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Browning 725 trigger resetting issues


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I will be watching this topic because I was thinking about buying one of these.

 

artschool.. I shall be down the local ground on Friday morning to test out the verious theory's & whatnot..

I will keep you informed of how things progress.

To be honest, I'm very happy with her regardless of this little hiccup. I'm sure it will all get sorted.

 

Q (x)

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Shot load has no bearing on the operation of a mechanical trigger. If you have a misfire with the first barrel you can pull the trigger again and fire the second barrel which is an advantage over an inertia block trigger in this respect.

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I have just tested her out on some new snap caps.... The un-pitted top barrel pin left a deep precise round hole in the snap cap's centre, where as the hole that the pitted pin left is far more random and uneven and not as deep.

So I feel that maybe the pin isn't striking the cartrage cap in the right place with the necessary force needed...!?

 

Perhaps......?

 

Q

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DR Q when you next fire the gun and you get the problem unload the gun ( remember missfire drill !) Has the second cartridge been struck ?(ie does it have a mark from the firing pin ?) This would highlight if the problem is a a weak hammer spring or short firing pin or confirm thaty the issue is caused by the trigger(via the sears ) not releasing the hammer?

Edited by Canis
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DR Q when you next fire the gun and you get the problem unload the gun ( remember missfire drill !) Has the second cartridge been struck ?(ie does it have a mark from the firing pin ?) This would highlight if the problem is a a weak hammer spring or short firing pin or confirm thaty the issue is caused by the trigger(via the sears ) not releasing the hammer?

 

When this has happened in the past, the second cartrage has not been struck. I have done the misfire drill on each occasion & then broken the gun... Maybe if (when) it does it again I should keep the gun at shoulder and just see if it fires a second time?

 

Q

Edited by DrQ
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I have just tested her out on some new snap caps.... The un-pitted top barrel pin left a deep precise round hole in the snap cap's centre, where as the hole that the pitted pin left is far more random and uneven and not as deep.

So I feel that maybe the pin isn't striking the cartrage cap in the right place with the necessary force needed...!?

 

Perhaps......?

 

Q

 

What sort of snap caps show the indent of the pins?

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Well.... Popped down to the CGC yesterday morning and knocked out 75 cartrages on the same stands (mostly pairs) with no problems what so ever...

Everything fine & she shot like a dream.

The only difference, was that I didn't wear gloves.

I was kind of hoping that something would go wrong, but I'm very happy that it didn't.

 

Spoke to a gunsmith about it, and he assured me that the pitting in the pin would make "no difference what so ever"

 

Maybe it is all in my head &/or finger....!?

 

Q

 

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GOT SAME PROBLEM ON MY 725 MAKES NO DIFFERENT WHAT BARELL YOU FIRE FIRST BUT IT DOES MATTER ON CARTRIDGES LIGHT RECOILING CARTRIDGES LIKE GAMEBORE BLACK GOLD OR LIGHT CLAY LOADS WIL GIVE YOU PROBLEMS FIRED 100 ELEY VIP 32 GRAMS NO PROBLEM ALSO 150 HULL HIGH PHEASENT NO PROBLEM ELEY FIRST ALSO OK MY GUN HAS BEEN SENT TO BWM ARMS WIL UPDATE YOU ON OUTCOME AND NO IT NOT SOMETHING YOU ARE DOING WRONG THAT A LOAD OF ########

 

What difference does light loads make to a 725? It has mechanical triggers so the load will have no impact whatsoever on the setting of the second barrel or indeed the first shot.

 

I think you need to focus on you. Relax!, make sure it's not trigger freeze (it probably will be) and if still not right have the gun looked at.

 

If it happens again don't do the misfire drill but ask for another clay and fire it without opening. If the trigger goes click and the cartridge goes bang! then you have established its you! If it was a misfire then the trigger will have been fired on that barrel already. If it goes click and bang then you didn't pull it!

 

Once youve done the above do the misfire drill if the trigger has already been fired on that barrel. If as you say the cart has no mark and the trigger did fire on the barrel then you have established a problem with the gun.

 

If the gun has fired and the cart has been struck then it will be either the gun or the cart!

 

Hope that makes sense!! You have three potential problems - you, gun ... cart (in that order and unlikely to be carts) The above should establish which one it is!

Edited by Dibs
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What difference does light loads make to a 725? It has mechanical triggers so the load will have no impact whatsoever on the setting of the second barrel or indeed the first shot.

