What would a Ukip Britain look like?

[kdubya]

It's got nothing whatsoever to do with governing ourselves as we can definitely do that it has everything to do with free trade and rights of UK citizens to live through the eu. That's before you elect a party based on one political agenda. The fact is a vote for ukip is effectively a vote for labour, to some of us that's a horrendous thought

"

ER hang on labour flooded the country with non skilled immigrant "workers" ( term used loosely) labour is nothing more than a sycophant europhile organisation!

 

UKIP wants an end to mass immigration and out of Europe so how in gods name do you consider a vote for Ukip a vote for labour or are you saying it will draw votes from the cons IE another bunch of clueless cretins who have more reason to be hung for treason than Guy Fawkes, or is your real worry the prospect of losing a source of cheap (less than min wage) labour

 

KW

[Reece]

Again, this is a counsel of dispair. Implicit in this argument is the false assumption that we cannot govern ourselves in out own best interest. We have become so habituated, so infantilised by our political impotence that we have become afraid to govern ourselves. This is precisely the effect the architects of the EU intended with their in exorable but almost imperceptibly slow erosion of the nation state. As I said earlier, we are living under colonial rule and no one under 50 knows anything different. Britain is suffering from collective Stockholm Syndrome, a delusional state where a person held captive comes to see their captor as their protector. It is a means of preserving sanity in the absence of practical help. It should be a warning not an article of faith.

All over the world there are functioning democracies which do not exist within Soviet collectives and yet they manage perfectly well. There are millions of people from outside the EU living and owning property in Europe. They do not have their assets frozen. They do not get deported. There are millions of companies outside the EU trading with countries within it. Grown up governance and normal traffic between nations is perfectly possible. Everyone else is doing it.

Europe has ruled the world for 1000 years. That era is over. Europe is in decline. It will not recover its former status. The rest of the world has caught up and moved ahead. And has it not occured to anyone that there are millions of people in other European countries who would also like to be rid of the EU. The idea that we will shiver to death in lonely north Atlantic exile without our EU comfort blanket is poppycock. Britain has allies; and Cameron is right about one thing: Europe does need us. it needs us to lead the way out of the toxic morass it has created for itself.

 

Well said.

 

It's got nothing whatsoever to do with governing ourselves as we can definitely do that it has everything to do with free trade and rights of UK citizens to live through the eu. That's before you elect a party based on one political agenda. The fact is a vote for ukip is effectively a vote for labour, to some of us that's a horrendous thought

 

If there was an election tomorrow, then yes it would be.

But UKIP support is growing all the time and shows no sign of stopping.

UKIP may be a vote for Labour at the moment, but once their support level gets past a certain point it will be a vote for UKIP and not Labour. The only thing which keeps UKIP in the situation it is in now is that the growth in support isn't quick enough, and a major reason for that is people who won't vote for them because they fear it would just help Labour. So weirdly, a major thing which keeps a UKIP vote effectively a Labour vote is the people who say that voting UKIP will only help Labour.

This is why people need to ignore the people who moan about UKIP being a wasted vote. If UKIP support keeps growing they will become a party with real power.

Besides, Labour and the Conseratives are just as bad as each other.

 

Where do you get this idea that UKIP are a single issue party?

 

We cannot govern ourselves when in the EU, their rules override our own government and the only way to change this is to leave altogether. However, I wouldn't be opposed to a simple free trade agreement, that is what we now know as the EU once was. That way we get the main benefits (no matter how exaggerated they are) without any of the drawbacks. Economic cooperation isn't a bad idea, but political union is what we have at the moment and it is a terrible idea.

Sovereignty is vital, and the fact that some people consider sovereignty an optional extra that we can discard is extremely worrying. When people say the EU is good for our economy and this means we should stay in, they're effectively putting a price on Britain's sovereignty, something which you can't really put a price on.

[sandspider]

Chart: How much does Britain pay into the EU and what does it get back?

 

By THIS IS MONEY REPORTERS

UPDATED: 14:42, 1 August 2012

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Does Britain really put much more into Europe than it gets out? How have our contributions risen and fallen? This chart reveals how the EU works for us.

 

Enlarge

 

Being a member of the European Union has been a one-way street for Britain. Contributions from Britain to the EU budget have outstripped the benefits received in every single year of membership.

In total since 1979, Britain has paid in about €260 billion (£228 billion). It has received back in benefits just €163 billion (£143 billion). The difference of €97 billion (£85 billion at today’s exchange rate) has been Britain’s subsidy to the European project.

Each nation’s contribution is based mainly on its Gross National Income, a measure of its economic output and earnings from overseas. The budget is spent on a range of projects to do with agriculture, fisheries, social projects and other Brussels subsidies.

Britain’s contribution figure would have been even higher had it not been for Margaret Thatcher’s tough stance in 1984, when she famously negotiated a rebate on the basis that the vast bulk of EU spending went on agricultural subsidies and Britain received a far lower proportion of this than other nations.

Under the terms of the rebate, Britain’s contributions were cut while other countries which benefited most from agricultural subsidies (mainly France) paid more.

