Guns at work

[HDAV]

M

 

He knows I shoot with the works team. He asked me outright and I thought honesty would be the best policy.

Scary stuff! Any word back from HQ?

[Asa Bear]

Surprisingly quiet. I know what the FLO has said to him and the content of the email sent to HQ.

 

I start nights tomorrow and will leave my chase up email until my last morning.

[HDAV]

SC rang police direct? Hmmmmm

[Asa Bear]

I have PMd you HDAV.

Edited March 12, 2013 by Logo

[HDAV]

Any news logo?

[Beretta06]

 

 

 

Really? Guns are the same risk as a paper weight? First, they are hazards, NOT risks!!

Sorry, you are both incorrect. The risk may be similar, but the hazard is hugely different.

 

Incidentally, the fire bobbies are not actually in charge of their buildings, they are just tenants. The buildings belong to county councils/ local government departments. Regardless of their own rules, LG rules will take primacy. Anyone thought to see what the council's take on guns might be??

 

I wouldn't rely on unions being any help. I still remember the last union strike for the fire service. They spent days out on stirke - costing them money - and returned on a worse deal than they were offered before they went on strike!!!! Hardly the sort of help that has benefits!

Edited March 14, 2013 by Beretta06

[HDAV]

 

 

Really? Guns are the same risk as a paper weight? First, they are hazards, NOT risks!!

Sorry, you are both incorrect. The risk may be similar, but the hazard is hugely different

 

Really? What hazard is caused by a shotgun stock in a locked locker? A paperweight be it brandished, thrown etc can be lethal but sat on a stable surface is very very low risk, similar to a part from a broken down shotgun wouldn't you say?

Edited March 14, 2013 by HDAV

[Asa Bear]

I know that the SC has had a response from my FLO & I know the FLO has no problem with my security arrangements.

 

I have asked my SC verbally if he has reviewed his decision to which he replied he is "looking into it".

 

[HDAV]

I have asked my SC verbally if he has reviewed his decision to which he replied he is "looking into it".

 

What he means is "I am frantically looking for a justification to back up my previous unfounded statement, so as not to look like a total incompetent"

[Asa Bear]

 

 

What he means is "I am frantically looking for a justification to back up my previous unfounded statement, so as not to look like a total incompetent"

 

 

[Beretta06]

 

 

Really? What hazard is caused by a shotgun stock in a locked locker? A paperweight be it brandished, thrown etc can be lethal but sat on a stable surface is very very low risk, similar to a part from a broken down shotgun wouldn't you say?

 

HDAV,

 

You appear to have your terminology confused between risk and hazard. A shotgun IS a HAZARD, it does not cause a hazard. It presents a RISK, the level of that risk determined by a number of influencing factors. Risk is based upon liklihood and frequency of an event happening, or being 'realised' as we say. HAZARD is something with POTENTIAL to cause harm or negative impact.

 

So, no hazard is ever caused by any shotgun (or stock, or part thereof) but only because it presents a risk :-)

 

The hazard is obvious - a shotgun (or stock) can be used for a number of inappropriate activities. For example, walk into a bank and show them the buttplate under your coat - they will presume the rest of the gun is there, they won't demand to see it before they believe you!!

 

If a gun (or parts) are in a place where people are not always around, in a storage area like a locker (not the strongest places in the world) the risk of it being stolen increases compared to when itmis stored at home etc. firemen will tell their loved ones and reiends about the saga of the bloke taking on the SC, the friends will tell their friends etc, so more and more people will know the gun may be there. Again, the more that know, the risk of theft will increase. The RISK of theft at Logo's home will also rise because people will know he owns guns through such discussions. Similar to his car being broken into - unsavoury folk will easily work out that his car may contain firearms if at the station.

 

With hindsight, I 'm not sure the risk exposure Logo has generated by posting this thread is worth the problems it may cause.

 

This is the IT age. I would suggest it would be very easy to work out Logo's identity :-(

 

So, the RISK of being a target of gun theft has gone up significantly for Logo. The HAZARD is Logo himself, bringing such a private matter into the public domain was NOT a smart thing to do :-(

Edited March 15, 2013 by Beretta06

[jasper3]

I am actually blown away by this thread... for one moment i honestly thought it was april the 1st

if the press read this..they would have a field day.... I can see the headlines now ..... SHOTGUN FIRE STATION ..... ARMED FIREMEN .... wonder what HQ would think of those headlines or better still ..FIREMEN STRIKE OVER 12 BORE

 

and lets be honest.... garden shears, squash rackets, paper weights etc etc do not need a Licence....

