Electric collar dog training.

[rimfire4969]

I am not intending this to be the rights or wrongs of the use of an electric collar, I am more interested in the how you boys with these collars would use them with this issue I have at the moment. Also any help from the non collar people.

 

My springer 5 years old has developed a running in problem, she stops on the whistle and comes back on recall very well, until she gets close to a bird then she is off like an arrow. Once the bird is flushed she returns straight away. I guy on my shoot has told me an electric collar would cure her quickly. I am doing it the old way at the moment, doing plenty of recall and stop training which is great until we see a bird.

 

Any ideas would be very helpful, I am hoping as the season rolls with the extra training on she will calm down. Fingers crossed.

[Bloggs]

Rimfire, I've been looking at these as well. We've got a few issues with our ten month old GSD, mainly going mental when she's in the car as soon as she sees other dogs. Obviously trying to control her whilst driving is not only very wrong but almost impossible. I did watch the Caesar Malone series on dog training and he did use said item in a couple of episodes where he was trying to control a dogs behaviour at distance.

Sorry I've had no useful input to your thread but I am also very interested in this subject...

Thanks for starting :-)

[kent]

not the situation for collar use, unless you want to run the risk of 1.the dog avoiding / ignooring pheasant (becoming quite useless in the field to a pheasant shooter) 2. refusing to retrieve runners on pheasant.

 

my advice is wing tie( or similar) a few and correct the dog when both you and it are close in using traditional correction. sounds like the stop wistle needs some work though as its not fully home or she has learnt over time it can be ignoored. A spaniel should be expected and trained to drop to shot and drop to flush in this case it aint even reliable to drop to wistle, so i suggest you get on with it and forget quick fixes. Yes zapping the dog should stop it- but other damage can be done very quickly (quick to train quick to spoil).

 

I think if it were my dog i should get it out dogging in on a long check dropping it to flush each time, the rest of the time i should spend on various stop drills like on the run out etc,'etc. remembering all the time to reward the desired result well and instant on the spot correction for the rest

[kent]

Rimfire, I've been looking at these as well. We've got a few issues with our ten month old GSD, mainly going mental when she's in the car as soon as she sees other dogs. Obviously trying to control her whilst driving is not only very wrong but almost impossible. I did watch the Caesar Malone series on dog training and he did use said item in a couple of episodes where he was trying to control a dogs behaviour at distance.

Sorry I've had no useful input to your thread but I am also very interested in this subject...

Thanks for starting :-)

 

Thats an ideal use of the collar! condition it for a few weeks into it being just another collar thingy. Then and only then take it for a drive, do not pay any attention to the barking just zap it in secret. Repeate the exersize until the dog don't do it for at least a week and dont let it develop again. The dog must not connect you, the collar or the remote in this whole thing or the effect is way less powerfull. To the dog its car+ manic barking= zap!

Its of primary importance the collar and handset are charged,functional and at an oppropriate power level to get the "what the heck was that" response from the dog. You dont want to fry it or have so lowe a correction level the dog dont notice it when its gander is up

[rimfire4969]

not the situation for collar use, unless you want to run the risk of 1.the dog avoiding / ignooring pheasant (becoming quite useless in the field to a pheasant shooter) 2. refusing to retrieve runners on pheasant.

 

my advice is wing tie( or similar) a few and correct the dog when both you and it are close in using traditional correction. sounds like the stop wistle needs some work though as its not fully home or she has learnt over time it can be ignoored. A spaniel should be expected and trained to drop to shot and drop to flush in this case it aint even reliable to drop to wistle, so i suggest you get on with it and forget quick fixes. Yes zapping the dog should stop it- but other damage can be done very quickly (quick to train quick to spoil).

 

I think if it were my dog i should get it out dogging in on a long check dropping it to flush each time, the rest of the time i should spend on various stop drills like on the run out etc,'etc. remembering all the time to reward the desired result well and instant on the spot correction for the rest

Thanks, that's the kind of input I was looking for. Could you give me some more info on stop drills.

[fuzzypigeon]

I would say arrange a day with a professional trainer with the use of the rabbit pen this way the dog has plenty of opportunity to hunt n flush n the trainer can guide u on both your and the dogs needs

Edited November 2, 2012 by fuzzypigeon

[Bloggs]

 

 

Thats an ideal use of the collar! condition it for a few weeks into it being just another collar thingy. Then and only then take it for a drive, do not pay any attention to the barking just zap it in secret. Repeate the exersize until the dog don't do it for at least a week and dont let it develop again. The dog must not connect you, the collar or the remote in this whole thing or the effect is way less powerfull. To the dog its car+ manic barking= zap!

