Vipa Posted March 11, 2013 Report Share Posted March 11, 2013 OK Seriously considering buying a BIG engined petrol Jeep Grand Cherokee with an LPG conversion... 4.7, 5.7 or even a 6.1ltr V8 For the money I have got to spend we will be looking at between 70-90k on the clock Does LPG have any adverse affects on an engine... will an engine with 80k on it be in worse shape due to the conversion than if it had been run on just petrol? Cheers Paul Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Potter Posted March 11, 2013 Report Share Posted March 11, 2013 OK Seriously considering buying a BIG engined petrol Jeep Grand Cherokee with an LPG conversion... 4.7, 5.7 or even a 6.1ltr V8 For the money I have got to spend we will be looking at between 70-90k on the clock Does LPG have any adverse affects on an engine... will an engine with 80k on it be in worse shape due to the conversion than if it had been run on just petrol? Cheers Paul Can I suggest you pm webber from this forum, I know he runs an LPG converted 4.6l Range Rover, is in the gas business and his son actual does the conversions. They may be a little too far away to do the business for you but I'm certain he will give freely and honestly of his advice. Mr Potter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shakari Posted March 11, 2013 Report Share Posted March 11, 2013 Most but not all engines run quieter, better & cleaner on LPG than they do on petrol and service intervals lengthen to almost twice that of one running on petrol. There are however good and bad conversions so you need to look out for that. As a rule of thumb, the Italians make the best kits. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted March 11, 2013 Report Share Posted March 11, 2013 If its long term converted then depending if it has a lubricant kit fitted you can expect valve seat issues, we used to going injectors failed soon after as do most engine sensors and egr valves etc. personally I won't buy another having had 8 factory converted vans and ended up running them all on petrol in the end. Fuel use wise bank on 15% at least more than petrol in your calculations and you will be down on power. The facts are its not taken off for a reason and with the price difference it would have done had manufacturers not had so many warranty issues with factory conversions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vipa Posted March 11, 2013 Author Report Share Posted March 11, 2013 Thanks chaps... I am specifically looking at vehicles that have already been converted... Another 3k on top of the purchase price would make them too expensive but thought I had seen somewhere that LPG burns cylinder heads out? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted March 11, 2013 Report Share Posted March 11, 2013 It's a very dry fuel, newer kits have an auto lube kit so check its there or when the vehicle was converted. Ours all hit problems after about 100k so if you buy one converted a while after new you might find its not been on gas long. The other thing to factor in is you will still use some petrol and longer journeys LPG stations seem to be getting fewer round here they aren't replacing pumps but that may be due to the congestion charge exemption being removed so everyone is going back to diesel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
webber Posted March 11, 2013 Report Share Posted March 11, 2013 Al4x makes a valid but somewhat dated points. Some years ago a number of motor manufacturers jumped on the LPG band wagon, the majority of them went with one manufacturer of equipment who offered some vehicle specific modifications to equipment that was past its sell by date when fitted, mean while the dealers charged brewsters for mediocre kit. There is no substitute for sound engineering. My Range Rover has done around 140,000 miles on LPG, its now got around 206,000 on the clock. It doesn't have a Flashlube or similar system fitted as the engine was designed and built properly. However, most modern engines are built to a price not a standard, correctly hardened valves and seats have gone by the wayside in many engines. Modern petrol contains additives to combat wear, LPG contains nothing, it is therefore advisable to have a lubrication system fitted and use a special additive this will replace the additives to some degree that are found in petrol. Its very difficult to advise on a pre converted vehicle, there is a mirriad of different kits on the market, some fit for purpose, some not; some correctly fitted, some not. Some converters claim to be able to convert a vehicle in one day. Dependent on the vehicle it takes my son 3 to 5 days, but its top quality kit correctly fitted. My best advise would be to buy a vehicle which has not been converted and have it done by a company that you can trust to fit good kit correctly. If you must buy a pre converted vehicle arrange to take the vehicle to a decent converter and ask them to inspect the gas conversion before you part with your brass. We make more money putting right the wrongs of others than we do fitting new conversions. We often smile when we quote for a job, but don't get it; then several months later the vehicle turns up; can you have a look, its never been right etc. You pays your money and makes your choice. webber Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon R Posted March 11, 2013 Report Share Posted March 11, 2013 There is no substitute for a professional opinion. :good: :good: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vipa Posted March 11, 2013 Author Report Share Posted March 11, 2013 Thanks webber... So ball park what are we talking to convert say a 5.7ltr v8? Thanks for the input too from the rest of you chaps Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HDAV Posted March 11, 2013 Report Share Posted March 11, 2013 Mate had a 4.7 grand Cherokee the rear diff has issues around 100k and electrics can be dodgy jeep dealer parts are silly money.... Awesome motor but at 13-17mpg it was killing him on Fuel.... Getting fault lights running on LPG are common and changes to MOT regs may mean they are more than a simple annoyance.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
