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Another idiot with a gun!


Bloke
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What really disappointing is that no one has made any proposals as to how we can make this sport safer in light of this incident, there are so many anti change merchants its no wonder that it ends up with authorities taking action without consultation. We had the first major incident that lead to a ban of semi automatic guns after Hungerford without consolation, no notice was given to so called enthusiast. Dunblane lead to the banning of hand guns without consultation and by the skin of our teeth the last outrage involved shotguns never lead to direct action but as I found out it had indirect consequences…I have only ever really seen Pump action shotguns on police 5 cut down with sawn off stocks…..I grant you that Automatics may have a use on clay shoots, but I personally ensure whoever is shooting one on my squad knows what safety precautions are expected of them.

 

We are at a cross roads in this sport where we have to manage the sport ourselves, everyone of us has to ensure the safety of everyone that is taking part, not just the shooters but everyone, grounds and Associations can only do so much. We are rapidly approaching major changes that effect every clay /game and rough shooters, much of this already affects clayshooting. By good preparation and hopefully notice those changes will be integrated into the sport without causing problems.

 

Dennis

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For those slightly more competent ..

Semi-autos were not banned after Hungerford. Full autos were. Restrictions on semi-autos were brought in.

Dunblane : Tony Blair saw that as a ticket to power (as was discussed elsewhere on these forums recently). Nothing else.

 

and by the skin of our teeth the last outrage involved shotguns never lead to direct action but as I found out it had indirect consequences…I have only ever really seen Pump action shotguns on police 5 cut down with sawn off stocks…..I grant you that Automatics may have a use on clay shoots, but I personally ensure whoever is shooting one on my squad knows what safety precautions are expected of them.

 

We are at a cross roads in this sport where we have to manage the sport ourselves, everyone of us has to ensure the safety of everyone that is taking part, not just the shooters but everyone, grounds and Associations can only do so much. We are rapidly approaching major changes that effect every clay /game and rough shooters, much of this already affects clayshooting. By good preparation and hopefully notice those changes will be integrated into the sport without causing problems.

 

So tell us, oh omnipotent ... (I think thats the word I mean) one, what direct changes were forced upon you ?

As you are such a god and ultimate authority, tell us of the special requirements you make of semi-auto shooters ?

Tell us of these major changes on the horizon you (and nobody else) knows of ?

 

Oh. While you are at it, answer all the questions put to you recently (on the last page). Don't just go all dino-rawr as usual, please

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I have only ever really seen Pump action shotguns on police 5 cut down with sawn off stocks

 

 

Really? Whenever the police have an arms amnesty there are always sawn off double barrelled shotguns because there a heck load more of them to steal and modify.

 

As for changes to make the shooting safer-its already safe.Gun incidents are low and you could never fully erradicate those accidents that do happen like you could never prevent car accidents.

 

Sorry chap,but i've read your posts and your madder than a box of frogs.

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For those slightly more competent ..

Semi-autos were not banned after Hungerford. Full autos were. Restrictions on semi-autos were brought in.

Dunblane : Tony Blair saw that as a ticket to power (as was discussed elsewhere on these forums recently). Nothing else.

 

 

 

So tell us, oh omnipotent ... (I think thats the word I mean) one, what direct changes were forced upon you ?

As you are such a god and ultimate authority, tell us of the special requirements you make of semi-auto shooters ?

Tell us of these major changes on the horizon you (and nobody else) knows of ?

 

Oh. While you are at it, answer all the questions put to you recently (on the last page). Don't just go all dino-rawr as usual, please

 

Not true. Full-autos have been effectively illegal for private individuals to possess since about 1936, I think. Semi-auto centre-fire rifles were prohibited after Hungerford as were burst-fire firearms.

 

J.

Edited by JonathanL
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..........................…..I grant you that Automatics may have a use on clay shoots, but I personally ensure whoever is shooting one on my squad knows what safety precautions are expected of them.

............................

 

Dennis

Are you actually seriously telling us that you, in your self-appointed mode of 'safety monitor', single out anyone shooting a semi-automatic shotgun, and question them/instruct them in safe handling of said gun? Firstly, who put you in charge of the squad, are you an appointed official, or the ground owner? Secondly, why should I recognise your opinions (I am responsible for my safe shooting, not you), without evidence of your knowledge/authority in the instruction of shotgun useage? Thirdly, Are you giving similar warnings to users of all other types of shotgun?

 

The last time I had a shotgun pointed in my direction in a dangerous situation, it was an o/u, it was loaded, and the guy had all the gear -CPSA badge on the vest and everything! He had more than that after I shouted at him.

 

We all need to be 'risk aware' obviously, but each and every SGC holder has satisfied their FEO of their responsibility, and for you to feel you can over-ride that, without any evidence of unsafe gun handling by the individual, smacks of arrogance. If they are behaving in a risky way, then is the time to speak up, keep lecturing people and you will be in a 'squad of one.