 

I think you need to focus on you. Relax!, make sure it's not trigger freeze (it probably will be) and if still not right have the gun looked at.

 

If it happens again don't do the misfire drill but ask for another clay and fire it without opening. If the trigger goes click and the cartridge goes bang! then you have established its you! If it was a misfire then the trigger will have been fired on that barrel already. If it goes click and bang then you didn't pull it!

 

Once youve done the above do the misfire drill if the trigger has already been fired on that barrel. If as you say the cart has no mark and the trigger did fire on the barrel then you have established a problem with the gun.

 

If the gun has fired and the cart has been struck then it will be either the gun or the cart!

 

Hope that makes sense!! You have three potential problems - you, gun ... cart (in that order and unlikely to be carts) The above should establish which one it is!

 

Cheers Dibs... All makes complete sense

 

Q

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  • 7 years later...

Mmmm! Just got a 725 Black in 20gauge, I also seem to have a problem with the trigger resetting for the second shot, for it appears only to occur When the lower barrel is selected to fire first. I have used a selection of cartridges in 21grms 65mm  Hull Pro Twenty & Eley CT,  Eley Amber70mm , which is a powerful load at this weight of shell, but not much difference, still locks up. So far doesn’t seem to occur when the top barrel is selected to fire first! 
If after firing the 1st barrel I then open the action, remove the fired round and replace it, as the action has now been ‘re-cocked’ the gun will shoot ok , till the trigger locks up again! Not happy, first Browning l’v owned, part exchanged my  Beretta A400 for it, hopefully it’s a running in process and as I get used to the mechanical trigger things will improve and the gun will perform as expected!  Will carry out some more testing, Try snap caps etc, and keep a record of the loads fired, If no joy, l’ll go back to Beretta and say sorry l’ll never leave you again!!

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1 hour ago, Rifleman22 said:

Mmmm! Just got a 725 Black in 20gauge, I also seem to have a problem with the trigger resetting for the second shot, for it appears only to occur When the lower barrel is selected to fire first. I have used a selection of cartridges in 21grms 65mm  Hull Pro Twenty & Eley CT,  Eley Amber70mm , which is a powerful load at this weight of shell, but not much difference, still locks up. So far doesn’t seem to occur when the top barrel is selected to fire first! 
If after firing the 1st barrel I then open the action, remove the fired round and replace it, as the action has now been ‘re-cocked’ the gun will shoot ok , till the trigger locks up again! Not happy, first Browning l’v owned, part exchanged my  Beretta A400 for it, hopefully it’s a running in process and as I get used to the mechanical trigger things will improve and the gun will perform as expected!  Will carry out some more testing, Try snap caps etc, and keep a record of the loads fired, If no joy, l’ll go back to Beretta and say sorry l’ll never leave you again!!

May be completly wrong here but a guy I shoot with has this issue with his browning (I think Xs pro) and after lots of watching very closely and testing by his son they worked it out to be that he wasn’t fully releasing the trigger between shots, meaning on the second pull of the trigger nothing happened.

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Thanks for the reply, all info helps,  on referring to the hand book it actually mentions this can occur! Having only inertia trigger fired guns previously, it’s more likely that it’s my trigger release is what is causing this to happen! Hope so, and I will get it right and call it running in! I did some dry firing tests using ‘snap caps’ and the trigger unit functioned correctly every time, still seems a bit strange for this to happen on such a quality shot gun!!

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On 22/10/2020 at 19:01, Spr1985 said:

May be completly wrong here but a guy I shoot with has this issue with his browning (I think Xs pro) and after lots of watching very closely and testing by his son they worked it out to be that he wasn’t fully releasing the trigger between shots, meaning on the second pull of the trigger nothing happened.

Been there.....many years back Miroku MK60. Problem identified by an instructor. Fast forward to a few months ago at Barbury Castle and a lady was berating her husband that the second shot (on report) on her new gun wasn’t working. Tactfully I asked if she was fully releasing the trigger. Later we passed again and I got the thumbs up. So, as has been suggested, it could be operator error perhaps?

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3 hours ago, Rifleman22 said:

Thanks for the reply, all info helps,  on referring to the hand book it actually mentions this can occur! Having only inertia trigger fired guns previously, it’s more likely that it’s my trigger release is what is causing this to happen! Hope so, and I will get it right and call it running in! I did some dry firing tests using ‘snap caps’ and the trigger unit functioned correctly every time, still seems a bit strange for this to happen on such a quality shot gun!!

