Advice on which breed to buy?

[al4x]

Have a look at Ashleygrove gundogs they are in Codicote, Avis that runs it tends to have cockers fairly regularly and the usual stud dog is a cracker and out on our shoot weekly, seems to be the main source of cockers locally or she will know of any planned litters. Training wise they do a lot locally

[welsh1]

 

Cant see why you would add on to what I posted Wesh1. unless you are are not up to putting you own name behind a Brittany

I have been around dogs a long, long time, attended hawk meeting, with Brittany's attending, I have been beating, with Brittany's attending, I have been shooting, with Brittany's attending. I have just about seen every type of gun-dog work you can think of and I have NEVER seen a good Brittany. I would not have one given to me free, or give one kennel space.

I know a lot of lads that have them, but the Brittany are a Jack of all trades and master of none.

Half wont face cover, In the autumn when the cover is still up and they go on point you struggle to see them. in the very cold weather they shiver all the time as there coat is poor. A mate of mine has one that if the door is left open, it runs off, and so on.

Now the law of averages say there has to be a good one some where, but I'm sorry to say I have not come across a good one yet.

If you want a pointer: buy a German for rough cover or an English for the moors.

if you want a retriever: buy a lab

If you want a H,R.: buy a Cocker or a Springer.

all the above breeds have been bred over the years and proved there worth.

At the end of the day, get the dog that fits in with most of the shooting that you do.

 

Sorry about the confusion,I put my inserts in red so they could be distinguished from yours and then also wrote a paragraph below,as you can see by my profile picture I have a Brittany,he works,you can see his latest outing in the sporting pictures under" broken my woodcock duck" there is also a short video in the video section under"jake looking for woodcock".

 

Answers to some of your points,

Brittany's don't need to crash through cover,their nose tells them what's in the bush,they are not there to scare birds up but locate them and go to point,you would be surprised what is found by a Brittany after the ESS has crashed through.so it may look like they won't face cover but they are doing what they are bred to do,once they are on the retrieve it is a different matter,I doubt a concrete wall will stop mine.

If you struggle to see a Brittany at point then you are due a visit to the optician or you are not positioning yourself correctly,mine is orange and white,surely easier to see than a black or brown ESS or cocker.

As for their coat being poor look at the picture of mine,he is soaking,has smashed through the undergrowth to retrieve the last woodcock( I mention it in my write up) we have been out for two hours in saturated fields and swollen streams and ponds and he is still wanting more.

As for your mates dog running away,that is down to training,mine has a couple of fields at the end of the garden but he stays in the garden,and if I am out front ,we live in a cul de sac,he will go 100 yds each way but no more.

 

Look on the Brittany owners site you will see lots of good working Brittany's,don't write a breed off because you have only seen bad ones,if the breed was so bad then they would stop breeding it.

 

Have a look around,might surprise you. http://www.brittanyclub.co.uk/index.asp

[WGD]

If you want a pointer: buy a German for rough cover or an English for the moors.

if you want a retriever: buy a lab

If you want a H,R.: buy a Cocker or a Springer.

 

Stick by that and you won't go far wrong

[Dirty Harry]

Welsh1 I have lost my GWP on point quite a few times and he is probably 3 times bigger than your dog. It depends what ground your working them on. He blends in very well in trees and long grass and when he's on point he stays on point.

 

Harry

[welsh1]

Welsh1 I have lost my GWP on point quite a few times and he is probably 3 times bigger than your dog. It depends what ground your working them on. He blends in very well in trees and long grass and when he's on point he stays on point.

 

Harry

 

I do accept that they can blend in when on point,but to write a breed off with one of the points being that you can't see them was daft,as you say once they are on point they stay there,surely that shows that the breeds are doing what they have been bred and trained to do.

 

I think some people are happy with spaniels and labs and others like how HPR's work,it can be frustrating if you have had a ESS manically working in front of you,to then have a HPR methodically work in front of you,two different styles of hunting.

 

Don't get me wrong, I love to watch the spaniels quarter the ground at 100 miles an hour,and marvel at their speed.

[al4x]

It is different styles and generally the style most suited to general uk rough shooting and beating is what the OP was after. We can all extol the virtues of HPR's but really unless you do some rifle work then the others are more suitable. That said I have a GWP who hunts harder than anything on our beating team and has lots of plus points but for mostly retrieving work I'd have a retriever of some form.

[kent]

 

Cant see why you would add on to what I posted Wesh1. unless you are are not up to putting you own name behind a Brittany

I have been around dogs a long, long time, attended hawk meeting, with Brittany's attending, I have been beating, with Brittany's attending, I have been shooting, with Brittany's attending. I have just about seen every type of gun-dog work you can think of and I have NEVER seen a good Brittany. I would not have one given to me free, or give one kennel space.