Since 1985 Britain’s rebate has been worth a total of almost €90 billion (£79 billion at today’s exchange rate). Though as our graph shows, Britain’s contributions have still consistently far outstripped the benefits it receives.

The rebate would have been higher in recent years had not Tony Blair given up part of it under pressure from EU leaders. He agreed to cut it by about 20 per cent from 2007 until the next round of budget negotiations in 2013. So far, his concession has cost Britain about £4 billion.

 

 

Read more: http://www.thisismon...l#ixzz2NYgNLimr

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I understand that we make more from the EU than it costs us? My MP told me this when I asked him, and did send me a set of EU accounts. I'll have to root them out and try and make sense of them. Also, the where does my money go website suggests that we make a net profit from EU membership - http://wheredoesmymoneygo.org/dailybread.html (Click on the Running Government section, and the figure for the European Union is negative)

I think on balance I'm in favour of leaving the EU, but it would be nice to see some trustworthy impartial figures rather than pro- and anti-EU propaganda.

[sandspider]

I've just found the e-mail - it actually states:

 

As a net contributor to the EU Budget, the UK receives no direct financial gain; however, the trade and employment benefits of being in the single market are believed by this Government and the previous one to outweigh the cost incurred through the Budget.

Edited March 15, 2013 by sandspider

[Vince Green]

It seems like a difficult choice, jump ship or stay. The European ship is bogged down with political and financial corruption and self interest but it is somehow comfortable. In my life, marriages, jobs, businesses when i reached the point where I felt it was time to go I walked.

 

i would be prepared to walk away from Europe. The trouble is that we can't walk away from the useless ***** that form the political cross party 'elite' in this country. Irrespective of party or political belief they are all total lightweights. AND THEY ARE ALL TOTALLY INCOMPETENT!

 

Given their backgrounds if they were any good as people they would have gone into the city and been earning multi million pound bonuses. Politicians are the failures, the ones that are not good enough to make the grade in the real world. Car park yourself in a safe seat and make a career out slagging off the opposition and making sound bites for the six oclock news.

 

Can't we just see these people as useless loosers, by-pass them and employ some people with real ability and skill to run the country?. I'm not singling them out particularly because I think they would be ideal candidates but Alan Sugar or Richard Branson would be more believeable. There are better people out there.

 

Our politicians are some of the most worryingly bad people I could imagine. I wouldn't trust them to run a chip shop in a provincial town much less the country. Whats wrong with employing good people to run the country rather that having to elect misfits? If you have to pay them mega salaries well OK. None of the present crop of wasters have ever had a proper job in their lives.

Edited March 15, 2013 by Vince Green

[Gimlet]

i would be prepared to walk away from Europe. The trouble is that we can't walk away from the useless ***** that form the political cross party 'elite' in this country. Irrespective of party or political belief they are all total lightweights. AND THEY ARE ALL TOTALLY INCOMPETENT!

 

Given their backgrounds if they were any good as people they would have gone into the city and been earning multi million pound bonuses. Politicians are the failures, the ones that are not good enough to make the grade in the real world. Car park yourself in a safe seat and make a career out slagging off the opposition and making sound bites for the six oclock news.

 

 

You should approve of Nigel Farage then. A sucessful city metals trader who made his money in the real world and left a lucrative career to take up a political fight. As far as I can see, the only main party leader who's ever had a job.

[955i]

Have to say I can see the flaws in some of UKIP's policies, but I reckon that unless we make a change, nothing will ever change so I guess they will get my vote as the only other alternatives are not acceptable to me any more.

[henry90]

Got my vote

[Gimlet]

I can't help but feel encouraged by a thread on UKIP that has run to 17 pages.

Its raining here so I've done some totting up: Its not very scientific, but from 83 or so contributors, 51 are in favour of UKIP and would vote for them, 13 are against and would not, and 19 did not express a preference one way or another. That's 62% of respondents pepared to vote UKIP.

Completely unscientific but it might suggest the way the wind is blowing.

[pegleg31]

Wonder if everyone who is saying UKIP has their vote will actually vote for them when it actually matters or revert back to labour/conservative?

[AVB]

You should approve of Nigel Farage then. A sucessful city metals trader who made his money in the real world and left a lucrative career to take up a political fight. As far as I can see, the only main party leader who's ever had a job.

 

Yes he used to work for Credit Lyonnais Rouse (which was the commodities and futures arm of the French bank Credit Lyonnais) in the 80's and early 90's as did I. Don't remember him though. Lot's of shady characters in that organisation. Not saying he was though. Perhaps that was were he developed a dislike for Europeans? It put me of the French (particulalry Parisians).

[Grandalf]

Wonder if everyone who is saying UKIP has their vote will actually vote for them when it actually matters or revert back to labour/conservative?

 

This has always been UKIP's problem. Far more supporters than votes. Take my area - rural north Suffolk. For most of the existence of UKIP there was no candidate in my area. Then when there was he stood no realistic chance of ever getting voted in due the massive and permanent Tory support in the area which has been blue since god only knows when. So I reckon a lot of people around here voted conservative when they really supported UKIP. (I know I did just to keep labour out if it was possible).

