Reabrook Posted March 13, 2013 Report Share Posted March 13, 2013 Why all the high horse stuff, some are saying they learn as the go along and find out about the next chosen quarry before they go out and some are saying you should be aware of what you are shooting before you pull the trigger, isn't that the same thing and same end result? Steady on with the common sense there Terry!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-Mongrel- Posted March 13, 2013 Report Share Posted March 13, 2013 (edited) Scrapped post...because I really can't be ***** with the nit picking. Edited March 13, 2013 by -Mongrel- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anser2 Posted March 13, 2013 Report Share Posted March 13, 2013 Mongrel and Pete , As this is a wildfowling section and ther was no previous mention of clay shooting its pretty pbvious I was talking about people getting a SGC for wildfowling. I am quite well aware that you can get a SGC for just shooting clays , but even here i would a beginer to have some pertty basic idea on the rules , safety and methods of clay shooting. I started the other way around shooting wild quarry before shooting clays, but before i did shoot clays I read a number of books on the subject and watched the guys who did it before taking a gun. I never thought I would say this , but maybe its time we had a shooting test like a driving test before anyone could pick up a gun. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southeastpete Posted March 14, 2013 Report Share Posted March 14, 2013 Yes, anser, but the op linked to posts that 'shocked' him. one being a chap who had got a shotgun to go with friends to shoot pheasant, then just to shoot clays as he lost touch with this friend, but would like to get back into shooting live quarry. Apparently this is shocking to the op. Why all the high horse stuff, some are saying they learn as the go along and find out about the next chosen quarry before they go out and some are saying you should be aware of what you are shooting before you pull the trigger, isn't that the same thing and same end result? No, that is not what was said. what was said was that if you cannot readily identify all of the quarry species on the general license, then you shouldnt be allowed a SGC. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Marshall Posted March 14, 2013 Report Share Posted March 14, 2013 Do you know, that's a brilliant idea. Now, there's nothing new under the sun so no one will be surprised that although it didn't develop as intended - to include additional schemes for the sporting rifle and sporting air rifle - the BASC had a really good set up running but it's now defunct. I still think that sooner or later we're going to regret the loss of this voluntary course at exactly the same moment something mandatory from Europe lands in our communal lap. This BASC set up was known as the Proficiency Award Scheme. The sporting Rifle courses are still going. The proficency Award Scheme is now a National qualification delivered by colleges around the country. It is known as the Principles of Live Quarry Shooting by NPTC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wymberley Posted March 14, 2013 Report Share Posted March 14, 2013 The sporting Rifle courses are still going. The proficency Award Scheme is now a National qualification delivered by colleges around the country. It is known as the Principles of Live Quarry Shooting by NPTC It's good to hear that GT's (and all of the other BASC staff involved) work wasn't wasted and is still being put to good use. The fact remains that the Sporting Shotgun PAS, together with the two non starters - the sporting rifle (all quarry, not just deer which are/were already well catered for) and the sporting air rifle - are no longer/never were where they should have been - available to all members at the extremely reasonable cost because of the involvement of the volunteer workforce - the Hon REDOs (HEOs) and TOs. At one HEO meeting at t' Mill a straw poll was taken relating to the need for compulsory testing before licences would be issued for live quarry shooting. The result staggered the meeting chairman (who wasn't then but is now!) who promptly then asked the then head of education if there were contingency plans in place should this occur. No, there wasn't. I sincerely hope there is now as I feel that it is inevitable that we will be hit by legislation from Europe and possibly from our own Parliament. We don't want it. We don't need it. But unless we can prove that we have an alternative viable product (PAS was rated by FACE to be an acceptable standard within Europe) then we're going to get it sooner or later. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-Mongrel- Posted March 14, 2013 Report Share Posted March 14, 2013 (edited) I have not really took a look in all the other topics on this site for some time. I have a look at sale items occasionally but usually look in here. I have a day off the Pigeons due to the weather so thought I would have a look at what goes on in other subjects...and guys I AM SHOCKED. I have read some things that I had to read more than once to believe..I will copy & paste just a couple of the things I read. Guys, Its a pleasure to read our section. I read where one guy wants to go shoot something other than clays ..The first time he went on a game shoot he expected Pheasants to be in 'flocks' ..'How do I go about getting a shoot? What am I legally allowed to shoot with an SGC?'........ I don't really care what I shoot.. I just want to shoot something other than Clays ! The original post discussing someone who initially shot clays and wanted to move on, shocker was they asked some 'silly' questions, but they did ask them before pulling the trigger. As this is a wildfowling section and ther was no previous mention of clay shooting its pretty pbvious I was talking about people getting a SGC for wildfowling. I am quite well aware that you can get a SGC for just shooting clays , but even here i would a beginer to have some pertty basic idea on the rules , safety and methods of clay shooting. I started the other way around shooting wild quarry before shooting clays, but before i did shoot clays I read a number of books on the subject and watched the guys who did it before taking a gun. I never thought I would say this , but maybe its time we had a shooting test like a driving test before anyone could pick up a gun. What you've morphed it into. It wasn't obvious that you were talking about wildfowling. You're now backpeddling from your 'Everyone should be able to ID all quarry' to 'I'd expect a clay shooter to know some basic rules etc', bit of a step back. Shooting test? Great idea, put another obstacle in the way of new blood into the sport. Do us both a favour, next time you want to tell someone they aren't fit to hold a SGC, pick on someone smaller. I stand by my original assessment, and this is my final input into this thread.. Edited March 14, 2013 by -Mongrel- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reabrook Posted March 14, 2013 Report Share Posted March 14, 2013 The original post discussing someone who initially shot clays and wanted to move on, shocker was they asked some 'silly' questions, but they did ask them before pulling the trigger. What you've morphed it into. It wasn't obvious that you were talking about wildfowling. You're now backpeddling from your 'Everyone should be able to ID all quarry' to 'I'd expect a clay shooter to know some basic rules etc', bit of a step back. Shooting test? Great idea, put another obstacle in the way of new blood into the sport. Do us both a favour, next time you want to tell someone they aren't fit to hold a SGC, pick on someone smaller. I stand by my original assessment, and this is my final input into this thread.. Pick on someone smaller. Is this some sort of joke. Do you think you've won some sort of moral crusade? You accused someone earlier of being a Muppet. Following that latest post I'd suggest your the muppet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southeastpete Posted March 14, 2013 Report Share Posted March 14, 2013 He probably doesnt want new blood in the sport. He probably wants an old boys club... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wymberley Posted March 14, 2013 Report Share Posted March 14, 2013 He probably doesnt want new blood in the sport. He probably wants an old boys club... In some instances, it's becoming increasingly obvious why that would be. Similarly, some points of view and comments could well drive some new potential shooters away thinking that they want nothing to do with such attitudes and head for the nearest golf course instead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wymberley Posted March 14, 2013 Report Share Posted March 14, 2013 The sporting Rifle courses are still going. The proficency Award Scheme is now a National qualification delivered by colleges around the country. It is known as the Principles of Live Quarry Shooting by NPTC Peter, This is the first I've heard of this qualification being,shall we say, formalized. It begs the question; could a PAS certificate holder 'trade in' his/her PAS Certificate for the NPTC Level 2 version? Just a thought. Cheers, Phil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Marshall Posted March 19, 2013 Report Share Posted March 19, 2013 (edited) BASC has a number initiatives, awards and courses for all wishing to improve themselves or take up another sector of the sport Here are just a few BASC Coaches BASC Approved Trainers BASC Shotgun Safe Shot Basic Metallic Cartridge Reloading Course Carcase Inspection and Butchery