four-wheel-drive Posted March 11, 2013 Report Share Posted March 11, 2013 I had a 4ltr Jeep Cherokee and when everything was going well it was good cheep fuel I would say look in to two things before buying one. First where can you get gas for it the nearest place to me was five miles from my house so unless I needed to go that way it was a ten mile round trip to fill up. The second thing is there a garage that fits/repairs LPG near to where you live as if you have any problems with it and it will not go it can be a real problem getting it fixed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malik Posted March 11, 2013 Report Share Posted March 11, 2013 i personally wouldnt mess about with LPG. had the land cruiser amazon done years ago. maybe its better now but thats a 4.5L petrol. on my LPG system, the engine starts on petrol until its fully warmed up, then it automatically changes over to LPG. can notice the difference between petrol and LPG most noticably the power.... going up hill in such a big car, it naturally looses speed, put your foot down a little more to compensate... no real power. Also, if you put your foot down it changes back to petrol as it is more powerful. its ok if you are going through town though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Geordie Posted March 12, 2013 Report Share Posted March 12, 2013 I had a1996 Mk3 Astra 1.4 8v bought it in 1998 with 60.000 on it and took it to a place called nottingham auto gas. Conversion carried out in a day and a tank of gas all for just over £300. That was all the kit inc the torrodial tank. Ran the car over 3 years to 140.000 with no issue other than the occasional flash back. Learned how to avoid it very quickly but no damage to the airbox. I sold the car and ended up buying it back near 2 year later. By then it needed the LPG kit.serviced and set up again. But ran like a dream again once done. No flash lube or sequential injectors etc. A plain mixer ring just above the throat of the carb. A friend of mine got his Felicia done on the Taxi's. Cost him over £1200 at a local gas place. Tartarini system. Flash backs every five minutes shattering his air box. After 5 month it wouldn't run properly so had to go back to be serviced etc. His car didn't even see 80.000 I have thought about having my Cavalier done but only going to keep it one more year so not worth it. May get a kit car and LPG that instead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
four-wheel-drive Posted March 12, 2013 Report Share Posted March 12, 2013 (edited) My 4ltr Jeep had a top of the range system and I had no complaints about power it did about 16mpg on gas and about 18mpg petrol but at about 70p per ltr it was cheep to run the main reason that I sold it was I took it to Green fuels in Bath and got riped of for £500 and there was not another place in my area to take it to for problems/service. They do say that the 4ltr Jeep straight 6 cylinder engine runs well on LPG also being a big engine it is never overworked as perhaps a 2ltr engine could be. Edited March 12, 2013 by four-wheel-drive Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted March 12, 2013 Report Share Posted March 12, 2013 Al4x makes a valid but somewhat dated points. Some years ago a number of motor manufacturers jumped on the LPG band wagon, the majority of them went with one manufacturer of equipment who offered some vehicle specific modifications to equipment that was past its sell by date when fitted, mean while the dealers charged brewsters for mediocre kit. There is no substitute for sound engineering. My Range Rover has done around 140,000 miles on LPG, its now got around 206,000 on the clock. It doesn't have a Flashlube or similar system fitted as the engine was designed and built properly. However, most modern engines are built to a price not a standard, correctly hardened valves and seats have gone by the wayside in many engines. Modern petrol contains additives to combat wear, LPG contains nothing, it is therefore advisable to have a lubrication system fitted and use a special additive this will replace the additives to some degree that are found in petrol. Its very difficult to advise on a pre converted vehicle, there is a mirriad of different kits on the market, some fit for purpose, some not; some correctly fitted, some not. Some converters claim to be able to convert a vehicle in one day. Dependent on the vehicle it takes my son 3 to 5 days, but its top quality kit correctly fitted. My best advise would be to buy a vehicle which has not been converted and have it done by a company that you can trust to fit good kit correctly. If you must buy a pre converted vehicle arrange to take the vehicle to a decent converter and ask them to inspect the gas conversion before you part with your brass. We make more money putting right the wrongs of others than we do fitting new conversions. We often