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I seem to see an alarming amount of posts regarding dog behaviour recommending beating or using electric collars on here :no:

 

As far as I am aware, your dog is supposed to be your companion, confidante and trusted friend, so why are so many people happy to use threats and violence to bend them to their will?

 

I haven't seen any issues reported that cannot be cured with time, patience, the right training methods and.....dare I say it paying for professional advice.

 

Instead, people seem happy to accept the methods of 'Ol Ted in 't' cloth cap' as a way forward.

 

I find this quite shocking and it makes me wonder how some treat their kids when they step out of line, I would hope they don't use the same ideology!

 

What are other peoples views on this

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Couldn't agree with you more u should never Evan shout at a dog/puppy it gets you no where I have a 9 month old lab that loves to work n fetch pigeons and game and Evan socks of the maiden sits stays heals on command and I never hit him once or any type of pain treats and talking nicely in the way to do it not wacking them in an inch of there life's

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a dog is a dog if you have to beat them or use electric collers you are doing something wrong , try again another day if you have a bad training session.

you have to earn the respect from your dog and make him or her realize you are not only the alpha male , but the dogs friend

If you mistreat it from day 1 you will lose respect forever :(

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now I'm no dog beater but I'd be interested to see how you guys would correct a stock chaser, you must have some very understanding farmers who'll allow rover plenty of time chasing his stock around :lol:

Like I say, this is not something that can't be cured, but people don't want to pay to get the right advice.

 

They seem to think that they get a dog and it will do just what they want, if it doesn't then whale the **** out of it or give it electric shocks and it will come good.

 

I suspect a lot of people on here should not own dogs, and judging by their posts should not be allowed certificates either!

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now I'm no dog beater but I'd be interested to see how you guys would correct a stock chaser, you must have some very understanding farmers who'll allow rover plenty of time chasing his stock around :lol:

In addition, my girl chased, anything up to cows and a year and a half later she is trained out of it, probably could have done it in a week if I'd abused her but Hey Ho :sad1:

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now I'm no dog beater but I'd be interested to see how you guys would correct a stock chaser, you must have some very understanding farmers who'll allow rover plenty of time chasing his stock around :lol:

Surely that's just basic training?! If the basics sit stay come are 100% then chasing stock, game, other dogs etc shouldn't happen.

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In addition, my girl chased, anything up to cows and a year and a half later she is trained out of it, probably could have done it in a week if I'd abused her but Hey Ho :sad1:

but how much stock did she chase in the year and a half it took to steady her?

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but how much stock did she chase in the year and a half it took to steady her?

None, she was never put in the situation until she was steady. She was always on lead and told what animals were until I was sure she got it.

 

Now she works for me and is 100% trusted :good:

Edited by 955i
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my Pup can be a lil sodpot at times and he does try your patience but i would never use a shock collar or give him a beating!! i have scruffed him and told him no!! a few times but thats when he has done something really bad like bitten the wife(again!!) or some thing else unacceptable

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my dog gets a two fingered slap across the muzzle to correct her, but this is rarely neccesary she's a house dog and very loving & compliant, I do however believe that the tone of your voice is a very useful way of communicating with a dog so i don't agree when people say a raised voice or a sharp tone is a bad thing.

 

there's more than one way to skin a cat who's to say their's is better or right, what we all must do is respect other opinions. I believe in cause & effect

 

 

Its also relevant which breed you have, 20 years ago I had 3 Doberman's as guard dogs these dogs developed a pack mentality & required a stern hand .... well if i'm honest a very stern hand at times to keep them in line, I was never bitten nor did the dogs loose any respect quite the opposite, I had to be top dog & i nature there's only one way that happens.

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but how much stock did she chase in the year and a half it took to steady her?

None,it was quelled by taking her near stock on a leash then re-inforcing the NO until she understood. She now doesn't care about stock, no interest. That took around 3 mths. Unexpected things like hares bolting and ducks etc taking off took the rest of the time

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I think this can be looked at both ways....

 

People who beat their dog all the time and expect it to be all singing and dancing are nuts.

 

ALSO

 

People who treat their dog as if it were human and expect it to be the perfect dog are also nuts !

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I think this can be looked at both ways....

 

People who beat their dog all the time and expect it to be all singing and dancing are nuts.

 

ALSO

 

People who treat their dog as if it were human and expect it to be the perfect dog are also nuts !

he said in far less words than I did

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I think this can be looked at both ways....

 

People who beat their dog all the time and expect it to be all singing and dancing are nuts.

 

ALSO

 

People who treat their dog as if it were human and expect it to be the perfect dog are also nuts !

 

there is middle ground and as far as I know 955 has something more suitable to sled work than field work so its fine to have a dog you can control where you let it off etc. I have a dog who wants to put an e collar on though she never does now the association is with work and walks, it got us both through a rebellious stage where she thought she knew best and the alternative was staying on the lead or getting a good thumping after the event. Believe me when I say shouting good girl and holding some doggy treats out would have made no difference to stopping her on hares and rabbits, having had her stop on the white line of an A road once that was the collar on. Now it never went above level 2 which on my leg is very mild but you can beep it first and I think it took twice to teach her that. We had done plenty of whistle work before and she was spot on in enclosed spaces and on a long lead but she knew when she wasn't on it.

