Filling pressure???

[elz]

I have ordered my aa s410 k.

 

Now i need to buy my bottle. Going to go for a 10 ltr. 1 problem. do i need the 232 bar or 300 bar bottle. Im not to sure what the filling pressure of the 410 is? any ideas?

[SNAKEBITE]

The fill pressure of the diving bottle bears no relation to the fill pressure of the rifle, just the fact that you will get more fills from a 300 bar bottle than a 232 bar bottle. Bear in mind that not all dive centres fill 300 bar bottles.

 

The fill pressure MAX of the S410 is 190 bar. However filling to this pressure is not advisable because it takes you out of the "Sweet spot" which is as they say another kettle of fish...............

 

 

There are LOADS of threads on here about sweet spots for an S410k (Most of them mine!) so do a search and all will be revaled.................

 

(Ball park figure is 175 bar, 40 shots, fill to 175 bar repeat till fade)

[roblade]

it would have to be a 300 bar bottle, even if your local centre cant fill to 300 bar, they will be able to fill it to 232 without any problem, and if they can fill to 300bar you will be getting approx 100% more fills.

 

dont forget you will only use about 50% of the air in a 232 bar bottle, you only fill your rifle until you cant get any more shots from it, if you fill your rifle to 190bar (average for the S4** rifles) you can keep filling it until your only geting a couple of shots per charge.

 

Its roughly 5bar per fill so 100bar will give you 20 fills (20 fills from a 232) 200 bar will give you 40 fills.

 

hope this helps you out

 

ROB

[sandersj89]

I am a little confused, no change there then I hear you cry!!

 

How many fills will a 3 litre buddy bottle at 232 BAR give on a AA410K? Is that bottle worth it as a carry around in the car as it is only a few kgs compared to larger bottle?

 

Thanks

 

Jerry

[pin]

If you are going to get a 3l, make it 300bar honestly. Charging happens because of the pressure difference between the bottle and the cylinder on the gun.

 

You need a higher pressure in the bottle than in the gun, this differential equals out by trying to equalise the pressure. Basically the the charging would keep happening until the pressure was the same on both sides, you will be watching the gauge and stop it before then.

 

At 232 bar there will be air left in the tank but at insufficient pressure to fill the rifle way before the 300bar would run out, for the same cost of a fill and a few more quid on the price of the bottle.

 

For a real world example from the makers of the gun you have chosen, look here http://www.air-arms.co.uk/TECHSTUFF.htm scroll down to "About Compressed Air"

 

Hope this helps.

[roblade]

This is why i like springers LOL

 

as pin said though the higher the opresure inside the bottle the more air you will get out of it.

 

A 3Ltr 232bar bottle will give you 4 maybe 5 fills a 3ltr 300bar will give you 8-10 fills.

 

This may confuse you even further now LOL so i appologise about this.

 

you can get a 15ltr 300 bar bottle and keep that in the house, and then you can get a 3ltr 232 bar bottle. Instead of going to the dive shop and filling the little bottle up every time it runs out, you can get a decanter set made up to fill the little bottle from the big bottle same way you would fill a cup from a water bottle.

 

If possible you should always try to get a 300 bar bottle as if you get a 232 that cant be over filled, but a 300 bar bottle can be under filled if the centre cant charge a full 300bar.

 

or you can save all the coinfusion and get yourself a webley/fx pump, they really are not as bad as people would lead you to belive I have used one to pump a career 707 up to 250 bar, knackered after pumping but did the job and gave me a days shooting, stick a movie on and just have a mad five mins with a 5 min breakgets the job done in about 20 mins. Pumps are light weight portable and very versatile.

 

ROB

[sandersj89]

This is why i like springers LOL

 

as pin said though the higher the opresure inside the bottle the more air you will get out of it.

 

A 3Ltr 232bar bottle will give you 4 maybe 5 fills a 3ltr 300bar will give you 8-10 fills.

 

This may confuse you even further now LOL so i appologise about this.

 

you can get a 15ltr 300 bar bottle and keep that in the house, and then you can get a 3ltr 232 bar bottle. Instead of going to the dive shop and filling the little bottle up every time it runs out, you can get a decanter set made up to fill the little bottle from the big bottle same way you would fill a cup from a water bottle.