Its of primary importance the collar and handset are charged,functional and at an oppropriate power level to get the "what the heck was that" response from the dog. You dont want to fry it or have so lowe a correction level the dog dont notice it when its gander is up

 

Kent, thanks for your post mate - I think it's got to be worth a try. Our other GSD that has never barked in the car at other dogs is now doing it too - it's very frustrating apart from the barking nearly bursting my ear drums! Lol

[working dog]

If you are thinking of buying or using an e collar its worth watching Leerburgs DVD on how to use it. Once you get beyond his ego and self promotion there is some useful advice on the DVD

[Actionpigeons]

I would say arrange a day with a professional trainer with the use of the rabbit pen this way the dog has plenty of opportunity to hunt n flush n the trainer can guide u on both your and the dogs needs

as above or try a dragged line Edited November 2, 2012 by Actionpigeons

[Ant8681]

I went with a guy on our shoot who runs a gundog traing course, its in bodmin and i found it invalueable! let me know if you want any details

[-ben-]

I used a electric collar with my strong willed lab it was getting to the point of considering rehoming her. Best money I've ever spent on her only ever got shocked a couple of times on the lowest setting just the bleep was enough to get her attention back. She's now a lovely gundog I had the canicom one because of the sound aswell as the shock. I had the problem of her running in and she had a thing about deers .

[bruno22rf]

Not the same probs as you but we re-homed a spanner that has obviousley been semi-trained.Huge problem was getting her to return when she was too far out to control,she would just keep running till we lost sight of her and I spent hours trying top find her.Despite hating the thought of an electric collar I eventually bought one,to be honest,just to gain satisfaction when she ran away.We got one new on the Bay that whistles/buzzes or shocks and the thing was like a miracle cure.As she begins to go too far we push the whistle button and 9 times out of 10 this does the trick-if it doesn't then a buzz is akin to building an instant brick wall in her path,we have not needed the shock at all.After 2-3 weeks we show her the collar and make it buzz,then we put it behind her head and swop it for a normal collar and she is none the wiser.Best £15 I have ever spent.

[Elby]

I wouldn't use one in these circs.

I think once you have to use one you have lost.

I would use a check cord if I was you (a lot cheaper than a collar too).

3m one should do, when the dog runs in blow the recall, if it don't turn it's head to come back yank the check cord hard.

[kent]

Not the same probs as you but we re-homed a spanner that has obviousley been semi-trained.Huge problem was getting her to return when she was too far out to control,she would just keep running till we lost sight of her and I spent hours trying top find her.Despite hating the thought of an electric collar I eventually bought one,to be honest,just to gain satisfaction when she ran away.We got one new on the Bay that whistles/buzzes or shocks and the thing was like a miracle cure.As she begins to go too far we push the whistle button and 9 times out of 10 this does the trick-if it doesn't then a buzz is akin to building an instant brick wall in her path,we have not needed the shock at all.After 2-3 weeks we show her the collar and make it buzz,then we put it behind her head and swop it for a normal collar and she is none the wiser.Best £15 I have ever spent.

 

thats a sticking plaster fix IMO. the dog runs off for a reason (probebly coz some fool started the chase me game with it). Again wrong use of collar IMO

[kent]

 

Thanks, that's the kind of input I was looking for. Could you give me some more info on stop drills.

 

Not realy because you need to be hands on to see the "why". Bluntly is it you or the dog? if its the dog -why? If its you -why? If the dog has never realy been trained to stop to flush or stop to wistle thats a different matter as you ask about drills i suspect that might just be the case?

[kent]

 

 

Kent, thanks for your post mate - I think it's got to be worth a try. Our other GSD that has never barked in the car at other dogs is now doing it too - it's very frustrating apart from the barking nearly bursting my ear drums! Lol

 

Listen if you do this coorectly (remember no connection to you via your reactions etc or the collar through a familurisation process) and engineer the flare up - IT WILL WORK! Do it first for the main culprit and each other dog one at a time, dont mix them in the car till they are all 100% sorted and you must correct at every ocasion

[al4x]

 

 

thats a sticking plaster fix IMO. the dog runs off for a reason (probebly coz some fool started the chase me game with it). Again wrong use of collar IMO

 

How is it a sticking plaster when it's sorted the problem?

[rimfire4969]

 

 

Not realy because you need to be hands on to see the "why". Bluntly is it you or the dog? if its the dog -why? If its you -why? If the dog has never realy been trained to stop to flush or stop to wistle thats a different matter as you ask about drills i suspect that might just be the case?

