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thepasty

Pump Club

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    Morning fellow pumpers,

                                              Been moving house etc etc from Cornwall to Devon, now 90% complete thank goodness, hence lack of 'comms'.

                                              I'd like to comment on a discussion a while ago on PC regarding the practicalities of 'slam fire'.  Owning or having recently done so, several Winchester '97's, Ithaca M37's and Winchester 62A, I have had the opportunity of timing of 5 rounds 'on target' (an old jerry can) at about 10 yards distant, against a Browning Auto5, Beretta A400 and BAR.

                                              Using 3 different experianced shooters, familar with the weapons (all Sec 1), in favourable outdoors conditions, the self loaders beat the pumps every time buy a margin of approx 50%, which surprised us.

                                            The reason is presumed to be the time the pumps took to 'return to target' before working the action, against the auto's reloading themselves during  the recoil phase of the cycle, thus all the shooter had to concentrate on was acquiring the target and squeezing the trigger we concluded. 

                                            Therefore assuming equal mechanical reliability, we found there is no advantage to the 'slam fire' of a pump against a self-loader, even at 'bayonet ranges'. Militarily, and with paper cases, pumps might have been found to be more reliable, with little/inexperianced/no maintenance, but we did'nt try dunking them in seawater etc at any point ! 

                                            Hope I'm not 'ejected' from PC as a consequence of these surprising findings. Thanks to Pete and Tony for their help in conducting this comparison, and to Carolyn for bringing endless refreshments in ear defenders! 

    Regards

    Steve

                                              

    Edited by stevethejeep
    miss spelling

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    Sounds like the only one not to enjoy that was Jerry and his can! :lol:

    very interesting though

    I think we are probably all agreed that 'slam fire' or 'trigger over-ride' is simply a by product of simple mechanical construction for reliability and longevity in an age without health and safety gremlins looking over everyone's shoulder. The terminology has probably been romanticised over the years for sales, ethos and ego, still a lot of fun though and not available on modern stuff!

    Edited by impala59

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    Yes indeed, and the assumption that pumps were issued to the Military in WW's 1&2 were probably due to:  a. Cost and b. Simplicity of cleaning and servicing 'in the field. Like the revolver vs automatic in the world of pistiols, the user is less likley to loose components of the gun whilst cleaning a pump than the semi auto. This is especially true when the barrel removes as easily as 1897's & M37's do.

    The timings ran from the 1st to 5th shot, with observations made to ensure all rounds hit the target, difference was approx 5 seconds for the pumps and 3 seconds for the autos.we did'nt bother with decimal points.  Unsurprisingly, the Winchester 69A was the fastest pump if my memory serves me well.

    The lawn mower beckons Grrrrr !

     

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    On 14/05/2018 at 15:30, stevethejeep said:

    Yes indeed, and the assumption that pumps were issued to the Military in WW's 1&2 were probably due to:  a. Cost and b. Simplicity of cleaning and servicing 'in the field. Like the revolver vs automatic in the world of pistiols, the user is less likley to loose components of the gun whilst cleaning a pump than the semi auto. This is especially true when the barrel removes as easily as 1897's & M37's do.

    The timings ran from the 1st to 5th shot, with observations made to ensure all rounds hit the target, difference was approx 5 seconds for the pumps and 3 seconds for the autos.we did'nt bother with decimal points.  Unsurprisingly, the Winchester 69A was the fastest pump if my memory serves me well.

     The lawn mower beckons Grrrrr !

     

    Was the Winchester 69A not a bolt action rifle? 

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    Could be a decent wingmaster for someone if they want it: https://www.the-saleroom.com/en-gb/auction-catalogues/southams-auctioneers-and-valuers/catalogue-id-srso10043/lot-a553588b-e5eb-42aa-93d0-a8da011aea61

     

    Scrummy

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    On ‎15‎/‎05‎/‎2018 at 17:51, theshootist said:

    Was the Winchester 69A not a bolt action rifle? 

    I believe that you are right and that Steve's is a 62A, designed by JMB and commonly known as the fastest slide (pump)action ever made (.22 so much shorter stroke and much less recoil than a shotgun)

    Awaiting being shot down in flames🙄

    9 hours ago, Scrumbag said:

    Could be a decent wingmaster for someone if they want it: https://www.the-saleroom.com/en-gb/auction-catalogues/southams-auctioneers-and-valuers/catalogue-id-srso10043/lot-a553588b-e5eb-42aa-93d0-a8da011aea61

     

    Scrummy

    Yeah saw that , price guide was a bit pessimistic, anyone in Bedford area would be advised to take a look before bidding

    Edited by impala59

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    Ah-ha 'I wondered when you'd spot that one' ............ as Captain Mannering would have said............. Yes Impala's quite correct I've a Winchester 62A .22rf rifle, which is a slide/pump action, and a delightful gun to use, and the first firearm I ever fired, at a shooting gallery in Wilson's funfair at Kenilworth in about 1960 when I was 11/12.  Slightly 'off topic' the same gallery was still in use with the same 62a's at Banbury (Oxon) steam fair in '01 or '02.

    Shan't be watching the 'wedding' probably trying to introduce a M37 to a magpie who is plundering the local 'tweety-birds' nests of eggs and chicks or catch trout in the river Exe.

    Happy Days,

    Steve

     

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    Now that sounds a much better way to spend a day, than watching a wedding that you have not been forced to go to.. 

    I shall be shooting clays with my model 12 and auto 5 before test riding a motorbike! Hooray! 

    Edited by theshootist
    typed too fast..

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    All 1st Class passtimes  Fulltime scores........ Magpies 0  M37s 1 ............ no score draw with the trout again!   Off to 'punch paper at local rifle club with 62a ............ at least the targets dont fly or swim away!

    Enjoy the glorious weather

     

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