 

Unless you are paid (By the brigade) when you attend the brigade clay shoot... your shotgun has nothing to do with your job...

 

like i said before..if the press read this ..they will have a field day....

[TIGHTCHOKE]

HDAV,

 

You appear to have your terminology confused between risk and hazard. A shotgun IS a HAZARD, it does not cause a hazard. It presents a RISK, the level of that risk determined by a number of influencing factors. Risk is based upon liklihood and frequency of an event happening, or being 'realised' as we say. HAZARD is something with POTENTIAL to cause harm or negative impact.

 

So, no hazard is ever caused by any shotgun (or stock, or part thereof) but only because it presents a risk :-)

 

The hazard is obvious - a shotgun (or stock) can be used for a number of inappropriate activities. For example, walk into a bank and show them the buttplate under your coat - they will presume the rest of the gun is there, they won't demand to see it before they believe you!!

 

If a gun (or parts) are in a place where people are not always around, in a storage area like a locker (not the strongest places in the world) the risk of it being stolen increases compared to when itmis stored at home etc. firemen will tell their loved ones and reiends about the saga of the bloke taking on the SC, the friends will tell their friends etc, so more and more people will know the gun may be there. Again, the more that know, the risk of theft will increase. The RISK of theft at Logo's home will also rise because people will know he owns guns through such discussions. Similar to his car being broken into - unsavoury folk will easily work out that his car may contain firearms if at the station.

 

With hindsight, I 'nm not sure the risk exposure Logo has generated by posting this thread is worth the problems it may cause.

 

This is the IT age. I would suggest it would be very easy to work out Logo's identity :-(

 

So, the RISK of being a target of gun theft has gone up significantly for Logo. The HAZARD is Logo himself, bringing such a private matter into the public domain was NOT a smart thing to do :-(

 

 

BINGO!

[wymberley]

I am actually blown away by this thread... for one moment i honestly thought it was april the 1st

if the press read this..they would have a field day.... I can see the headlines now ..... SHOTGUN FIRE STATION ..... ARMED FIREMEN .... wonder what HQ would think of those headlines or better still ..FIREMEN STRIKE OVER 12 BORE

 

and lets be honest.... garden shears, squash rackets, paper weights etc etc do not need a Licence....

 

Unless you are paid (By the brigade) when you attend the brigade clay shoot... your shotgun has nothing to do with your job...

 

like i said before..if the press read this ..they will have a field day....

 

 

Never mind the press, Jasp - the cats up trees and the RSPCA should do it.

[Asa Bear]

The RISK of theft at Logo's home will also rise because people will know he owns guns through such discussions. Similar to his car being broken into - unsavoury folk will easily work out that his car may contain firearms if at the station.

 

With hindsight, I 'm not sure the risk exposure Logo has generated by posting this thread is worth the problems it may cause.

 

This is the IT age. I would suggest it would be very easy to work out Logo's identity :-(

 

So, the RISK of being a target of gun theft has gone up significantly for Logo. The HAZARD is Logo himself, bringing such a private matter into the public domain was NOT a smart thing to do :-(

 

 

Much like displaying a BASC sticker in your car.

 

Watch out chicken licken the sky is falling!

[Asa Bear]

I am actually blown away by this thread... for one moment i honestly thought it was april the 1st

if the press read this..they would have a field day.... I can see the headlines now ..... SHOTGUN FIRE STATION ..... ARMED FIREMEN .... wonder what HQ would think of those headlines or better still ..FIREMEN STRIKE OVER 12 BORE

 

and lets be honest.... garden shears, squash rackets, paper weights etc etc do not need a Licence....

 

Unless you are paid (By the brigade) when you attend the brigade clay shoot... your shotgun has nothing to do with your job...

 

like i said before..if the press read this ..they will have a field day....

 

That's a vivid imagination you've got there Jasper. Shotguns have been, quite lawfully, in and around fire stations for more years than I care to remember and I can't remember seeing a single sensationalist headline alluding to this.