I know a lot of lads that have them, but the Brittany are a Jack of all trades and master of none.

Half wont face cover, In the autumn when the cover is still up and they go on point you struggle to see them. in the very cold weather they shiver all the time as there coat is poor. A mate of mine has one that if the door is left open, it runs off, and so on.

Now the law of averages say there has to be a good one some where, but I'm sorry to say I have not come across a good one yet.

If you want a pointer: buy a German for rough cover or an English for the moors.

if you want a retriever: buy a lab

If you want a H,R.: buy a Cocker or a Springer.

all the above breeds have been bred over the years and proved there worth.

At the end of the day, get the dog that fits in with most of the shooting that you do.

 

you put it so well, they only breed them coz they fetch good money and some like to be different and look clever. If it aint broke don't try and fix it

Edited December 28, 2012 by kent

[kent]

It is different styles and generally the style most suited to general uk rough shooting and beating is what the OP was after. We can all extol the virtues of HPR's but really unless you do some rifle work then the others are more suitable. That said I have a GWP who hunts harder than anything on our beating team and has lots of plus points but for mostly retrieving work I'd have a retriever of some form.

 

I just don't get that point about rifle work as it misses the HUNT bit and beating pheasants it misses the POINT bit out entirely. I should say get a HMR if game is scarce and ground is vast. Just seeing such a dog running wide out into the country on a breezy day then freezing solid locked on point is what its all about - even if they give you that nasty glance back when you miss the shot.

 

 

Edited December 28, 2012 by kent

[al4x]

I just don't get that as it misses the HUNT bit out entirely. I should say get a HMR if game is scarce and ground is vast. Just seeing such a dog running out into the country then freezing solid locked on point is what its all about - even if they give you that nasty glance back when you miss the shot

 

I have one that does that but also bung her in a drive with pheasants everywhere and she methodically hunts and points when one sits tight till the beating line catches up and then flushes it. Partridge days she will go further then indicate coveys which is brilliant as then the line catches up with a vague knowledge where they will break from. Not strictly the main use for a pointer but there aren't many dogs you can put into a small area of cover with 1000 birds in and not have them flush the lot as fast as possible she is great for our kind of beating. Then end of season on beaters day is my secret weapon, but one who will also come out in the truck whenever we are foxing and find any fox in cover and despatch if necessary. Deer she has had little use on but the only occasions she has been needed has done the job perfectly. Must be ok I'm contemplating a 2nd one now she is 5 you generally form the dog you want as you go but there are definite plus points to a pointer for my kind of shooting.

[Dirty Harry]

Al4x will you go for another GWP or try a different hpr breed?

The only other breeds that tempt me are GSP's and GLP's.

[al4x]

GWP this one has been so good that I'm looking to have pups from her this spring if everything goes to plan and ideally keep a bitch. Once you have had one and a decent one I think they are a little addictive. Hard work but she has been fantastic in the house and round children and done everything I've wanted to shooting wise a springer or lab just wouldn't be ideal for the amount of time I spend foxing,

[Dirty Harry]

I know what you mean.

[kent]

My lab (who is still only young) entered himself to a big dog fox a few weeks ago, will admit I was flabbergasted. He has never been teased with a dead one or had any shot over him the nearest he has come is marking a few active earths in passing. The requirement of a "large quarry" rifle dog are only the ability to walk at heel track and a level of controlled aggression a GSD could be used but am now off the idea of keeping any such dog again and will have a smaller teckel or similar in future as they are easier to store and less likely to eat my kids

[kent]

Al4x will you go for another GWP or try a different hpr breed?

The only other breeds that tempt me are GSP's and GLP's.

I personally came across a full liver gwp x Slovakian the other week 7mnths old and an absolute darling more rangey than a gwp bitch of the same age and very friendly with me as a total stranger. my next pointer will likely be a pointer though not a hpr

[welsh1]

you put it so well, they only breed them coz they fetch good money and some like to be different and look clever. If it aint broke don't try and fix it

 

 

 

 

 

He was Fairly cheap compared to most ESS, labs and cockers,he was picked for the all round ability,not "to be different and look clever"Brittanys have been around since the 17th century,it ain't broke,so they ain't fixing it.

 

How versatile do you want?

