisCer Posted October 13, 2012 Report Share Posted October 13, 2012 It is as simple as the firearms act terms them all as Weapons - thus this is why it is used - some people have far too much time on their hands and spend to much time moaning about anything and everything on internet forums. Get a grip. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VikingRebel Posted October 14, 2012 Report Share Posted October 14, 2012 This line is somewhat interesting. ...it will then be your responsibility to dispose of your weapons. So would they actually follow up to see if you really had disposed of them? Whats to stop an unscrupulous type just burying their guns in the garden and then claiming to have disposed of them? "Have you disposed of all your firearms sir?" "Yes officer, i took them to a mate of mine who is a scrap dealer who melted them all down for me, honest." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mr salt Posted October 14, 2012 Report Share Posted October 14, 2012 iam with dan 250 on this one. gun laws do not ever seem to stop guns ,weapons or firearms from getting into the wrong hands.(however you word it) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Breastman Posted October 15, 2012 Report Share Posted October 15, 2012 (edited) This is also a pet peeve of mine Most dictionaries define a weapon as something which is designed or is used for offensive or defensive purposes, no Section 1 or 2 firearms (that i'm aware of) are put on certificate for either (N.B. I am of course refering to use against other humans, not animals), although of course they can be used in such a way, but IMO they do not become weapons until that point. Although i'm partial to a bit of tin-foil-hattery when it comes to this subject i think the reason why S1 & S2 guns are still referred to as weapons is more historical, rather than the police/government trying to keep up fear against them. When firearms legislation was first drawn up firearms could still be owned for self-defence and therefore the description of them being 'weapons' was accurate, the 'language' of the legislation just hasn't been updated. Edited October 15, 2012 by Breastman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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