Kent,

I appreciate your input, but you do seem to very very hard on everyone. My dog is not perfect and i apologise to you if this causes you some issues. She stops well on the whistle and recalls well, the last time I was out she did something out of the normal, I was advised that a collar would "sort that dog out" now I don't have a collar and am not thinking about buying one. I was just after an opinion on how these collars worked. I have had gundogs for many years some good some ok and always used old style methods of training. I asked for some drills as I am no expert and always happy to learn new ways. If you fancy getting off your high horse anytime soon I would still like that advise.

Rimmy

[cracker]

Some folk feel like merely owning HPRs, especially the German breeds, is licence to mount a high horse. I don't think Kent's into those stirrups, he's just giving it to you candidly as to how he sees it. Coming from somebody - me - for whom the e-collar is integral to a training programme and who has put in years of such correct use for training and not preventive purposes, let's have it known that Kent's advice on the e-collar in situations as described by the original poster is bull's-eye. Lighten up on him for how he speaks his piece - he's offering help and is generous in so doing.

 

MG

[rimfire4969]

Some folk feel like merely owning HPRs, especially the German breeds, is licence to mount a high horse. I don't think Kent's into those stirrups, he's just giving it to you candidly as to how he sees it. Coming from somebody - me - for whom the e-collar is integral to a training programme and who has put in years of such correct use for training and not preventive purposes, let's have it known that Kent's advice on the e-collar in situations as described by the original poster is bull's-eye. Lighten up on him for how he speaks his piece - he's offering help and is generous in so doing.

 

MG

Once again as I said before I appreciate advise. I don't appreciate the way it's said. I have no problem with Kent but I do think its maybe him you needs to loosen his collar for us mere mortals.

 

That said its over and done. Back to electric collars.

[kent]

 

Kent,

I appreciate your input, but you do seem to very very hard on everyone. My dog is not perfect and i apologise to you if this causes you some issues. She stops well on the whistle and recalls well, the last time I was out she did something out of the normal, I was advised that a collar would "sort that dog out" now I don't have a collar and am not thinking about buying one. I was just after an opinion on how these collars worked. I have had gundogs for many years some good some ok and always used old style methods of training. I asked for some drills as I am no expert and always happy to learn new ways. If you fancy getting off your high horse anytime soon I would still like that advise.

Rimmy

 

if you saw my reply as curt it wasn't meant to be just direct and truthfull, its a forum and replys are often best short and to the point. Stopping drills are many and various but to start with does the dog understand it............. like i say better hands on

[kent]

Some folk feel like merely owning HPRs, especially the German breeds, is licence to mount a high horse. I don't think Kent's into those stirrups, he's just giving it to you candidly as to how he sees it. Coming from somebody - me - for whom the e-collar is integral to a training programme and who has put in years of such correct use for training and not preventive purposes, let's have it known that Kent's advice on the e-collar in situations as described by the original poster is bull's-eye. Lighten up on him for how he speaks his piece - he's offering help and is generous in so doing.

 

MG

 

 

 

thanks, i have broad shoulders and can take it. We will most likely loose these tools in England shortly already they are illegal now in Wales- in fairness people just dont understand them and those who understand the least have the biggest tendancy to need to call on them for all and sundry useage. I have used them, i do own one, i have made my mistakes, i have had my sucesses . It must be hell training people to train dogs as for some reason some of us have less broad shoulders and ask for answers but cannot handle the answers ( i must remember to pussy foot and become less clear with more ambiguouity).

 

Darn, i cannot tease you about 'lectric collars now you know the facts!

[kent]

 

 

How is it a sticking plaster when it's sorted the problem?

 

My good friend read the post again, the problem aint sorted "9 out of 10 times" , "we show her the collar". "Spend ages trying to find her"- great game bet the dog loves it!

[Nikk]

Hi I've used an e-collar to fix various problems. They are a great tool in the right hands but you could easily cause more problems inadvertantly. Why not try an anti-bark collar first?

[tigger]

I have seen these things stop certain problems in dogs in an instant, and once you have gained control you then have something to work from, I've seen dogs that were prone to chasing/running in, who in a training cituation were damn near perfect but get them in a proper shooting,picking up,beating situation fall apart these traits have been caused by impatient owners wanting to get there dogs working to quickly before there ready which in turn there training was not adequate enough and here are the results, to many people are to impatient to wait until there dog is ready , after using said collar a couple of times these problems basically stopped two of the three people who used them don't no more as it basically cured there problem the other who I was beating with today as a matter of fact is coming along nicely so they are not all bad but they are if you don't no what your doing with them as simple as that......