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2 hours ago, Opossum said:

Part of me says to keep the Model 12 but another part says to sell it... because i want it :D

+1😀

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Afternoon Gents,

                                  Just to let you know that I've sold one of my Sec 1 ithaca M37's as advertised on Gunstar for £330 fairly easily, but not it's not the Deerslayer which has become a 'keeper', and very handy for local vermin control etc etc. 

                                  Off topic I know, but I'm after a 10 shot magazine for a Ruger 10/22 ........... anyone got one gathering dust somewhere??

Regards

Steve 

 

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Thanks for all your views regarding my model 12 /bps I have decided to put up the bps for sale. 

Matone I imagine you regret selling off your 16 bore model 12 I owned a 1920s 20 bore model 12 the first of the 2 3/4 chambered models it balanced and shot well but was well worn so I parted with it. It is a shame there is so little choice here for old classic pumps. I'd have a model 31 Remington in a heart beat if they were available and a good condition model 12 in 20 bore but they are hard to source. I was offered a pigeon grade model 12 a few years back needing a bit of work for £1500 but that was too dear for me.

My own model 12 has a bit of pitting in the barrel but shoots well the weight of the forearm will slide open the breech so it's very smooth I have a selection of cutts chokes for it and a newer steel choke which inserts into the cutts body so it is quite versatile but wouldn't be my first choice if there were a lot on the market.

 

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I`ve only used the 16 which was 26" and a 12 with 30" barrel which belonged to a friend .The long barrel made it quite `slow` if you know what I mean...

There were a lot in dealers when the restrictions on mag capacity came in,I heard of a 20b in its original packaging and unused that was given to one dealer at the time!!!

They do seem pretty rare now ,which is a shame.

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My 20 bore had a 26 inch barrel and balanced really well. I read in the American shooting sportsman magazine in an article on moment of inertia ie distribution of weight that the moi of the model 12 20 bore was close to that of a best side by side. It certainly swung well, I have  an orvis uplander 20 bore over and under a beretta with a straight hand stock and it balances exactly the same

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I sold a S1 Model 12 in 12 bore to make room for an off ticket Model 12 in 20 bore, which was also S1 once it made its way onto my ticket.  Both were as slick as a slick thing.

I don’t really regret selling the 20 but certainly the 12, and even more so it’s fitted wood, canvas and leather motor case. Both guns were takedown variants. 

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7 hours ago, stevethejeep said:

Afternoon Gents,

                                  Just to let you know that I've sold one of my Sec 1 ithaca M37's as advertised on Gunstar for £330 fairly easily, but not it's not the Deerslayer which has become a 'keeper', and very handy for local vermin control etc etc. 

                                  Off topic I know, but I'm after a 10 shot magazine for a Ruger 10/22 ........... anyone got one gathering dust somewhere??

Regards

Steve 

 

Yes the M37 market is fairly buoyant at the moment. Steve I have an archangel 25 round mag for a 1022 if you want it, only need to put 10 in if you wish! 

The M12 market borders on the silly sometimes, with wreckers being offered for £500 +

i agree with konor regarding M31, mine, long term loaned to a relative, was sold by him for next to nothing. A stronger, smoother gun would be hard to find.

it is encouraging to me that quite a number of us are preserving and using these old pumps, they have, in my opinion, a historical value as well as an increasing rarity value. 

My current wish list is Remington M17, M31 and Winchester M12. (All expensive unfortunately) and a new build M37 (seems impossible at the moment) I have a few in the pipeline and will share once I get them home and can photograph 

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There's some cracking model 12 s on the gunsinternational site some new in box pity there's no one importing and modifying to section 2 guess it's just too dear to make it worthwhile 

 

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I acquired a Black Warrior stock for my Ithaca 37, but it didn't seem particularly sturdy... the grip liked to move about and rotate when fired and didn't have enough support at the bottom end, wearing itself down under recoil, causing sloppiness. I designed and printed a reinforcing piece that supports the grip, distributing the recoil over the trigger guard and receiver instead of relying on the thin edges of the grip which wears down.

 

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42 minutes ago, Opossum said:

I acquired a Black Warrior stock for my Ithaca 37, but it didn't seem particularly sturdy... the grip liked to move about and rotate when fired and didn't have enough support at the bottom end, wearing itself down under recoil, causing sloppiness. I designed and printed a reinforcing piece that supports the grip, distributing the recoil over the trigger guard and receiver instead of relying on the thin edges of the grip which wears down.

 

 

 

 

Sorted piece of kit there O.

With your obvious skill at the 3d printing lark how about re-working the whole stock? 1 - change the profile so the cheek is parallel to the receiver top. 2 - rotate the pistol grip back about 5 or 10 degrees, make it rounder and increase the front to back measurement 10 mm or so. 3 - enhance your solid mounting into the grip itself. I'd buy a couple, even in orange!

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I find the cheek weld better than my wooden stock, it comes up way better for me... and the jaunty angle of the pistol grip is very 80's, like proto-tactical!

What I do need to do is 3D-print an Ithaca 37 that doesn't spit live shells onto the floor :D

An AR15 adaptor might be do-able, like one of those blocks that lets you attach an AR15 pistol grip and screw-in buffer tube stock

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BPS now off to the sales rack ,model 12 back in the cabinet I think it's the right decision. I thought the bps would be a good replacement for the 20 bore model 12 I sold but not as attached to it.

image.jpeg

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On 24/11/2018 at 23:43, impala59 said:

Yes the M37 market is fairly buoyant at the moment. Steve I have an archangel 25 round mag for a 1022 if you want it, only need to put 10 in if you wish! 