[Vipa]

That's a vivid imagination you've got there Jasper. Shotguns have been, quite lawfully, in and around fire stations for more years than I care to remember and I can't remember seeing a single sensationalist headline alluding to this.

There you go again.... just because something is lawful doesn't mean your employer has to allow you to do it

Edited March 15, 2013 by Vipa

[Asa Bear]

 

There you go again.... just because something is lawful doesn't mean your employer has to allow you to do it

 

You can all you like vipa you're the one who doesn't get it. I'll try to explain it to you one more time.

 

The SC isn't my employer he is my manager. He has banned something that is allowed elsewhere within the organisation.

[HDAV]

If a gun (or parts) are in a place where people are not always around, in a storage area like a locker (not the strongest places in the world) the risk of it being stolen increases compared to when itmis stored at home etc. firemen will tell their loved ones and reiends about the saga of the bloke taking on the SC, the friends will tell their friends etc, so more and more people will know the gun may be there. Again, the more that know, the risk of theft will increase. The RISK of theft at Logo's home will also rise because people will know he owns guns through such discussions. Similar to his car being broken into - unsavoury folk will easily work out that his car may contain firearms if at the station.

 

With hindsight, I 'm not sure the risk exposure Logo has generated by posting this thread is worth the problems it may cause.

 

This is the IT age. I would suggest it would be very easy to work out Logo's identity :-(

 

So, the RISK of being a target of gun theft has gone up significantly for Logo. The HAZARD is Logo himself, bringing such a private matter into the public domain was NOT a smart thing to do :-(

WOW.....

[Vipa]

You can all you like vipa you're the one who doesn't get it. I'll try to explain it to you one more time.

 

The SC isn't my employer he is my manager. He has banned something that is allowed elsewhere within the organisation.

And I'll explain it one more time... it doesn't matter what other managers in the organisation allow or don't, in the absence of head office policy, the site manager (or his line management if they are involved,) have every right to decide what you can and cannot do in work time and on work premises particularly if it is non work related... I genuinely cannot understand why you cannot see this!Many, many years ago I was a branch Manager of Comet, if one of my sales team had asked if he could wear trainers to work, or bring his pet snake into work or even store his shotgun at work, the answer would have been no... On such matters my decision would have been final and the Regional management and Head Office would have backed me to the hilt!... why would the Firebrigade be any different!?

[al4x]

I still fail to see how dangerous a fore end is in a locker or why its classed as a weapon by so many. I thought it was a piece of wood basically,

[Asa Bear]

 

And I'll explain it one more time... it doesn't matter what other managers in the organisation allow or don't, in the absence of head office policy, the site manager (or his line management if they are involved,) have every right to decide what you can and cannot do in work time and on work premises particularly if it is non work related... I genuinely cannot understand why you cannot see this!Many, many years ago I was a branch Manager of Comet, if one of my sales team had asked if he could wear trainers to work, or bring his pet snake into work or even store his shotgun at work, the answer would have been no... On such matters my decision would have been final and the Regional management and Head Office would have backed me to the hilt!... why would the Firebrigade be any different!?

 

The fire brigade are different because we're not selling which is a good job cos you definitely ain't buying.

 

Now go and annoy someone else.

[Floating Chamber]

What the eyes don't see......

[Vipa]

I still fail to see how dangerous a fore end is in a locker or why its classed as a weapon by so many. I thought it was a piece of wood basically,

It's not Alex, that part of the argument is about other's perception of firearms or parts thereof... we, as responsible shooters have to accept that a lot of the non shooting UK population are terrified of anything to do with guns and should adjust our behaviour accordingly... that's not rolling over in embarrassment, it's just being sensible... The whole point of the OP was that he felt disgruntled that his boss had made a request that he didn't like... he should have just accepted and complied with his managers wishes and left it at that.

[overandunder2012]

I still fail to see how dangerous a fore end is in a locker or why its classed as a weapon by so many. I thought it was a piece of wood basically,

a part of a shot gun would be a different issue if he just came to work with the fore end he could honestly say he had not got a gun at work but if you spread bits between lockers and cars on the premises i think it would be viewed as a usable weapon.