They sort the problem while the dog is in the act, you haven't got to catch them to reprimand after the event so some things you can sort easily, the alternative was walks on the lead and not coming shooting, this then meant the problem was pretty much sorted by the time she came beating and shooting and bearing in mind I beat on estates with lots of hares and deer the potential for issues is very high, and she is now spot on and touch wood has never run in.

Thumping isn't something I've had to resort to but I know I have seen a lot of very good trainers and triallers have to resort to it with pig headed dogs and the issue you have is if you do it once properly you may well not need to do it again but if you want to work a dog off the lead it can't know best because the risks for the dog as much as anything else. Obviously you hope you never have to resort to it but with working dogs they do have to be up to a certain standard as you are working with their instincts and also very much against them at times. The ultimate thing is pets you can treat with kiddy gloves and accept it will take months and years to get to being able to let them off but workers you can't.

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I'm no expert but I have never hit any of my dogs I've owned, its all about BASIC TRAINING! My current dog was a rescue collie that I had from a bloke who used to keep her in a cage and clout her about as he basically had no idea and obviously she was bouncing all over the show! I had her from about 18 month old after she was taken off him it took over a year to get the fear of people out of her, but during all that time she was taught the BASICS, sit stay, walk to heal etc ( verbal, hand and whistle) and it took a lot of patience but not once have I had to touch her, she is now 13 and one of the best behaved and well mannered dogs you could have, been brought up with two small kids and loves them, she was introduced to livestock during my training with her and will happily wander with me through any of them with no problems at all, very seldom she is on a lead as she watches me for commands etc, unfortunately not much use as a gun dog as she can't handle close up loud noises anymore mainly due to her age but has been out beating & flushing with me in the past, and being trained to the whistle has its advantages BUT I didn't train her for any particular job in life just BASIC TRAINING for both our benefits, there is no excuse for having a bad behaved dog or needing to beat the **** out of them which will possibly result in reverse psychology if you ask me! ..... Sorry for the rant but really hate seeing people hit a dog for doing something wrong, absolutely no need, if my old girl has done something wrong or even thinking about it all it takes is a raised voice and a look ......enough said!

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beat a hard dog and you make it harder, beat a soft dog and ruin it for ever.I have lost count of the times I have see the same dogs getting the same beating on the same shoots fot the same misbehaviour. Train for obediance you cant beat it into a dog.

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Like people every dog has to be dealt with differently. I have a Lab dog and Springer bitch and both require completely different approaches to discipline and they are both fantastic dogs.

 

There are some people you can talk to and they will respect you there are others that need a right hook and they'll respect you and still there are those that'll never respect you regardless of how many different approaches you take.

 

If any of my dogs caused a person, livestock or property harm or damage as a result of me not wanting to act with a reasonable measure according to the behaviour I would be disappointed with myself. I don't see why others should have to pay for my incompetance or negligence to train effectively.

 

When my springer was 16 weeks old a mongrel chased my springer,under a park bench. I called to the bloke to call his dog back, he did, it didn't listen, I tried to take hold of the mogrel and put myself between it and my puppy whilst telling it to get out! It didn't listen. In the time it took this bloke to get over I had crawled under the bench and picked my puppy up. His chuffin dog was then jumping about at me causing my puppy more stress. All the while he is calling what appeared to be a deaf dog. I thought stuff this and grabbed his dog by the ear swung it round a bit and yelled at it to go away. After I dropped it the mongrel regained it's hearing and returned to its owners call. Now the owner wasn't very happy, but neither was I.

 

Now regardless of what some mamby pamby people might want to suggest about getting out the dog buscuits and talking through the situation with the Mongrel I did what was right for the situation. Hopefully his dog won't bother anyone else. Also I have never seen dogs sit down and discuss who should have the bone first. If there is confusion between them it is always sorted out with an agressive growling tone first (1st warning), followed by an physical action to make the point (maybe a shove) and thirdley if required a good bite to let the lesser dog know that it should listen to the stronger character. The Alpha. Dogs don't speak our language they understand by consistant behaviour that demonstrates strength in your leadership and character. Sometimes and rarely that requires physical admonishment of a kind.

 

Lee

Edited by lee-kinsman
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As Lee says, all dogs are different and until you've had plenty through your hands with a range of issue and successfully resolved them (I don't profess to have by comparison to many others) then you're not particularly well placed to decry ANY training method.

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The lab I have now - probably my 30th - is ultra sensative to a harsh tone in my voice. She will happily sit in my office - until I swear at the computer - then she's off to her bed like a banshee.

They are all different.

God knows what Merlyn would do if I ever thumped her.

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