Deer Stalking - Intermediate Deer Courses Deer Stalking Pre-DSC1 course Deer Stalking Certificate - DSC1 Deer Stalking Certificate - DSC2 Firearms Awareness Courses Improve your shooting with BASC Introduction to woodpigeon shooting Novice Dogs for Deer Course Safety Officers Course Sporting Rifle Course Wild Game Meat Hygiene Level 2 (FSA) Training Dates & Venues The Handbook of Shooting is a good starting point, published by BASC, we also have a quarry ID guide available on the web amongst 175 other guidance documents. Please drop me an e-mail if you are looking for particular guidance or courses. Many thanks, Peter Peter.marshall@basc.org.uk Edited March 19, 2013 by Peter Marshall Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wymberley Posted March 19, 2013 Report Share Posted March 19, 2013 BASC has a number initiatives, awards and courses for all wishing to improve themselves or take up another sector of the sport Here are just a few BASC Coaches BASC Approved Trainers BASC Shotgun Safe Shot Basic Metallic Cartridge Reloading Course Carcase Inspection and Butchery Deer Stalking - Intermediate Deer Courses Deer Stalking Pre-DSC1 course Deer Stalking Certificate - DSC1 Deer Stalking Certificate - DSC2 Firearms Awareness Courses Improve your shooting with BASC Introduction to woodpigeon shooting Novice Dogs for Deer Course Safety Officers Course Sporting Rifle Course Wild Game Meat Hygiene Level 2 (FSA) Training Dates & Venues The Handbook of Shooting is a good starting point, published by BASC, we also have a quarry ID guide available on the web amongst 175 other guidance documents. Please drop me an e-mail if you are looking for particular guidance or courses. Many thanks, Peter Peter.marshall@basc.org.uk Peter, Should that be an answer to the question posed at Post #61, I'll take it as a, 'no', then. Cheers, Phil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Marshall Posted March 19, 2013 Report Share Posted March 19, 2013 No - but you will have already covered the syllabus and the PAS is the Principles of Live Quarry shooting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wymberley Posted March 19, 2013 Report Share Posted March 19, 2013 No - but you will have already covered the syllabus and the PAS is the Principles of Live Quarry shooting. Peter, thank you. I didn't ask for my benefit. When it was introduced, the BASC boasted (which was justified in my book) that PAS was considered by FACE to be at an acceptable level, matching the requirements that various European countries demanded of their hunters. Certainly, all my students, and I'm pretty sure those of all the other Hon REDOs/HEOs were told not to lose their certificates as if push came to shove, given the qualification, they would be exempt any requirement for further mandatory assessment (shotguns). Excluding the possibility of Grandfathers' rights, It would be a betrayal if that proved not to be the case and particularly so as I'm pretty sure that the PQLS is not as comprehensive as the original. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Marshall Posted March 19, 2013 Report Share Posted March 19, 2013 name='wymberley' timestamp='1363699432' post='2105929']Peter, thank you. I didn't ask for my benefit. When it was introduced, the BASC boasted (which was justified in my book) that PAS was considered by FACE to be at an acceptable level, matching the requirements that various European countries demanded of their hunters. Certainly, all my students, and I'm pretty sure those of all the other Hon REDOs/HEOs were told not to lose their certificates as if push came to shove, given the qualification, they would be exempt any requirement for further mandatory assessment (shotguns). Excluding the possibility of Grandfathers' rights, It would be a betrayal if that proved not to be the case and particularly so as I'm pretty sure that the PQLS is not as comprehensive as the original. [/u] We maintain a register of those who took the PAS, and indeed it would be a good idea to keep your certificates should they ever be required in the future. The Principles of Live Quarry Shooting is just as comprehensive as the original if not more so. Peter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wymberley Posted March 19, 2013 Report Share Posted March 19, 2013 We maintain a register of those who took the PAS, and indeed it would be a good idea to keep your certificates should they ever be required in the future. The Principles of Live Quarry Shooting is just as comprehensive as the original if not more so. Peter Peter, Thank you. That is good news and is just the answer I was hoping for. I'm pretty certain that it won't matter to me in the short term, but who knows for the future. Phil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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