Don't make the mistake Dibs made in the post above. The triggers on 725s are not truly mechanical in the usual sense that it's applied to shotguns. They are only mechanical in the literal sense just like every other shotgun on the planet. So, despite the marketing doublespeak, they still have an inertia system and there have been many complaints by US skeet shooters who fit sub gauge carrier barrels and then find the trigger needs adjusting because there's not enough recoil. And that's why trapping the trigger can still be a problem with 725s.

Of course it could also be a minor fault with the inertia system such as spring or contamination.

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2 hours ago, Westward said:

Don't make the mistake Dibs made in the post above. The triggers on 725s are not truly mechanical in the usual sense that it's applied to shotguns. They are only mechanical in the literal sense just like every other shotgun on the planet. So, despite the marketing doublespeak, they still have an inertia system and there have been many complaints by US skeet shooters who fit sub gauge carrier barrels and then find the trigger needs adjusting because there's not enough recoil. And that's why trapping the trigger can still be a problem with 725s.

Of course it could also be a minor fault with the inertia system such as spring or contamination.

Hi,

i have a 725 Prosport, which has the same mechanism as all 725s, I can pull the trigger on both barrels using snap caps. So would you please explain what you mean by the trigger system needing some recoil for the inertia system.

I also had a problem with with the trigger not releasing the pin for the second barrel, by the way I shoot bottom barrel first. The problem started in the first winter of owning the gun which I had purchased new. I stopped wearing gloves especially baggy fingered gloves and the issue ceased straight away. In my case like 95% of other cases the cause was in some way related to not releasing the trigger fully. 

I did Question by email one of the Browning gunsmith at the time because I too had read on the forum that the 725 was partly inertia and partly mechanical, I asked the Browning gunsmith how could it be both mechanical and inertia and he said I have not got a clue and wasn’t aware it was, you will have to ask the person who made the comment to explain.

So your explanation would be sincerely appreciated because this has confused me for some time.

kind regards

steve

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I have owned a 725 'Black' for 4 years and now have a Pro-Sport. The ONLY issues that I had was misfires in the bottom barrel. I was blaming the cartridges until I tried various makes and it occurred with any make of cartridge. I traced it back to 'gunge' a mixture of carbon and grease on the bottom firing pin. This was causing the pint to not fully retract and thus light strikes. I whipped off the stock, removed the bottom firing pin retaining pin and would have expected the pin to come out as there is a spring behind the bottom firing pin. It remained in place, it was stuck in. I used a pin drift and poked it out from the breech face hole. I then used some oil and very fine wet and dry to clean the firing pin, which had a build up of carbon on it. I then did the same to the firing pin housing. An application of a SMALL amount of Lucas red gun oil and re assembled the firing pin. Having made sure it now floated freely and the spring was fully operative, I re assembled the gun. To this day, and I know the current owner, the gun has operated perfectly.  How carbon and gunge can get into the bottom barrel firing pin is beyond me, but it DOES. The top pin was spotless when I removed that, and that pin is 'floating' (no spring).

Edited by Westley
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Having run a shooting ground for a good number of years, the most common cause of misfiring was 'USER ERROR' or trigger finger freeze. Browning/Miroku firing pins can be an issue but in my experience only in guns that have fired tens of thousands of cartridges. We had a club Miroku 3800 and I hate to think how many cartridges it had fired, it was loose, it rattled, BUT it kept on firing  !

Oh, and for those who think Browning/Miroku guns have 'light' triggers, they average 3 1/2 and 4 lbs. May I suggest your previous gun had 'heavy' triggers   ? 

I recall many years ago, loading for a guy (American) who had a pair of Westley Richards, single triggers of the 'Baker' variety, the selector is in the trigger and it is pushed forwards to shoot the left barrel first. The guy was complaining that the gun was switching barrels "all by itself".  I suggested that he remove his gloves, or at least the right one. Strangely enough, the problem 'cured' itself  ! 

Edited by Westley
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22 hours ago, steve1066 said:

So would you please explain what you mean by the trigger system needing some recoil for the inertia system.

Don't ask me what they're playing at but I assure that there are numerous complaints among skeet shooters in America of 725 trigger reset problem with very light loads when using sub gauge tubes. They have to send the guns in to have the inertia system modified just like most other guns.

Try searching on "trigger reset problems with browning 725".

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