Shocked

[southeastpete]

Its right that new shooters should ask questions but , like many on here I am concerned at the number of people who no not seem to have a clue what they can and cant shoot and yet have a SGC. It was unbelevable there was a guy who did not know the difference between a moorhen and a coot on the forum the other day. I and I dare say all the guys i shoot with knew that before we even thought about shooting and certantly well before our teenage years.[/i]

 

A basic grounding in our wildlife and countryside management is very important for anyone who shoots live quarry. When that is lacking at least members of this forum can point new shooters in the right direction , but how much attention is played to our advice I wonder if the asker does not have that basic grounding.

 

If you were talking about my post on duck ID then im afraid you read it wrong. I do know the difference between a coot and a moorhen. In that post I said I now have a permission with alot of ducks, and I am reading up up duck identification NOW to be ready for when the season starts. I can already ID quite a few, but its ones like goldeneye that I've never really seen before.

Just because someone hasnt phrased a question how you would, doesnt mean they are wrong, or stupid or irresponsible. Thats why i think people like the OP are closed minded. Surely you have enough intelligence to see the fact that these people are asking the right questions, before they go and do anything? And as for the people who are shocked by the number of people asking these supposedly stupid questions, how many are asking? 1 or 2 a week? Out of over half a million SGC holders?

 

I am SOOOO sorry that my dad doesnt shoot, and i wasnt able to pick up EVERYTHING to do with the countryside and shooting before i was 5. I am also SOOOO sorry if i ever ask a question from the shooting community through the useful resource of PW. And god forbid if I write it in a way, that as there is no intonation or body language on the internet, comes across differently to some people. (which from the replies, often tends to be the older ones)

[Joe99]

If you were talking about my post on duck ID then im afraid you read it wrong. I do know the difference between a coot and a moorhen. In that post I said I now have a permission with alot of ducks, and I am reading up up duck identification NOW to be ready for when the season starts. I can already ID quite a few, but its ones like goldeneye that I've never really seen before.

Just because someone hasnt phrased a question how you would, doesnt mean they are wrong, or stupid or irresponsible. Thats why i think people like the OP are closed minded. Surely you have enough intelligence to see the fact that these people are asking the right questions, before they go and do anything? And as for the people who are shocked by the number of people asking these supposedly stupid questions, how many are asking? 1 or 2 a week? Out of over half a million SGC holders?

 

I am SOOOO sorry that my dad doesnt shoot, and i wasnt able to pick up EVERYTHING to do with the countryside and shooting before i was 5. I am also SOOOO sorry if i ever ask a question from the shooting community through the useful resource of PW. And god forbid if I write it in a way, that as there is no intonation or body language on the internet, comes across differently to some people. (which from the replies, often tends to be the older ones)

[Big Mat]

 

 

I am SOOOO sorry that my dad doesnt shoot, and i wasnt able to pick up EVERYTHING to do with the countryside and shooting before i was 5. I am also SOOOO sorry if i ever ask a question from the shooting community through the useful resource of PW. And god forbid if I write it in a way, that as there is no intonation or body language on the internet, comes across differently to some people. (which from the replies, often tends to be the older ones)

 

What is the point of having an attitude like that? It does not help one bit in a sensible discussion.

 

I agree with barrold, its how you approach people. If you give the wrong first impression/act like a tool, then of course people are going to get abit worried, it human nature.

 

For all these people coming across badly, how much effort does it take to search for something on the internet to get a basic knowledge? Rather than saying you have had enough of clays or whatever and want to kill everything.

 

The comment about dads not shooting or being able to pick up everything about the countryside, well i think you are way off the mark with that one completely.

[wildfowler.250]

It's definitely a lot more tempting for folk to write something in here in 10 seconds than to bother with any initial research. Just like sending a text rather than bothering to make a phone call.

[pontbeck]

It's definitely a lot more tempting for folk to write something in here in 10 seconds than to bother with any initial research. Just like sending a text rather than bothering to make a phone call.

 

That`s a very good analogy

[anser2]

Pete you are not alone in not having a shooting dad , mine did not shoot ether.

[Reabrook]

Neither did mine I had to learn the hard way. I can usually spot some one badly phrasing a reasonable question and respond accordingly. That means I can also spot those whose attitude and approach doesn't warrant a decent reply and respond accordingly to that as well if I wish to do so. Like I and others have said its all about approach, come over like an **** and you'll get treated like one

[fabarm gamma boy]

Abit of common sense can go along way, think about what your saying to somebody when asking a question about something you know little about! Im lucky to have been shown alot of the skills a knowledge i use today from my grandfather as a child, others have not had this and are walking into the sport blindfolded! I have no problem helping somebody. But its got to be asked in the right way im not saying beg or something but showing that they are a mature enought to go about it in the right manner! If sombody asked me to help them get into the sport to kill things i would show them the door!! But if somebody says im realy interested in pigeon shooting id love to learn and possibly start Decoying ect myself! Id be more than happy to help new people get into our sport!! So i see both sides of the debate! Personaly i was abit green when i joined the sport and i suspect we all were but but now the tables have turned and we are the ones who are able to help! Just remember thst

[pontbeck]

Very sensible post. I 've been following this thread and can see both sides and this post sums it up for me

[-Mongrel-]

Its right that new shooters should ask questions but , like many on here I am concerned at the number of people who no not seem to have a clue what they can and cant shoot and yet have a SGC.