 

If possible you should always try to get a 300 bar bottle as if you get a 232 that cant be over filled, but a 300 bar bottle can be under filled if the centre cant charge a full 300bar.

 

or you can save all the coinfusion and get yourself a webley/fx pump, they really are not as bad as people would lead you to belive I have used one to pump a career 707 up to 250 bar, knackered after pumping but did the job and gave me a days shooting, stick a movie on and just have a mad five mins with a 5 min breakgets the job done in about 20 mins. Pumps are light weight portable and very versatile.

 

ROB

 

Thanks all,

 

4 or 5 fills from it will be fine to carry around in the car and still give me plenty of shooting. I was going to look at finding a larger cheap 300 BAR bottle at some point as well.

 

Jerry

[elz]

im looking at the 10ltr 300 bar tank. can get it brand new with guage for just under £200. is that a good price

[roblade]

im looking at the 10ltr 300 bar tank. can get it brand new with guage for just under £200. is that a good price

 

Thats not a bad price, but JS ramsbottom uis sellingt a 7ltr 232 bottle for £160 or a 12ltr for £195 both with free shipping BUT you would not want to carry the 12ltr about! its approx 5'tall when stnding!!!! It would be the ideal bottle to use for decanting to a smaller bottle though.

 

hope this helps you out a little, he also does the smaller bottles as well, so it could be worth giving him a bell and seeing if he wouold give a bit of discount for little and large together.

 

all the best

 

ROB

[elz]

the bottle i will be using is a divers bottle so it fat and small about 2.5 ft tall. Ideal for keeping in the boot...]so......8 fills at 70 shots per charge=560 shots. that is alot of shots.

[SNAKEBITE]

When hunting 560 shots is a years worth, when plinking Roblade gets through that number in a week!

 

It's all relative to what you want and sod the rest of them!

[Axe]

the bottle i will be using is a divers bottle so it fat and small about 2.5 ft tall. Ideal for keeping in the boot...]so......8 fills at 70 shots per charge=560 shots. that is alot of shots.

 

Just be careful that your insurance covers you to cary the bottle in your car!

[NickHead]

I agree with the majority. Get a 300 Bar bottle

 

6 Charges on a 232 Bar

 

15 Charges on a 300 Bar, twice as many, the same price to fill at our dive centre.

 

232 Bar = 480 shots on a .22, 300 on a .177 (80 per max fill approx)

 

300 Bar = 1200 Shots on a .22 , 750 on a .177 (50 per max fill approx)

 

I went from a 12 Ltr 232 to a 7 ltr 300, a lot lighter and smaller, and more fills to boot.

 

Regards

 

Nick

[elz]

the bottle i will be using is a divers bottle so it fat and small about 2.5 ft tall. Ideal for keeping in the boot...]so......8 fills at 70 shots per charge=560 shots. that is alot of shots.

 

Just be careful that your insurance covers you to cary the bottle in your car!

 

 

I wont be carrying it in my car matey, only from the dive shop. 70 shots when hunting is alot of shots for me to use. I normally only see roughly 6-8 rabbits per outing. Going on the hunt for some land on Saturday.

[pin]

I wont be carrying it in my car matey, only from the dive shop. 70 shots when hunting is alot of shots for me to use. I normally only see roughly 6-8 rabbits per outing. Going on the hunt for some land on Saturday.

 

Exactly, people worry about shots per charge, if you are hunting any PCP rifle will have sufficient. That is unless you live on Bunny Island and hunt during national stupid bunny week where they run into the pellets for you

[Recurve]

Thats not a bad price, but JS ramsbottom uis sellingt a 7ltr 232 bottle for £160 or a 12ltr for £195 both with free shipping BUT you would not want to carry the 12ltr about! its approx 5'tall when stnding!!!! It would be the ideal bottle to use for decanting to a smaller bottle though.

 

 

all the best

 

ROB

 

Ummm, no it's not. A 12 litre bottle (232 or 300 bar) is less than 30 inches high including the valve ,unless it's a 'dumpy' 12 in which case it's the same height as a 10 litre which is about 6 inches less. In fact a 12 litre is about the same height as a 7 litre which is the same height as a 15 litre, they're all just different diameters.

