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......in general its 2 paces extra for .20 and five extra for .177 hardly earth shattering.......

 

I feel I need to clarify the range advantage that .177 gives, as I think you get more like 8 yards extra (if you believe Chairgun that is). I know my POI will be within 1/2" of centre from 10-40 yards with a 35 yard zero, but for a .22 to do the same you would need a zero of 28 yards which gives you an effective range of 7-32 yards.

 

Even so, 8 yards may not seem much on the face of it but in percentage terms thats a 25% increase in range! When you are 40 yards away on open ground with no cover and you need to get 8 yards farther for a shot with a .22 you would really appreciate that extra 25% that .177 gives you.

 

Quite frankly though, you should use whatever you feel most confident with as both will only do what you can make it do. That also applies to what rifle you go for, the one that feels best in the hand will probably give you the best results.

Edited by FalconFN

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"Ultra reliable ,hunting & PCP dont you together in my experience"? You must have experienced some weird and wonderfull equipment then me old mucker.I would put PCP hunters at least 5 times more common than those who use springers so there must be a shed load of puffgunners out there that need to see the light if your opinions are credible.Fact-if you cannot hunt succesfully with an on par PCP in .177 calibre and you think that changing to a springer .22 is the answer then something is going wrong.I,ve been hunting with PCP's since the days of the SM100 and I have never suffered any form of breakdown,so long as you look after your gun it should outlive you.

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Lets face it, the biggest limiting factor in any Air Arms, Weihrauch, Daystate, or lots of other guns ... is the person firing it.

The OP has asked for recommendations for a PCP. Has also asked whether .22 or .177 would be better.

 

Either a .177 or a .22 will kill equally efficiently as a headshot. The .177 will fly flatter, due to the lightness and additional speed of the pellet (basic Newtonian physics). A .22 pellet is heavier, so slower, so is more 'loopy'.

Whether PCP, gas ram, springer, whatever, if it is non-FAC then it is going to have virtually the same killing power, as long as it is 10ft/lb or slightly more. Some will be 11.5. The difference is marginal.

 

I personally don't use a PCP, though I've toyed with the idea on occasions. For me, an air rifle sits in the house a lot of the time, but when I do pick it up, I don't want to be faffing about checking air levels, topping up from a dive bottle, worrying about battery life, etc. So for me, a HW77K in .22 is ideal. Underlever, heavy, cloverleafs at 30 yds. With the 4* scope on it, it's accounted for plenty of rabbits, jackdaws and magpies already.

but that's me. The OPs requirements are different.

 

As suggested by plenty already, go for for a HW or an AA. .177 or .22, it'll make minimal difference. Try a few guns at a range if you can, and see what you like. The cocking systems can vary a lot

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As all of the above will be, the following is my personal opinion, established through my experiences in the field and on the targets.

 

.177 is easier to shoot, especially if your range judgement isn't spot on. It is also as lethal as .22. Yes, the .22 is a bigger heavier pellet that carries more energy, and yes, the .177 can sometimes punch through, but I've yet to see a cleanly through head shot rabbit run away. It doesn't matter whether the pellet destroys the brain or tears 50% of it out the other side, the end result is a dead rabbit. Accuracy is everything, if it's in the right place the rabbit will be killed and I find that more consistently achieved with .177.

 

I've had Air Arms S400, Daystates Mk3, BSA's Ultra, a Logun S16s, and a couple of others in various flavours. I regretted selling the S400, it was astonishingly accurate and easy to shoot. I've now settled on a AirArms S510 in .177. It's fantastic and I'd happily recommend it or the S400/410 over any of the others.

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thanks for the replies so far,I want a PCP as i've had a .177 CO2 which i got on well with,but the power dropped off to often resulting in poor hits,so i bought a springer .22,but muzzle flip and the noise,put me off,so I figured the best option is a .177 PCP,I went and had a look and the HW100 feels good in the shoulder,but please keep up the advise as everyone perspective is helpful.

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The only bad thing I've heard said about the HW's is about their weight. I have shot but not owned one so I can't comment on how much of an issue that extra weight may be when you've carried it around for a couple of hours, very accurate gun though.

Edited by -Mongrel-

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Have a look at Hatsan`s web site.

Has I said in my earlier reply.

AT 44 10 W is very good i have one and its brilliant.

Comes with 2 x 10 shot mags air gauge and a Walther match barrel.

The new BT 65 is a big beast of a gun.