 

I shoot both o/u and semi-automatics, whenever I move out of the cage/away from the shooting line, my o/u is broken open with the empty chambers clearly on show, my semi-auto has a breech flag clearly displayed and the barrel pointed vertically (Which I assume would be the procedure with a pump), that is fine at all the grounds where I shoot.

Edited by Bloke
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What really disappointing is that no one has made any proposals as to how we can make this sport safer in light of this incident, there are so many anti change merchants its no wonder that it ends up with authorities taking action without consultation. We had the first major incident that lead to a ban of semi automatic guns after Hungerford without consolation, no notice was given to so called enthusiast. Dunblane lead to the banning of hand guns without consultation and by the skin of our teeth the last outrage involved shotguns never lead to direct action but as I found out it had indirect consequences…I have only ever really seen Pump action shotguns on police 5 cut down with sawn off stocks…..I grant you that Automatics may have a use on clay shoots, but I personally ensure whoever is shooting one on my squad knows what safety precautions are expected of them.

 

We are at a cross roads in this sport where we have to manage the sport ourselves, everyone of us has to ensure the safety of everyone that is taking part, not just the shooters but everyone, grounds and Associations can only do so much. We are rapidly approaching major changes that effect every clay /game and rough shooters, much of this already affects clayshooting. By good preparation and hopefully notice those changes will be integrated into the sport without causing problems.

 

Dennis

 

I'm going to ask you two (2) questions only. That may I may get a straight answer.

 

Number one (1); You admit you have no real experience with pump actions and you have only seen them in a cut down (already illegal) state. With this limited experience, why do you feel you have the knowledge to claim pump actions are unsafe and should be banned?

 

Number two (2); What are these mysterious changes that you keep mentioning but never explaining? You call for solidarity among shooters, it would help if we all knew what changes we face, not just the chosen few (ie; you).

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I beleive I may have witnessed your shooting on the stand with the rabbit and the going away quatering bird on it. I think you shot very well, and I was glad that I had lent my 870 to someone else to use, as whenever I see someone else with a pump action I have to challenge them to a cowboy style shootout without any regard for anyone's safety, the image of shooting or how much Texas Rotgut I have consumed.

 

Personally I think using a pump action makes you look big AND clever.

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I beleive I may have witnessed your shooting on the stand with the rabbit and the going away quatering bird on it. I think you shot very well, and I was glad that I had lent my 870 to someone else to use, as whenever I see someone else with a pump action I have to challenge them to a cowboy style shootout without any regard for anyone's safety, the image of shooting or how much Texas Rotgut I have consumed.

 

Personally I think using a pump action makes you look big AND clever.

yes and thankyou young man :good:

even though i shot like a bit of a fool i was too stoned to care :whistling:

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Being a copper Gordon you would know a lot about vague side of brains, its a precondition of joining the force. I don't know are they banned by the CPSA ? if they are not they should be...I have been asked not to metion the changes that the national bodies are involved in, its best to ask the questions directly .

 

Dennis

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if they are not they should be...

 

Why?

 

Utter giberish. Any firearm can be dangerous in the wrong hands so why on earth would you single out pumps? Oh let me guess, it's elitist ********, the same ******** that that that puts people off getting involved in the sport. Have you ever used one? Do you realise they only have one barrel and a second round can't be chambered without deliberately pumping the slide? From the sounds of it, you might have spent a long time competing in the sport but it sounds like you've done **** all to promote and support it.

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What really disappointing is that no one has made any proposals as to how we can make this sport safer in light of this incident, there are so many anti change merchants its no wonder that it ends up with authorities taking action without consultation. We had the first major incident that lead to a ban of semi automatic guns after Hungerford without consolation, no notice was given to so called enthusiast. Dunblane lead to the banning of hand guns without consultation and by the skin of our teeth the last outrage involved shotguns never lead to direct action but as I found out it had indirect consequences…I have only ever really seen Pump action shotguns on police 5 cut down with sawn off stocks…..I grant you that Automatics may have a use on clay shoots, but I personally ensure whoever is shooting one on my squad knows what safety precautions are expected of them.

 

We are at a cross roads in this sport where we have to manage the sport ourselves, everyone of us has to ensure the safety of everyone that is taking part, not just the shooters but everyone, grounds and Associations can only do so much. We are rapidly approaching major changes that effect every clay /game and rough shooters, much of this already affects clayshooting. By good preparation and hopefully notice those changes will be integrated into the sport without causing problems.

 

Dennis

 

The problem though is that you can't make any suggestions as to how things should change in relation to this incident if you don't know precisely what happend at the incident in question - and we don't.

 

If it was something as simple as someone pointing a loaded gun in an unsafe direction then I don't really see what you can do beyond the current rule of 'Don't point a gun in an unsafe direction'. It's pointless changing the rule to 'Double-don't point a gun in an unsafe direction'

 

J.

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And that would appear to be the long and short of it. Nice one JL - the voice of reason.

 

And now for the conspiracies, conjecture and Dennis filling the pages with "I know something you don't know" and "there's a gun changing storm coming and we're all doomed".