Why? You don't need to be shooting at anything to gain a SGC. I was asked what I wanted one for and said it was for clays, at no point was it checked as to whether I went on to do that. Had I been so inclined, I could have bought a gun 'Just in case!'.

Everybody starts somewhere, and for an increasing number I suspect that somewhere is from a point of ignorance. You then go on to learn what you need to, and if that is via PW, is that such a bad thing?

 

A basic grounding in our wildlife and countryside management is very important for anyone who shoots live quarry. When that is lacking at least members of this forum can point new shooters in the right direction , but how much attention is paid to our advice I wonder, if the asker does not have that basic grounding.

Surely if they have taken the time and trouble to ask the question, they will at least look at the information they receive and make a judgement from there? Personally, when I wanted to try 'fowling I joined a club with the knowledge that I would be a probationer for a full season and then tested at the end of it, that was after asking a few questions on here. As SGC holders we are supposed to be a responsible bunch, yet people who don't have the knowledge and ask the questions are somehow being vilified almost, as inadequate.

Edited March 12, 2013 by -Mongrel-

[Reabrook]

people who don't have the knowledge and ask the questions are somehow being vilified almost, as inadequate.

 

You must be incredibly sensitive if that is truly how you feel.

[-Mongrel-]

You must be incredibly sensitive if that is truly how you feel.

 

Hahahahaha, no buddy, that's not how I personally feel about things that are said to me, my skins plenty thick enough to deal with any on here, but a new shooter who asks what he/she feels is a valid question, only to be shot down in flames or even to be told they don't deserve to be in possession of a certificate because they don't have that knowledge, isn't very likely to stick around, or ask another question come to that are they?

[WGD]

Seeking knowledge, irrespective of how it's done, is better than staying ignorant. There are a lot of knowledgable people on here, some less so. Experienced people will know the difference, inexperienced people will not and therefore have no benchmark.

 

Google many frequently asked shooting questions and PW is near the top of the results, or at least it used to be.

 

Shooting game or vermin is about killing. I enjoy killing a pheasant cleanly, or dropping a roe on the spot but it isn't always as clean cut as that. The desire to hunt, and to kill, is there in people who shoot birds and animals. It is not blood lust, and respect for the quarry is paramount but it is also something that is learned. Call that desire hunting instinct, or whatever you like. What drives us to do it? I don't know, I was not raised in a shooting family - not even a distant relative - but I remember driving past men with guns and dogs as a child in my parents car and thinking "I want to do that". Why? Don't know. I was fortunate enough to have been brought up in a rural community and so the countryside and ways of it, and the associated terminology, were not strangers to me even although I did not shoot. Had I been brought up in a town with no knowledge of the way the countryside worked, but with that same desire to hunt, perhaps the way I asked my questions may have been unpalatable for some?

 

[Reabrook]

 

 

Hahahahaha, no buddy, that's not how I personally feel about things that are said to me, my skins plenty thick enough to deal with any on here, but a new shooter who asks what he/she feels is a valid question, only to be shot down in flames or even to be told they don't deserve to be in possession of a certificate because they don't have that knowledge, isn't very likely to stick around, or ask another question come to that are they?

The only thing I can think then is your either reading a differant forum of live in a completely differant world to me.

[anser2]

My quote "Its right that new shooters should ask questions but , like many on here I am concerned at the number of people who no not seem to have a clue what they can and cant shoot and yet have a SGC."

 

Mongrel Quote

Why? You don't need to be shooting at anything to gain a SGC.

 

If you do not understand that everyone should have an understanding of the quarry list and how to ID it then perhaps you should question your ownership of your SGC. You are right everyone has to start somewhere , but after you have pulled the trigger is not the time to start. You should have a through grounding well before that.

[Terry P]

My quote "Its right that new shooters should ask questions but , like many on here I am concerned at the number of people who no not seem to have a clue what they can and cant shoot and yet have a SGC."

 

Mongrel Quote

Why? You don't need to be shooting at anything to gain a SGC.

 

If you do not understand that everyone should have an understanding of the quarry list and how to ID it then perhaps you should question your ownership of your SGC. You are right everyone has to start somewhere , but after you have pulled the trigger is not the time to start. You should have a through grounding well before that.

 

Agree totally Robert

[bruno22rf]

I guess that the internet has become a fast track entry into the way of the countryside.When I started shooting I could identify just about every bird that I was likely to encounter and having been born in a small village I was accustomed to the way of the wild.Some of todays guns seem to have grown up with the countryside around them in pixels and the likes of youtube have become their bible.We all need to avoid petty bickering and share the wealth of experience that we have earned with anybody attempting to join in this sport of ours,no matter how they arrive here.Sometimes peoples use of the english language dictates that they may pose questions differently than others and come over as reckless or inept which may be wide of the mark.There are no stupid questions but ,if you need to know something,its stupid not to ask.