Comes with 2 x 10 shot mags air gauge and a Walther match barrel.

Try lots of Rifles and find what feels right when you shoulder it.

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The only bad thing I've heard said about the HW's is about their weight. I have shot but not owned one so I can't comment on how much of an issue that extra weight may be when you've carried it around for a couple of hours, very accurate gun though.

 

+ 1 on the weight,daystate huntsman all day in either .177 or .22, failing that than the AAs410 or 510,if you get any of these you will not be dissapointed at all,,the HW100 is defo too heavy to catty round all day in the field but would be perfect on a bipod,but that would add xtra weight if carrying round,

 

kill bunnies at 80yrds,,you must be mad taking shots with an air rifle at that distance i would not attempt a rabbit at more than 50 fac or not,,thats my opinion,i want a clean kill not a wounding

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kill bunnies at 80yrds,,you must be mad taking shots with an air rifle at that distance i would not attempt a rabbit at more than 50 fac or not,,thats my opinion,i want a clean kill not a wounding

Agreed. 80 yrds is pushing it, a lot.

 

Oh, and yes. The HWs are scary heavy. But really built to last. With minimal care, I can easily see my 25 yr old HW77K outlasting me.

Edited by robbiep

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If you want a lightweight rifle that oozes quality,has plenty of shots per charge then take a closer look at the Daystate Huntsman Classic in .177.Beautiful rifle!

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I have a Daystate Huntsman FTR.

And out of all 10 of my PCP Rifles it`s the most accurate.

Hit`s 5 pence pieces at 70 yds every time.

is that FAC? or sub 12?

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I have a Daystate Huntsman FTR.

And out of all 10 of my PCP Rifles it`s the most accurate.

Hit`s 5 pence pieces at 70 yds every time.

Now, I'm not calling you a liar.

But if you're that good, how about a photo of all the trophies and medals you've won. Because that is international standard

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The Daystate is set at 11.95 ftlb. Using .177 RWS Superfields.

The Rifle is amazing it is so accurate.

I have been shooting for over 40 years and doing pest control for the last 20 years.

12 years in the Military is were i really learned to shoot.

Has said the Rifle is a Field Target Rifle and with the Superfields it`s excellent.

Has said i have 9 other quality pcps and they are not as accurate has the Daystate FTR.

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The Daystate is set at 11.95 ftlb. Using .177 RWS Superfields.

The Rifle is amazing it is so accurate.

I have been shooting for over 40 years and doing pest control for the last 20 years.

12 years in the Military is were i really learned to shoot.

Has said the Rifle is a Field Target Rifle and with the Superfields it`s excellent.

Has said i have 9 other quality pcps and they are not as accurate has the Daystate FTR.

 

If your gun is set that high you could find yourself in a spot of bother mate if the police use a heavier pellet in it during a test.... ??? ???

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It come`s down with heavier pellets. (ie) Bisley Mags at 10.5 gn 11.2 ftlb.

It`s legal has are the rest of my non FAC Rifles.

And Manchester FAD only test a gun with the pellets it was seized with.

Let`s face it with what`s on the market these day`s you can get a gun to go over 12 ftlb.

I had an old peace of Chinese **** that was doing 10 ftlb. I put power lube down the barrel and a few drop`s in the breech port. Thunderbolt pellets and it was doing 12.8 ftlb before I scrapped it.

It didn`t look to good after a 7 ton Tractor ran over it. It was only the farm gun.

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yeah, then you would be able to take headshots at about 1000 yds at least!!!!!

 

 

Are you trying to say that you cant cleanly shoot a rabbit in the head at 80 yds (73 metres) with an AA S410 FAC?..... 'Cause Ive more than a few in the freezer that might disagree with you!

 

:hmm:

 

 

http://youtu.be/oaWcLdGdGXE

Edited by peek-at

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I feel I need to clarify the range advantage that .177 gives, as I think you get more like 8 yards extra (if you believe Chairgun that is). I know my POI will be within 1/2" of centre from 10-40 yards with a 35 yard zero, but for a .22 to do the same you would need a zero of 28 yards which gives you an effective range of 7-32 yards.

 

Even so, 8 yards may not seem much on the face of it but in percentage terms thats a 25% increase in range! When you are 40 yards away on open ground with no cover and you need to get 8 yards farther for a shot with a .22 you would really appreciate that extra 25% that .177 gives you.

 

Quite frankly though, you should use whatever you feel most confident with as both will only do what you can make it do. That also applies to what rifle you go for, the one that feels best in the hand will probably give you the best results.

