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How do you view your dog?


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Can I ask what work the dog does for you?

I am an ecologist, she is currently trained to find badger setts (means I don't have to go in the nasty bramble patches :lol: ), water vole and otter.

 

We are working towards bats but this will take a while due to the variety of species out there, although someone else is doing this currently but only to a single species.

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I am an ecologist, she is currently trained to find badger setts (means I don't have to go in the nasty bramble patches :lol: ), water vole and otter.

 

We are working towards bats but this will take a while due to the variety of species out there, although someone else is doing this currently but only to a single species.

 

 

Sounds interesting and I imagine that you're doing this quite slowly and controlled for you to use eye signals or is she running round like a mad spaniel?. People are scared of things they don't understand, my father always told me if I wanted to learn I had to ask questions.

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Sounds interesting and I imagine that you're doing this quite slowly and controlled for you to use eye signals or is she running round like a mad spaniel?. People are scared of things they don't understand, my father always told me if I wanted to learn I had to ask questions.

Yes, it isn't a quick process and can sometimes be trying. They are very steady dogs by nature (part of the reason I chose the breed) and it is very rewarding to watch her work. Also has the WOW factor with clients if they are around and makes us stick in their mind which is good for repeat work.

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That's what I thought. If you're using a spaniel you're asking a dog to listen to you when all it wants to do is get it's head down and hunt which can be trying when they're whizzing round at 100 mph . Sometimes a quick 'check' is needed to let them know you're in charge, I'm not for beating a dog senseless but I am firm if the dog will take it, not all will. I've a lab who will lie on her back and scream for the RSPCA if I raise my voice at her so she needs handling softly, on the other hand one of the pups I'm bringing on is hard as nails and I've never heard her wimper so instead of being firm with her I'll put her straight away when she starts taking the mess.

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That's what I thought. If you're using a spaniel you're asking a dog to listen to you when all it wants to do is get it's head down and hunt which can be trying when they're whizzing round at 100 mph . Sometimes a quick 'check' is needed to let them know you're in charge, I'm not for beating a dog senseless but I am firm if the dog will take it, not all will. I've a lab who will lie on her back and scream for the RSPCA if I raise my voice at her so she needs handling softly, on the other hand one of the pups I'm bringing on is hard as nails and I've never heard her wimper so instead of being firm with her I'll put her straight away when she starts taking the mess.

All dogs respond differently.

 

Just seems some can't get the idea that dogs can be trained for something other than flushing and picking up :/

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I wasn't having a go for picking something different but why make things difficult for yourself by choosing a breed without any working instincts when you are using it for a job ?

 

As for using it to find badger setts ? ?

 

They are not that hard to find that you need a dog surely.

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I wasn't having a go for picking something different but why make things difficult for yourself by choosing a breed without any working instincts when you are using it for a job ?

 

As for using it to find badger setts ? ?

 

They are not that hard to find that you need a dog surely.

If they are in dense undergrowth it is easier to send her in than try and get in myself.

 

Not made things difficult, have chosen a suitable and trainable breed as you would find if you went any further than your first google hit!

 

What other breed would you suggest for what we do?

Edited by 955i
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All dogs respond differently.

 

Just seems some can't get the idea that dogs can be trained for something other than flushing and picking up :/

I think it came about from you having a go at last resort training used on Gundogs, something it appears you have no idea about

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If they are in dense undergrowth it is easier to send her in than try and get in myself.

 

Not made things difficult, have chosen a suitable and trainable breed as you would find if you went any further than your first google hit!

 

What other breed would you suggest for what we do?

 

I'm just wondering how a dog can confirm something that you can't see. Does it give you a signal in it's body language for the different type of species that it has found in the dense cover.

 

ATB,

Lee

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I'm just wondering how a dog can confirm something that you can't see. Does it give you a signal in it's body language for the different type of species that it has found in the dense cover.

 

ATB,

Lee

 

maybe it retrieves them :whistling:

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If they are in dense undergrowth it is easier to send her in than try and get in myself.

 

Not made things difficult, have chosen a suitable and trainable breed as you would find if you went any further than your first google hit!

 

What other breed would you suggest for what we do?

 

All dogs are trainable to some degree but if it took you a year and a half to get it to stop chasing sheep i would suggest it is not easy to train that particular breed or your training methods are wrong.

 

As for what other breed..if i was looking for a dog for your line of work i would look at what kind of dog other agencies use when they need to find something with the use of a dog, like police,customs etc etc and you would find a load of labs ,springers, cockers etc. They use them because they are best suited to the job.

 

That is what i meant when i said why make things harder.

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I'm just wondering how a dog can confirm something that you can't see. Does it give you a signal in it's body language for the different type of species that it has found in the dense cover.

 

ATB,

Lee

 

 

It could mark a find similar to a HPR breed and then he goes in to investigate, I'd certainly be interested to see how his dog works.