The M12 market borders on the silly sometimes, with wreckers being offered for £500 +

i agree with konor regarding M31, mine, long term loaned to a relative, was sold by him for next to nothing. A stronger, smoother gun would be hard to find.

it is encouraging to me that quite a number of us are preserving and using these old pumps, they have, in my opinion, a historical value as well as an increasing rarity value. 

My current wish list is Remington M17, M31 and Winchester M12. (All expensive unfortunately) and a new build M37 (seems impossible at the moment) I have a few in the pipeline and will share once I get them home and can photograph 

 

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Hello from a damp Devon,

                                                     Thanks for the offer of the 25 10/22 mag Impala, but it's an original 10shot I'm after as it doesn't protrude from the profile of the gun and get in the way or knocked about 

                                                     Nice woodwork on that new BPS the gentleman in Scotland's got, I'm very impressed with that !

Regards

Steve 

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Hi Steve the jeep,

Thanks for the compliment on the woodwork of my gun. It is actually a picture of my model 12 Winchester that is in my last post sitting on top of the browning box . The browning bps is inside the box and now for sale at Continental Shooting Supplies at Dalry North Ayrshire. If you look back a few posts there is a picture of my bps beside the model 12 ,an old A5 and a Beretta Extrema. Sorry for the confusion

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6 minutes ago, Konor said:

Hi Steve the jeep,

Thanks for the compliment on the woodwork of my gun. It is actually a picture of my model 12 Winchester that is in my last post sitting on top of the browning box . The browning bps is inside the box and now for sale at Continental Shooting Supplies at Dalry North Ayrshire. If you look back a few posts there is a picture of my bps beside the model 12 ,an old A5 and a Beretta Extrema. Sorry for the confusion

The stock is of a very nice grade but the fore end seems quite plain; do you know if it’s original? I would have thought it would have been of the classic ‘corn cob’ design. I have seen fore ends such as yours on other Winchester pumps, but can’t find one like it on a Model 12 in my book, but that doesn’t mean they didn’t put them on 12’s.

Edited by Scully

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Yes as far as I know it's original the picture makes the fore end look a bit plainer and the stock a bit fancier It's a while since I looked up my model 12 books but from memory it's either a skeet grade gun or field deluxe ,factory fitted cutts but for some reason the ventilated rib was removed I imagine either to lighten it or because it was damaged. But you could see the rib post marks on top of the barrel before I had it reblued. It was a popular skeet gun with the cutts barrel when new. It dates to about 1958 from memory.

Which book(s) do you have for reference ,l have got Dave Riffles book The Model 12 and Madis The Winchester Model 12 I could have a look at ,they are both specific to the model 12 and handy reference books

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I have dozens of old Guns and Ammo mag's dating from the 70's 80's and 90's plus various books by various authors, but my main Winchester source is 'Winchester An American Legend' by R.L. Wilson, and after saying I couldn't find an example like yours have done just that! It is described as a 'deluxe Model 12' and does indeed have a very nice stock and a fore end such as yours. It also has a vent rib. Fore ends such as yours are obviously much more common than I believed; I have also found an example with a solid rib and poly choke. It's a book worth having if you're a Winchester fan; I'll give the ones you mentioned a google also. Cheers.

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Madis book has a similar model 12 on pages 52  64  83. 106 and 108 Extension slide handles were quite common and standard for skeet grade guns whereas the corn cob slide was standard on the field grade models

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Hi Scully I have got Winchester Shotguns the book by Dennis Adler foreword by R L Wilson there's a lot in it and some cracking photographs . The two I mentioned earlier are supposedly definitive but  from memory their dating by serial number can vary a bit. I used to read the Guns and Ammo mag in the 1970s when there were less black guns and more sporting guns in it and I particularly liked a soft back shotgun book by Robert Stack the actor from the untouchables.

 

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Hi Scully thanks for the recommendation I'll look out for Winchester An American Legend writing on here has prompted me to look out books not used in over ten years another book should kick start my reading cheers

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3 hours ago, Konor said:

Hi Steve the jeep,

Thanks for the compliment on the woodwork of my gun. It is actually a picture of my model 12 Winchester that is in my last post sitting on top of the browning box . The browning bps is inside the box and now for sale at Continental Shooting Supplies at Dalry North Ayrshire. If you look back a few posts there is a picture of my bps beside the model 12 ,an old A5 and a Beretta Extrema. Sorry for the confusion

Hi Konor

Is the Cutts Compensator original? or added to make the 24" requirement. I ask because it certainly looks balanced as is. Hope to find one sometime

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Hi Impala,

yes the cutts is original and with it brings the total barrel length to 26 inches. When you add on the cutts chokes that again adds on length. The spreader choke and improved cylinder chokes are quite short and the full choke quite long about 3 inches or thereabouts There are chokes being made now that insert into the cutts body and are the length of the body and flush with the end of it and I have a 1/2 choke one of those. I have never patterned it but feel I should ,sometimes when you connect with the spreader choke the clay just disappears no black ink spot just gone or that’s how it appears from behind the gun Although the cutts is meant to devalue the gun they were very popular in their time and I like the novelty of it. The gun does balance very well and the smoothness of the pump encourages you to pump as you are shooting,I think they call that knowing how to run a pump in American speak. Best of luck in your quest

 

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