 

HTH

[elz]

I thought so but i have seen 1 company advertising bottle that big. they look like massive oxygen bottles. Ill stick to the dive shop. Much cheaper.

[roblade]

Ummm, no it's not. A 12 litre bottle (232 or 300 bar) is less than 30 inches high including the valve ,unless it's a 'dumpy' 12 in which case it's the same height as a 10 litre which is about 6 inches less. In fact a 12 litre is about the same height as a 7 litre which is the same height as a 15 litre, they're all just different diameters.

 

HTH

 

Sorry to disapoint you but ramsbottoms are selling WEBLEY bottles for surface use only, these bottles are roughly 5' tall!!!! ! THEY ARE NOT DIVE BOTTLES! The main difference being webley bottles only need testing every 5 years as opposed to a divers bottle every 2.5 years (unless clearly marked SURFACE USE ONLY). Not to mention lack of dexterity with a 5' tube strapped to your back LOL

 

So soryr to disapoint but I have seen one of these bottles and can supply a pic if needed.

 

But yes the normal dive bottles are around 2' high (give or take) and basicaly come in dummy or slim design (rought 6" difference between them).

 

But then again ramsbottom is including EVERYTHING for under £200, bottle, din fitting hose, guage AND delivery! to but this from a dive shop your looking around £200 ish for the bottle, then another £50ish for the filler hose calmp and gauge and probably a few quid for petrol to and from shop.

 

The 7ltr he does is a much more manageable size and the small one even better.

[elz]

Ummm, no it's not. A 12 litre bottle (232 or 300 bar) is less than 30 inches high including the valve ,unless it's a 'dumpy' 12 in which case it's the same height as a 10 litre which is about 6 inches less. In fact a 12 litre is about the same height as a 7 litre which is the same height as a 15 litre, they're all just different diameters.

 

HTH

 

The main difference being webley bottles only need testing every 5 years as opposed to a divers bottle every 2.5 years (unless clearly marked SURFACE USE ONLY).

 

 

Bottles from dive shop are not marked SURFACE USE ONLY!!!!

 

But yes they have to be tested every 5 years. Costs roughly £25.

[roblade]

Bottles from dive shop are not marked SURFACE USE ONLY!!!!

 

But yes they have to be tested every 5 years. Costs roughly £25.

 

 

<Sigh> erm i know! thats why they need to be marked clearly SURFACE USE ONLY othere wise they need to be tested every 2.5 years as per a divers bottle. Every 5 years for a hydro check, 2.5yeras for a quick visual, it fails you still have to pay.

 

Translation if you buy a divers bottle, you must mark it loud and clear SURFACE USE ONLY. Or you will have ot get it tested every 2.5 years.

 

Webly bottles come with a different vaulve system which means they can never be used underwater, so there is no need for the SURFACE USE ONLY warning on them.

 

ROB

[Recurve]

My apologies for posting wrong info about those cylinders Rob, and contradicting you. I was just thinking of standard dive tubes. Those JSR ones must be mighty skinny!!!

[roblade]

My apologies for posting wrong info about those cylinders Rob, and contradicting you. I was just thinking of standard dive tubes. Those JSR ones must be mighty skinny!!!

 

 

no problem, would have loved to see the guys face when the tube turned up on his door step :lol::lol:

 

ROB

[justme]

I have just bought a PCP gun with a hand pump but was wondering if it would be possible to fill it up from my mig welding bottle? The presure in the bottle is 200-230 bar aprox but does have a much larger volume so presure drop would be very very low. The gas is argon & co2 & a small amount of oxygen (less than in the air, I think 2%) mix.

 

Justme

[pin]

Yes is the simple answer, you could equally fill it with jelly or water if you wanted. I wouldn't do it though

[justme]

Ok then lets phrase that differently. Is it safe to fill my PCP from a welding bottle & will the gasses mentioned do any damage to the gun? I assume that as its non volitile gasses at about the same presure as divers / propper filling bottles the pressure / volume is not a problem. Even the oxygen is at a lower level than air so unless some of the power is coming from the oxygen igniting I cant see a problem. I guess I'll have to ask the makers if no one here knows.

 

 

Justme