 

Incidentally I spoke to someone really high up in the sport who is also Royalty and a Judge and an Iman and they told me not to listen to a word Dennis says. But he also said not to say any more and so I've said too much already. But it was a really great story I know and you don't know, because I know lots of amazing people 'high up in the sport' whatever that means, and yes that makes me super great (etc).

 

Did I mention my spell with the emergency services, well I say emergency services it was a stint with meals on wheels.....

 

 

Edited by Mungler
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Being a copper Gordon you would know a lot about vague side of brains, its a precondition of joining the force. I don't know are they banned by the CPSA ? if they are not they should be...I have been asked not to metion the changes that the national bodies are involved in, its best to ask the questions directly .

 

Dennis

 

Wails of impending doom, refuses to talk about what the impending doom involves.

 

Claims pump actions are dangerous and should be banned, refuses to answer why and changes subject randomly.

 

Claims the CPSA banned pump actions, goes on to claim he doesn't know what the CPSA banned.

 

Talks of conspiracy between the government, police and shooting organisations, is the only one who knows anything about it.

 

Dennis, you have been hilarious, you can certainly come again seeing as no one actually listens to you anymore. Most entertaining.

Edited by cant hit rabbits 123
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Being a copper Gordon you would know a lot about vague side of brains, its a precondition of joining the force. I don't know are they banned by the CPSA ? if they are not they should be...I have been asked not to metion the changes that the national bodies are involved in, its best to ask the questions directly .

 

Dennis

 

Policeman. That explains a great deal now. Happy posting Gordon R,

 

Thanks Dennis

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I can't believe what I'm reading on this post.

 

Shooters looking to legislate the fun out of everything because it's not "normal" or "serious". Clayshooting for me is something I do for fun. I also shoot to practice for pigeons and game shooting.

 

I'm safe when I do it because I simply never let my gun be pointed at anyone. It's never loaded unless & until I'm on the stand ready to call for the bird. If that gun's a semi, pump, hammergun, bolt action single barrel, sbs or OU matters not one jot or tittle. The gun's cased between stands too.

 

To have some ponce look down his nose at me because without my OU I'm clearly not a "serious" clay shooter and therefore probably a dangerous cowboy is patronising, blinkered & offensive.

 

If anyone sees me behave less than safe I would expect a roasting as I will also deliver a roasting to anyone who is less than safe around me. Perhaps if one has only ever shot olympic discipline clays and never done anything else with a gun it's understandable how that tribal mentality can develop, but I think it's a bit sad that we can't all get along and have some fun shooting at clays safely.

 

The event in question seems to have been caused by a drunken idiot who should not have been in charge of a shotgun of any description.

 

The message I am getting from Mr Webb on here, seems to suggest that we should perhaps ask the Nanny State to kindly ban everything apart from a Beretta or a Browning OU - and anyone who uses anything else should be cast into the wilderness where there will be much wailing and gnashing of teeth ?

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Jonathan - yet again - I doff my cap. Short and to the point. Well done.

 

BRNDL - are you related to Dennis or play a banjo, whilst sitting on the porch?. You give a fair impression.

 

 

Dennis - spot the difference:-

 

I think we all know that Pump Action shotguns have no place on a clayshoot, I believe they are banned by the CPSA and for good reason.

 

I don't know are they banned by the CPSA ? if they are not they should be
Edited by Gordon R
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I have been a member of the CPSA for 40 years, i almost only ever shoot registered shoots, but on the odd occasions i do shoot straw bale shoots, there is a cavalier attitude endemic in shoots such as these. It’s the reason that Sporting Shooters are treated poorly by some aspects of other shooting disciplines, sporting shooters do not get the respect of the shooting establishment because they are prone to incidents such as this. If you walked onto a registered shoot with a pump action shotgun, in all probability you would be told to leave. If you walked onto a shoot showing signs of drunkenness and continued to shoot you could be suspended or kicked out of the CPSA……There has to be self regulation in our sport, that the main reason the CPSA exists. BASC don’t want to get involved in that area although I suspect in the future they will have to.

 

I have nothing against straw bales shoots and those that take part, it’s the nursery area for the whole of shooting and something to be encouraged, but there has to be standards to protect our whole sport, there has to be an induction process into the sport that involves some measure of competence before you are given a gun. Its far better if our existing organisations run such schemes rather than some government quango, that is why there are moves afoot for this to happen. My E Petition and letter to Downing Street was just anticipating what has to happen to preserve the future of our sport .

Dennis

 

So what is your e-petition titeled ? Do you have a link ? I'm sure we would all like to have a look. I'm assuming its in the public domain ?

 

Yes I shoot a pump

 

Yes I shoot an auto

 

I also shoot a sxs and an o/u

 

Yes I shoot at straw balers

 

I also shoot at proper clay shoots with these guns

 

 

Yes I do an incredible amount of wing shooting and use the clays to tighten up for the season.

 

Am I unsafe by default ?

 

Because according to your standards I am ?

 

I have NEVER had an accident.

Edited by mpk
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