smile when we quote for a job, but don't get it; then several months later the vehicle turns up; can you have a look, its never been right etc. You pays your money and makes your choice. webber Cracking post! The Rover V8 I'm having removed from my Landrover was run via a LPG kit.I was hoping to sell this on.Any method for finding out if gas has damaged it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NIGHT SEARCHER Posted March 12, 2013 Report Share Posted March 12, 2013 I had a Frontera 2.2 petrol for five years and never had any problems at all. But a shooting mate of mine had the same Frontera 2.2 and had Gas put on it. In four years it had three cylinder heads every one burnt around the valves £1200 a pop. £3600 on Cylinder heads is a joke. Some heads just can`t take the extra heat from running on gas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shakari Posted March 12, 2013 Report Share Posted March 12, 2013 It was a long time ago but I had 2 Rangies with LPG conversions on them & they were a pleasure to own & both were completely trouble free. I don't know but wonder if it works better on slow revving low compression engines. Perhaps Webber could advise us on that as he's in the business? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wildfowler12 Posted March 12, 2013 Report Share Posted March 12, 2013 (edited) Heres my experience of the stuff... I had a conversion done in Nov. My motor did 25.5mpg on petrol and now does 23.5mpg on LPG, that equates to about 46mpg on petrol (£for£). It saves me about £90 per month as I can get the gas for 69.9p. I'd recommend LPG systems, but ONLY if they've been installed by a UKLPG approved garage, and come with a good warranty. I've not had a problem yet, and should have made my money back within the year Great advice from Webber by the way! Edited March 12, 2013 by Wildfowler12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
subsonicnat Posted March 12, 2013 Report Share Posted March 12, 2013 Bloke I know had a brand new Dico converted from NEW, had his own tank in the garden, 6 months he sold it, imagine the trouble when you break down, its garage garage garage: you cannot do anything with it, its dangerous. Full stop: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
webber Posted March 12, 2013 Report Share Posted March 12, 2013 It was a long time ago but I had 2 Rangies with LPG conversions on them & they were a pleasure to own & both were completely trouble free. I don't know but wonder if it works better on slow revving low compression engines. Perhaps Webber could advise us on that as he's in the business? Not really; its simply down to the correct equipment being correctly fitted by a competent technician. We see loads of Rangies and Discos with problems. Mainly DIY jobs utilising inappropriate equipment. My lad is one of the best, but he can't wave his spanner and turn water into wine. There is the odd engine thats best not converted, but technology continues to advance and problems usually get solved. Its good to remember that the internal combustion engine as used in automobiles is a gas engine that was converted to run on petroleum spirit, we have Herr Benz to thank for inventing the carburetor, the rest is history in the making and continuous technological development. As an apprentice I worked on a number of natural gas engines that were used to run old fashioned massive resiprocating compressors and water pump, we scrapped them for more modern electric driven stuff. I made an LPG conversion for my bosses car when I was 18, its a long but interesting story, technology has marched on and a computer drives the autogas systems of today. webber Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HDAV Posted March 12, 2013 Report Share Posted March 12, 2013 A mate had a factory LPG Astra Ex Calor company car it was the 1.6l 16V put a lot of miles on it no issues with the gas system only minor one was finding a garage that could do the tank inspection. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vipa Posted March 13, 2013 Author Report Share Posted March 13, 2013 got to ask this as the wife has brought it up... What are the chances of me doing this and then 2 months later the LPG tax concessions being scrapped leaving me with a 15mpg beast? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted March 13, 2013 Report Share Posted March 13, 2013 slim, the thing most likely to leave you with a 15mpg beast is the system going tits up and costing a fortune to fix, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shakari Posted March 13, 2013 Report Share Posted March 13, 2013 (edited) Webber What's the best make of kit to fit to an AMC 360 5.9 litre V8 engine with an Edelbrock carb and can you give me an idea of the approximate price to supply and fit such a kit in the UK please? Come to that can it be fitted to a carb or is a fuel injection system necessary? Edited March 13, 2013 by shakari Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
subsonicnat Posted March 13, 2013 Report Share Posted March 13, 2013 (edited) The guy I was on about in my previous thread on this, he was going to become an agent, but it even cost him: £1000.+ And then got rid 6 months later, so they cannot be that good, sounds good on paper but total waste Of money I think, You cannot TINKER with it, it has to go back to someone who KNOWS what they are doing : Full Stop: Edited March 13, 2013 by subsonicnat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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