kent Posted November 19, 2012 Report Share Posted November 19, 2012 a second hand 20bore should be the same or less as the 12 but they aint, thats supply and demand. A 16 bore English gun will cost pro rata less than a 12 again supply and demand. The second hand twenty is inflated we all know that and the 16 is cheap because there aint people queing up to buy them in prefference over the popular 12 and the 20. You can hardly give away a nice single 12 yet make it a .410 and its gone in a trice. way it is mate, the way it is Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave-G Posted November 19, 2012 Report Share Posted November 19, 2012 They don't though Alex. Dogs are sold at the price they should be and £50 extra is added on for a bitch, everybody knows it and saying dogs are discounted because they are dogs is bs sorry. Bottom line is (and I've said this many times now) it costs the breeder exactly the same to get a bitch to 8 weeks as it does a dog. They should be the same price end of Well that's seemingly just your opinion and yer seriously out voted. Just because YOU say they should be the same price obviously don't make it right - and many have said as much many times now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elby Posted November 20, 2012 Author Report Share Posted November 20, 2012 Well that's seemingly just your opinion and yer seriously out voted. Just because YOU say they should be the same price obviously don't make it right - and many have said as much many times now. And they are wrong as are robbing breeders Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elby Posted November 20, 2012 Author Report Share Posted November 20, 2012 a second hand 20bore should be the same or less as the 12 but they aint, thats supply and demand. A 16 bore English gun will cost pro rata less than a 12 again supply and demand. The second hand twenty is inflated we all know that and the 16 is cheap because there aint people queing up to buy them in prefference over the popular 12 and the 20. You can hardly give away a nice single 12 yet make it a .410 and its gone in a trice. way it is mate, the way it is What???I don't need a lesson in supply & demand. You are talking about second hand stuff and not even like for like (12 bore & 20 bore) Talk about two guns brand new & the same model costing the same to produce and then we talking a on level ground Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted November 20, 2012 Report Share Posted November 20, 2012 so which do you find sells first dogs or bitches? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elby Posted November 20, 2012 Author Report Share Posted November 20, 2012 (edited) so which do you find sells first dogs or bitches? It varies AlexOver the years I've probably bred 15 litters of springers & labs. It's normally **** law, when I have more dogs than bitches everyone wants bitches and visa versa the swearing check just tooks out s o d s Edited November 20, 2012 by Elby Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catweazle Posted November 20, 2012 Report Share Posted November 20, 2012 What has the breeders cost got to do with it ? It costs as much to raise a 3 legged dog as a 4 legged one, doesn't mean it's worth as much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elby Posted November 20, 2012 Author Report Share Posted November 20, 2012 If I'm wrong I'm wrong but I doubt it. Look at it this way, you have a pregnant bitch, leading up to the puppies being born you'll do a bit of research and see what they are selling for. So you decide say you will ask £450 a pup. When they are born you have 8 pups, 6 dogs & 2 bitches. Do you guys thing the breeder thinks oh **** I'll have to discount the dogs and sell them for £400 each? What has the breeders cost got to do with it ? It costs as much to raise a 3 legged dog as a 4 legged one, doesn't mean it's worth as much. Sorry but that's a stupid comparrisson Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WGD Posted November 20, 2012 Report Share Posted November 20, 2012 Elby - your argument stems from what pups cost the breeder to rear. If the cost of a product was directly related to the cost of production across the board then the cost of living would reduce dramatically. Unfortunately the marketplace and demand drives prices. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elby Posted November 20, 2012 Author Report Share Posted November 20, 2012 Elby - your argument stems from what pups cost the breeder to rear. If the cost of a product was directly related to the cost of production across the board then the cost of living would reduce dramatically. Unfortunately the marketplace and demand drives prices. Sorry but I can't agree with that neither.The cost to produce something does relate to the cost of the product, then the manufacturer puts on a bit and makes a profit. If they didn't they would go bust, if the cost to produce something costs more than people are prepared to pay then no one will buy and the company goes bust. Everybody can make comparrissons and some make sense and some don't. Bottom line is IMO it's wrong for breeders to charge extra for a bitch and I don't believe for 1 minute they discount dogs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted November 20, 2012 Report Share Posted November 20, 2012 they charge more for bitches purely because they can, if the price was wrong they wouldn't sell. Thats the supply and demand bit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elby Posted November 20, 2012 Author Report Share Posted November 20, 2012 they charge more for bitches purely because they can, if the price was wrong they wouldn't sell. Thats the supply and demand bit no mate that's profiteering.They know you want a bitch so charge extra. Anyway guys we aint never gonna agree on this and it's a circular argument. I vote with my wallet and as soon as I see an add where the dogs are priced different to the bitches (even if i wanted a dog) I walk away. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted November 20, 2012 Report Share Posted November 20, 2012 And this my friends is how comunist dictatorships start, yet we know how they tend to finish with the party faithfull driving rollers and the poor being further opressed and trapped in poverty LOL. Elby the second hand gun market is very lead by supply you cannot just produce another from thin air and neither can you pursade a 20 bore shopper to take a lightweight 12 and fire lighter loads because they are generally better value- try convincing someone who realy wants a bitch to take a dog, if they are realy not fussed the extra £50 for a bitch helps the foot in both camps buyer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave-G Posted November 20, 2012 Report Share Posted November 20, 2012 Yawn. Profitteering is making a profit. He will possibly have to decrease his profit margin for the dogs and make it back up on the bitches. Actually it might cost more to keep a three legged dog than a four if vet bills come into the equation. Do you think he would get the same price for his three legged dog as the other dogs? The owner wants a decent profit across the entire litter. You won't be buying many bitches but - do you think the owner won't find a buyer? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elby Posted November 20, 2012 Author Report Share Posted November 20, 2012 And this my friends is how comunist dictatorships start, yet we know how they tend to finish with the party faithfull driving rollers and the poor being further opressed and trapped in poverty LOL. Elby the second hand gun market is very lead by supply you cannot just produce another from thin air and neither can you pursade a 20 bore shopper to take a lightweight 12 and fire lighter loads because they are generally better value- try convincing someone who realy wants a bitch to take a dog, if they are realy not fussed the extra £50 for a bitch helps the foot in both camps buyer Do you read what you write?That makes absolutely no sense at all. *** have 20 bores ect got to do with pups or persuading people what sex of pup to choose. I'm not for one minute saying people should be asked to buy something they don't want and by your reckoning if someone came and told me they wanted a dog I should up the price so it's the same as the price for a bitch just because I know they want one Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elby Posted November 20, 2012 Author Report Share Posted November 20, 2012 Yawn. Profitteering is making a profit. He will possibly have to decrease his profit margin for the dogs and make it back up on the bitches. Actually it might cost more to keep a three legged dog than a four if vet bills come into the equation. Do you think he would get the same price for his three legged dog as the other dogs? The owner wants a decent profit across the entire litter. You won't be buying many bitches but - do you think the owner won't find a buyer? Double yawnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnNo you idiot I don't think you should ask more for a 3 legged dog cos it aint fit for purpose is it. I've never had any problems selling my pups and they are priced the same (other than the 3 legged ones which I'd sell to an idiot) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vixen. Posted November 20, 2012 Report Share Posted November 20, 2012 Have to agree with the supply and demand part. Bitches are popular and the facts are there's money in them in terms of pups (opportunity to line them with a credible dog ££££) so by offering the dog pups slightly cheaper you're making them desirable as generally they can be harder to shift - how many ads do you see with "2 dogs left" etc.? But all the bitches have gone regardless of the heightened price - society is dictating this it's not solely the breeders fault . RE a dog being as valuable as a bitch? --- Unless you see someones dog do it's business in the field to a high standard week in week out you probably aren't going to put your bitch to an 'anything' dog - unless you're clueless/breeding solely for profit and don't care what dog does it so where's the return in a dog? - people will sooner send them to be served by a champion/winner. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave C Posted November 20, 2012 Report Share Posted November 20, 2012 Bitches worth more as you can breed a litter from a bitch...... Same with most livestock...... In fact I can't think of a mamal where the male is worth more? Ferrets perhaps? Racing Greyhound dogs are worth more than bitches. Dave. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave-G Posted November 21, 2012 Report Share Posted November 21, 2012 (edited) Double yawnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn No you idiot I don't think you should ask more for a 3 legged dog cos it aint fit for purpose is it. I've never had any problems selling my pups and they are priced the same (other than the 3 legged ones which I'd sell to an idiot) You started this ranting thread with the question: "Can someone explain to me why this is" You got several explanations - and are out opinioned by about 15 to 1 - that makes you the idiot mister. Edited November 21, 2012 by Dave-G Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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