Sadly it will probably be the same next time around.

Edited March 16, 2013 by Grandalf

[Reece]

Wonder if everyone who is saying UKIP has their vote will actually vote for them when it actually matters or revert back to labour/conservative?

 

This was a problem with UKIP in the early days, but their support is growing, and votes for them at elections has as well, so I think that statement about UKIP supporters switching back to Labour or the Conservatives at election time is exaggerated a bit.

 

I know I'll be voting UKIP at the next election.

[Vince Green]

It doesn't matter what I vote here its a Conservative safe seat . Labour don't stand an earthly chance of ever getting it so I will be able to vote UKIP without any real risk.

[Doc Holliday]

I've been a supporter of UKIP for a few years, since before the last general election. They have a good set of common sense policies (ok, so there are also one or two which may raise an eyebrow but then which party doesn't?) and I would be glad to see them in government. The LibLabCon argument about a protest vote is such old hat now it's untrue. They are so worried about losing votes they've resulted to scare-mongering to try and keep those inclined to stray voting for them.

 

They are all for British-ness not race are bigotry like so many think and that's not a bad thing if you're proud to be British.

[kdubya]

 

 

They are all for British-ness not race are bigotry like so many think and that's not a bad thing if you're proud to be British.

 

would prefare ENGLISH but either way the term British or English and proud are now taboo thanks to the must not offend idiots that topple to the left.

 

KW

[Doc Holliday]

I know where you're coming from kdubya but as long as we govern the Scots and Welsh (even to a lesser extend) we're still a British nation. To be honest, I don't think I would be too bothered if the Scots and Welsh wanted to totally go their own way so long as they didn't expect any hand outs from the English. Same with Cornwall, effectively, as they've been whining for a few years now about being independant. Can't see that they would get very far though. They find it tough down there even with our help.

[Vince Green]

There was a very good artice in (I think) the Mirror today. I read it in the barbers so I am not sure which paper it was. The basic content was how badly Germany has been treated by the countries that have been baled out and those who still want more money. Reading what it said I am inclined to agree and I do feel sympathy for Germany who have behaved very honourably and shelled out an awful lot of money.

 

The underlying message I think though, never stated but often implied, was that this is never going to work. The "Cub Med" countries, Greece Spain and Italy are totally unrepentant and don't see they have done any wrong. Their papers and their politicians slag off Germany and deny the need for austerity.

 

So really, its not so much what we think in this country, do we stay or do we go. Is there actually a Europe left for us to leave or has it already died?

[kdubya]

they are only paying back a part of what they stole in between 39 and 45.

 

KW

[Reece]

Just saw this on the UKIP website. Farage will be touring the country to spread UKIP's message and hold public meetings.

 

The schedule may change at short notice.

 

http://www.ukip.org/content/latest-news/2997-nigel-farage-the-common-sense-tour

 

The closest one to me is Scarborough, and I won't be able to make it, which is a shame. Maybe another time.

[henry d]

Not venturing far out of the United Kingdom of England is he?

[12boreblue]

I am a UKIP voter, and my wife is Turkish! They do not have a rascist policy, that is conveniently used by the major three parties, as well as the old addage' the public are just voting UKIP as a protest vote'

 

My position is that the working and middle class have been made to pay for every cock up the banks and global traders have made. Christ that idiot Brown sold all our gold reserve in one sale, Traders got wind of all that Gold coming onto the market and the price plummeted, a week later it rose to over a £1000 per ounze.

 

Not one civeil servant, politician, banker or trader has lost his or her job since the recession over the failure to control trading etc, can you say that about any other sector?

 

If everyone in this country voted ukip in the next general election, it might not turn out to be the brilliant, but I would rather take a chance on a party with some backbone and guts to say what is really happening and do something about it, than have this load of millionaire, public schoolboy, all for 'me' ******.

 

Oh have you heard this one, the president of Cyprus wirhdrew all his savings the day before the new banking rules came in, there's word he might be prosecuted for it, just heard this so can't clarify it. How's that for looking after your voters.

[-Mongrel-]

Have to say I can see the flaws in some of UKIP's policies, but I reckon that unless we make a change, nothing will ever change so I guess they will get my vote as the only other alternatives are not acceptable to me any more.

And there in lies the truth for many of us. It's not that UKIP's policies stand out as particularly great, but they are different from the established ******** trotted out by the established self servers.

 

It may be a 'wasted' vote this time round, and labour may get back in as a result, but they won't be that much worse than the shambles we already have. However, another 4 years down the line, they could just get in once people realise just how much support that actually do have...would give Farage and co time to iron out the holes in their policies too!

Edited April 1, 2013 by -Mongrel-

[d17 len]

They get my vote! bring on the election!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[kdubya]

Not venturing far out of the United Kingdom of England is he?

Strange post? I thought the jocks wanted (as is their right) independence surely he cant be condemned for recognizing their wishes, or is your post just another tooth gritting anti anything 1 degree right of your absolute left..

 

KW