 

I dont it was never meant to be spot on and it depends on many things how you make best use of trajectory

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Are you trying to say that you cant shoot a rabbit in the head at 80 yds with an AA S410 FAC? 'Cause Ive more than a few in the freezer that might disagree with you!

 

:hmm:

 

The Op is talking off ticket and yes frankly i have never seen anyone do that with certainty- i certainly cant after 30yrs of firearms ownership, hunting and competitive shooting behind me and i include FAC rated pre-charge in that. anyone want to check out trajectories and windages can see that without figuring in poor actual accuraccy obtained at such ranges using skirted pellets. If you check out the threads many say no to such shots with .22 lr. can it be done every now and again with an fac rated airgun? yes but you will get lots of misses and wounders trying

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Are you trying to say that you cant cleanly shoot a rabbit in the head at 80 yds (73 metres) with an AA S410 FAC?..... 'Cause Ive more than a few in the freezer that might disagree with you!

 

:hmm:

 

 

http://youtu.be/oaWcLdGdGXE

 

I think to be fair, whilst thats pretty good shooting....on targets....it does confirm quite a few misses that would also include a lot of wounding shots :yes: I'm as loyal to my guns, especially being an air rifle nut, as the next man, but there comes a point when, due to the equipment, shot placement and personal accuracy fall below an acceptable level. Just my opinion.

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Is it really good shooting ? That gun is clamped, from the look of the start of the video. If that is the case, then even prone with a bipod would be less accurate than that. That number of misses, fliers, wounding shots would not be acceptable to me at the 50+ metre shots in that video.

 

I'll say it again, anyone that reckons they can hit something the size of a 5p coin, with every shot, at 70m, using an air rifle of any sort, should be on an international team. I would certainly expect them to have a large, and very full, trophy cabinet. A 5p coin has a diameter of about 17mm.

 

Now, maybe Nightsearcher and others can really do that. I have my doubts

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Read above post robbie it sounds like your a springer shooter that hasn`t done much if any target shooting.

I doubt you have ever shot a pcp Field target Rifle or have much experience otherwise you wouldn`t have doubts.

I have not said that i hunt at 70 yds. The max i hunt at is 50 yds with a sub 12 ftlb gun.

I am not saying i would do it with any gun just the Daystate Huntsman FTR because it`s that good and accurate.

I was in a gun club for years and i used to shoot knock down targets with a 20 mm hole at 60 yds with a tuned HW77 in .177. Long before PCPs came on the seen that made life easier.

Edited by NIGHT SEARCHER

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Read above post robbie it sounds like your a springer shooter that hasn`t done much if any target shooting.

I doubt you have ever shot a pcp Field target Rifle or have much experience otherwise you wouldn`t have doubts.

I have not said that i hunt at 70 yds. The max i hunt at is 50 yds with a sub 12 ftlb gun.

I am not saying i would do it with any gun just the Daystate Huntsman FTR because it`s that good and accurate.

I was in a gun club for years and i used to shoot knock down targets with a 20 mm hole at 60 yds with a tuned HW77 in .177. Long before PCPs came on the seen that made life easier.

 

Well i have competed in the early days of FT with a FWB sport later a TXsr then a GC2 PCP i aint ever seen any field target shooter who could garantee 1st round hits on a 20mm disc at an unranged 50 yd target let alone 60!. I include 3 world champions in that remark. Most if pressed say 35 yds or a bit more in good conditions on live quarry. I have howver both seen and achieved silly long range kills at times, though the same or higher amounts of misses and wounders - which isnt realy on.

If you can do as claimed 20mm at 60yds outdoors with std paralax ranging you are the best in the UK by a long margin.

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Read above post robbie it sounds like your a springer shooter that hasn`t done much if any target shooting.

I doubt you have ever shot a pcp Field target Rifle or have much experience otherwise you wouldn`t have doubts.

I have not said that i hunt at 70 yds. The max i hunt at is 50 yds with a sub 12 ftlb gun.

I am not saying i would do it with any gun just the Daystate Huntsman FTR because it`s that good and accurate.

I was in a gun club for years and i used to shoot knock down targets with a 20 mm hole at 60 yds with a tuned HW77 in .177. Long before PCPs came on the seen that made life easier.

 

Would Wales cadets under 18s .22 target rifle team, 10m AND 50m, 1986-1988 suffice ? Got into the team just before my 16th birthday.

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