[southeastpete]

My quote "Its right that new shooters should ask questions but , like many on here I am concerned at the number of people who no not seem to have a clue what they can and cant shoot and yet have a SGC."

 

Mongrel Quote

Why? You don't need to be shooting at anything to gain a SGC.

 

If you do not understand that everyone should have an understanding of the quarry list and how to ID it then perhaps you should question your ownership of your SGC. You are right everyone has to start somewhere , but after you have pulled the trigger is not the time to start. You should have a through grounding well before that.

Totally disagree. You could get a shotgun solely to shoot clays, and have no intention of seeking live quarry. Then a year later develop an interest. Then you would go and start asking questions. You may find out about pigeon shooting, and easily recognise pigeons, get permission etc and go and shoot them. Then you may think, I'd like to expand and try pheasant, or duck shooting. So you could have a sgc for years and still know nothing about shooting geese or pheasant, that doesn't mean your ANY LESS responsible than any other shooter.

[Spaniel]

I was in my late 30s when i first fired a shotgun at some clays.

Really enjoyed the experience and got around to applying for the SG cert.

It took me about 5 years before i moved on to pigeon shooting and that was after we got permission on some farm land, have to say i enjoyed it.

It took me until my mid 40s before i looked into wildfowling and i joined the GWA and for the last few years i have been aranging the club taster flights.

So shooting is not in my family anywhere, other then on the Wifes side.

 

So you do not need to understand or even think about quarry unless you are going to shoot it.

The only way to learn just as I had to do over 10 years ago is to ask questions, use the web to gather info.or join a club and get a mentor who will learn you the ropes etc.

 

Maybe we need a ID section on here to assist new comers to the sport

[southeastpete]

+1 spaniel, with a little info on each quarry such a recomended shot/calibre, seasons, and preparation tips!

now whos going to put in the graft..?

[-Mongrel-]

I was in my late 30s when i first fired a shotgun at some clays.

Really enjoyed the experience and got around to applying for the SG cert.

It took me about 5 years before i moved on to pigeon shooting and that was after we got permission on some farm land, have to say i enjoyed it.

It took me until my mid 40s before i looked into wildfowling and i joined the GWA and for the last few years i have been aranging the club taster flights.

So shooting is not in my family anywhere, other then on the Wifes side.

So you do not need to understand or even think about quarry unless you are going to shoot it.

 

And I'm sure you're not alone, in fact I know you're not as I'm exactly the same and I'm equally sure that like us, there are plenty of people who learn what they need to as they go along.

Anser2 made a comment earlier along the lines of 'If you do not understand that everyone should understand the quarry list and how to ID then perhaps you should question your ownership of your SGC.' which I couldn't be bothered to answer as it would just be repeating myself. But it's bloody obvious that you don't need any ability to identify quarry if you only shoot clays, and as for questioning my SGC ownership, that is exactly the type of idiotic, negative comment that would put off a newbie from asking another question whereas I, being thicker skinned, just stick with thinking 'muppet!'.

Edited March 13, 2013 by -Mongrel-

[wymberley]

+1 spaniel, with a little info on each quarry such a recomended shot/calibre, seasons, and preparation tips!

now whos going to put in the graft..?

 

Do you know, that's a brilliant idea.

 

Now, there's nothing new under the sun so no one will be surprised that although it didn't develop as intended - to include additional schemes for the sporting rifle and sporting air rifle - the BASC had a really good set up running but it's now defunct. I still think that sooner or later we're going to regret the loss of this voluntary course at exactly the same moment something mandatory from Europe lands in our communal lap.

 

This BASC set up was known as the Proficiency Award Scheme.

[Spaniel]

Now if you want a really good idea, dont we know someone who as been developing an App for the Iphone and Android and i wonder if they could take there App one step further to include this sort of info

 

Im just amazing this time on an evening...lol

[Joe99]

And I'm sure you're not alone, in fact I know you're not as I'm exactly the same and I'm equally sure that like us, there are plenty of people who learn what they need to as they go along.

Anser2 made a comment earlier along the lines of 'If you do not understand that everyone should understand the quarry list and how to ID then perhaps you should question your ownership of your SGC.' which I couldn't be bothered to answer as it would just be repeating myself. But it's bloody obvious that you don't need any ability to identify quarry if you only shoot clays, and as for questioning my SGC ownership, that is exactly the type of idiotic, negative comment that would put off a newbie from asking another question whereas I, being thicker skinned, just stick with thinking 'muppet!'.

Totally agree mate. I told myself I wouldn't come back to this thread, but that comment caught my eye. Once again, the self-appointed guardians passing judgement on who is the "right sort" for "their" sport.

[Terry P]

Why all the high horse stuff, some are saying they learn as the go along and find out about the next chosen quarry before they go out and some are saying you should be aware of what you are shooting before you pull the trigger, isn't that the same thing and same end result?