Works with .22 ,.17hmr, semi auto,sxs.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[al4x]

 

I personally came across a full liver gwp x Slovakian the other week 7mnths old and an absolute darling more rangey than a gwp bitch of the same age and very friendly with me as a total stranger. my next pointer will likely be a pointer though not a hpr

 

I think a few of us with well socialised gwp's would suggest your comments aren't really up to much, that is how a well brought up dog does react, whether a mongrel or pure bred. mine spent Christmas being clambered over by nieces and nephews she loves it yet works game as though her life depends on it.

[cracker]

Kent if you're needing a foxing dog you might look in the easiest place

 

 

 

 

(or - when it comes to physics - the hardest...)

 

 

The right HPR - the right HPR temperament - will do you too. And they're out there for having another go.

 

MG

[al4x]

I think he knows that cracker

 

but there are HPR's out there who will tackle foxes and won't take your arm off

[Actionpigeons]

I do accept that they can blend in when on point,but to write a breed off with one of the points being that you can't see them was daft,as you say once they are on point they stay there,surely that shows that the breeds are doing what they have been bred and trained to do.

 

I think some people are happy with spaniels and labs and others like how HPR's work,it can be frustrating if you have had a ESS manically working in front of you,to then have a HPR methodically work in front of you,two different styles of hunting.

 

Don't get me wrong, I love to watch the spaniels quarter the ground at 100 miles an hour,and marvel at their speed.

I am not writing them off because you cant see them on point some times, I am writing them off because so many of the are useless.

One dog being ok out of a hundred bred is no reason to get one. if you buy a Springer,Cocker Lab,or pointer from working stock there is a very good chance it will end up a reasonable worker even in a novices hands.

There is a very little chance of a Brittany ending a dog you would call good,

Now I would love to be proved wrong on this as I like the idea of a dog that can work cover, point, sit in a hide with out moving until told and do good long retrieves in water as well as on land. If I could find one dog to do all this it would save me having four dogs but I really cant see it being a Brittany. as I said before, "they are a Jack of all trades, But a master of none".and I must say they are not the prettiest of dogs.

added a picture of three of mine.

Edited December 28, 2012 by Actionpigeons

[welsh1]

There are bad dogs in all breeds,ESS that just tear around cockers that think they are dobermans etc,and there are shed loads of them about, whereas the brittany is a bit rarer,but they have that inbuilt desire to hunt the same as the rest of the working dogs.

 

I accept that you have probably seen a few badly trained ones,and mine is no angel,but from experience i have to say he is a dam good worker,each to his own as they say.

 

As for ugly,you hurt Jake's feelings,

 

[Actionpigeons]

There are bad dogs in all breeds,ESS that just tear around cockers that think they are dobermans etc,and there are shed loads of them about, whereas the brittany is a bit rarer,but they have that inbuilt desire to hunt the same as the rest of the working dogs.

 

I accept that you have probably seen a few badly trained ones,and mine is no angel,but from experience i have to say he is a dam good worker,each to his own as they say.

 

As for ugly,you hurt Jake's feelings,

 

Yes he not bad looking, if you take away the barrel chest, splayed back legs, short ears, dropping jowls,eyes to close together, under shot jaw, ...................... yes not bad looking dog at all.......lol Edited December 28, 2012 by Actionpigeons

[welsh1]

Yes he not bad looking, if you take away the barrel chest, splayed back legs, short ears, dropping jowls,eyes to close together, under shot jaw, ...................... yes not bad looking dog at all.......lol

 

He speaks highly of you to :D

[kent]

Kent if you're needing a foxing dog you might look in the easiest place

 

 

 

 

(or - when it comes to physics - the hardest...)

 

 

The right HPR - the right HPR temperament - will do you too. And they're out there for having another go.

 

MG

I am trying to get my Lab pup off foxes presently- live ones!

[kent]

I think a few of us with well socialised gwp's would suggest your comments aren't really up to much, that is how a well brought up dog does react, whether a mongrel or pure bred. mine spent Christmas being clambered over by nieces and nephews she loves it yet works game as though her life depends on it.

But not all will socialise correctly - any honest GWP guy or gall will tell the same. The other issue is some that make great house dogs are total pants in the field

[kent]

There are bad dogs in all breeds,ESS that just tear around cockers that think they are dobermans etc,and there are shed loads of them about, whereas the brittany is a bit rarer,but they have that inbuilt desire to hunt the same as the rest of the working dogs.

 

I accept that you have probably seen a few badly trained ones,and mine is no angel,but from experience i have to say he is a dam good worker,each to his own as they say.

 

As for ugly,you hurt Jake's feelings,

 

The fact is though you might well have a good one, many are total junk and often fail in the hands of the top trainers, the story is quite different in other countries so its the UK lines that are faulty not the breed itself. Good is bound to turn up. Why is your dog wearing a collar in these posed photos btw?