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I'm just wondering how a dog can confirm something that you can't see. Does it give you a signal in it's body language for the different type of species that it has found in the dense cover.

 

ATB,

Lee

It comes out of the dense cover,then points to its eye with its tail. Edited by chrispti
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It could mark a find similar to a HPR breed and then he goes in to investigate, I'd certainly be interested to see how his dog works.

 

Are you having a giggle?

 

I would genuinly like to know how it confirms the presence of a species without him having to enter dense cover.

Edited by lee-kinsman
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No mate not having a giggle. Just because someone trains there dog differently doesn't mean it's wrong. I'm guessing here because I don't train them but I'll go out on a limb and say search and rescue and drug/money dogs are trained completely differently to gun dogs.

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I'm also quite intrigued by how u work it. I'm guessing train more like a scent hound and follows the badger runs back to sett's rather than a hunting (spamiel/hpr) type method. Also interrested how it indicates a badger sett (althou thinking about it a exp working terrier or lurcher soon marks an active rabbit/fox hole, not really that different). Do u generally work it on a long line?

 

I think i'd be with most on here thinking u'd off been better of with a gundog type breed as it's wot we are more familar with and know how easy they are to train esp lab's as shown by the many other jobs they are trainer for, but i forget that some of the security/guard dogs are also quite capable trackers when trained so must have a decent nose on them.

Does it u need a lot of scenting ability? I would imagine realatively easy the ammount of use and with belly being so low to ground should give off a fairly strong scent trail.

 

As for the different training methods, while i would say it is entirely possible to train a decent gundog by using purely positive methods, i would also say it would be impossible to train a lot off gundogs off varying breeds with out some form of physical/negative reinforcement althou battering them will do no good (althou i'm sure we all know some people who do and still very competative with their dogs)

I'm fortunate enough to know/shoot and work dogs along side some very good pro/amatuer trainers and been to a few training days with different trainers, 2 of the sounds bites which are sort of relevant here

 

1 say's u will never train a gundog with kindness alone,

Another 1 who is more of a behavourist type say's if u have to get physical "train it like a dog not a monkey" meanig dogs don't strike/hit each other (monkeys do) so a dog won't know how to react whereas if u growl, eye contact, scruff, shake, slight pull of ear are all things a more dominat dog will do to a less dominat, and will quickly teach a dog a lesson but very quickly the dog is back to normal

 

995 u said a while back that training a dog is training a dog no matter wot ur training it for, which is 100% right in theory, the problem with gundogs is ur trying to encourage all the natural hunting instinct to it's full but still control it and then put it in a situation where it has so many chances to misbehave, esp so with the extra excitemnt on a shoot day atmosphere, a really good dog with a bit a drive is not going to stop a chase for a click/treat, if that becomes self rewarding ur in trouble

 

Another trainer tells a good story on a group training day some non gundog folk came (more showy/agility dogs) said some quite decent trained dogs there, 1 in paticular was a cracker (sure it was a spaniel) and the owner was showiing off with the clicker training and taught dog a simple dance type thing very quickly, trainer was well impressed, so gave it a shot in the rabbit pen in afternoon it took 3 off them to catch it, all the clicking and treats in the world would not stop it, when that narural instinct took over

 

End of day it depends massively on the individual dog and possibly the breed but wot is right for 1 dog may not be right for another, up to u to adapt to that dog or get rid and get a dog that suit's u better

 

Ps i know a boy who traind drug/explosive dogs in some aspects similar training to gundog althou will depend how u train ur gundogs (he had some cracking gundogs too), obvouisly very positive reward based rather than 'breaking' they tend to use a retrieve as it's reward ie tennis ball, then start hiding tennis ball with drugs/explosives inside same as u would hide a retrieve in cover and praise dog when it finds it and gets to retrive it's reward tennis ball. Scent work is slightly easier as it's the control/steadiness that tends to be the hardest thing (in my opinion) which a sniffing type dog doesn't need to same extent as a gundog

Edited by scotslad
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No mate not having a giggle. Just because someone trains there dog differently doesn't mean it's wrong. I'm guessing here because I don't train them but I'll go out on a limb and say search and rescue and drug/money dogs are trained completely differently to gun dogs.

 

Yes I get that, but to know what is in the dense cover without the handler actually having to go in and investigate is what he claims.

If the dog does that, then that's some dog.

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Yes I get that, but to know what is in the dense cover without the handler actually having to go in and investigate is what he claims.

If the dog does that, then that's some dog.

She knows the scents and the names of what she is looking for, if she finds anything she comes to me and then goes back, if nothing there she doesn't bother entering.

 

Habitats play a large part, if I'm sending her looking for otter I'm not going to do it in brambles in an arable field, so its not hard to guess what she has found if there is anything there.

 

That flags up the potential and the report recommends full survey for that species.

 

The methods aren't rocket science, she is used as an indicator, not final proof as these are initial walkover surveys, not species specific.

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