Mr Majyk Posted May 13, 2013 Report Share Posted May 13, 2013 right, can anyone give me a solid answer to this question? if you have a barrel shortened and screw cut does it become illegal until its sent to a proof house? ive had an ask around and the most common thing ive heard apart from "i dont know" is that the gun only NEEDS to be reproofed if its going to be sold? and ive heard this from shooters who know there stuff and i have a lot of respect for but i just wanted to throw this out to a wider audience, is this true, i.e. if i were to shorten and screw cut my .22 would i HAVE to have it reproofed or does it only need to be reproofed if i wanted to sell it? and what about if a barrel is only screw cut i.e. the length is not adjusted in any way, its only screw cut for a mod? HELP ME!!! lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted May 13, 2013 Report Share Posted May 13, 2013 Have a look here http://jacksonrifles.com/zz-silencers/files/proof-counsels-opinion.pdf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B B Posted May 13, 2013 Report Share Posted May 13, 2013 You can screw cut it yourself and use it yourself, but if you sell it or give it away it needs proofing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaun4860 Posted May 13, 2013 Report Share Posted May 13, 2013 (edited) You can screw cut it yourself and use it yourself, but if you sell it or give it away it needs proofing. And we have a winner, I had one cut at a gunsmiths, asked if I was going to be selling it? I said no, reply was that it didnt need proofing, however when I did come to sell it, it would have to be done by law Now people might say otherwise, but when I did sell it, no RFD would accept it without proof marks ( actual experience) so I got it done to sell Edited May 13, 2013 by shaun4860 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beardo Posted May 13, 2013 Report Share Posted May 13, 2013 nobody i know will screw cut without a reproof anymore - was chatting with a gunsmith the other day, and they are getting leaned on heavily by the police apparently Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonathanL Posted May 13, 2013 Report Share Posted May 13, 2013 I'm in the same camp as the barrister who wrote the opinion for Jackson Rifles. Namely; that if what you are doing to the barrel "significanly undermines it in substance or strength" (I forgot the precise wording he used but it's direct from the Proof Act, then it must be sent for proof before it can be sold or offered for sale, or exported. Otherwise, it not need to be sent to proof. The general opinion is that screwcutting a modern rifle barrel is extremely unlikely to "significantly undermine it in substance or strength", hence, it won't need proofing. J. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colin lad Posted May 13, 2013 Report Share Posted May 13, 2013 not sure where heard it but if you are giving it as a gift ie for free i don't think it needs proofing only if your selling it on or trading in i could be wrong though colin nobody i know will screw cut without a reproof anymore - was chatting with a gunsmith the other day, and they are getting leaned on heavily by the police apparently uk gun works in kettering done my .222 without proof colin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
njc110381 Posted May 13, 2013 Report Share Posted May 13, 2013 It's getting hard to find a smith who will do it, but they do exist. My understanding is that the gun must then stay with you until proofed. I'm sure the word "transferred" appears in the wording of the law, meaning that even giving it away or perhaps even loaning it creates an issue? Having said that I've had a lot of guns without proof marks for the screwcut. Some bought from new and some used. How would you ever know if it was a factory cut or after market job? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted May 13, 2013 Report Share Posted May 13, 2013 There are a couple in Cumbria who will screw-cut without re-proof. If a firearm is out of proof it only needs to be re-proofed if selling.No re-proof needed to gift or give away. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cumbrian Posted May 13, 2013 Report Share Posted May 13, 2013 It's getting hard to find a smith who will do it, but they do exist. My understanding is that the gun must then stay with you until proofed. I'm sure the word "transferred" appears in the wording of the law, meaning that even giving it away or perhaps even loaning it creates an issue? Having said that I've had a lot of guns without proof marks for the screwcut. Some bought from new and some used. How would you ever know if it was a factory cut or after market job? Entirely agree with the second paragraph here. I have two CZ rimfires that are screw cut and lack proof marks at the muzzle because, of course, they were done at the factory. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaun4860 Posted May 13, 2013 Report Share Posted May 13, 2013 (edited) It's getting hard to find a smith who will do it, but they do exist. My understanding is that the gun must then stay with you until proofed. I'm sure the word "transferred" appears in the wording of the law, meaning that even giving it away or perhaps even loaning it creates an issue? Having said that I've had a lot of guns without proof marks for the screwcut. Some bought from new and some used. How would you ever know if it was a factory cut or after market job? Mine was a Sako Quad, they only came in a 22" barrel and I had it chopped to 14" so straight away any RFD worth his salt would have known Strange thing was....it NEVER had any proof marks on it to start with, but when I got it back it was covered....lol Edited May 13, 2013 by shaun4860 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackbart Posted May 13, 2013 Report Share Posted May 13, 2013 My hmr was bought new and came screw cut but has no marks on the barrel muzzle. So are cz breaking the law ? My winchester cf was also bought new but was screw cut at the dealers, it was not shortened just screw cut and mod fitted. again no marks. So if i sold both of these guns 1 would be ok and the other would be illegal to sell or would both be illegal to sell without coughing up a hundred quid or so to get someone to stamp the barrel ? Are the proof house like a protection racket where you have to pay dues ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaun4860 Posted May 13, 2013 Report Share Posted May 13, 2013 My CZ did have proof marks, So maybe they just test a few out of every batch and stamp them Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HDAV Posted May 13, 2013 Report Share Posted May 13, 2013 My CZ did have proof marks, So maybe they just test a few out of every batch and stamp them Thats type approval not proofing, proofing is testing of every unit not just a sample............... No CIP proof mark not legal sell http://www.europarl.europa.eu/hearings/20061004/imco/genco_en.pdf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mr smith Posted May 13, 2013 Report Share Posted May 13, 2013 If the CZ HMR screwcut from new i.e. factory the proof marks near the chamber end would cover it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackbart Posted May 13, 2013 Report Share Posted May 13, 2013 At a guess i would say that most CF rifles DO NOT come from the factory screw cut so there must be an awful lot of illegal sales going on in the second hand market then ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cumbrian Posted May 13, 2013 Report Share Posted May 13, 2013 If the CZ HMR screwcut from new i.e. factory the proof marks near the chamber end would cover it. Exactly so Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rec-baller Posted May 13, 2013 Report Share Posted May 13, 2013 I went to part ex my Remmy 700 22.250 at a local r.f.d , when he asked had i had it chopped down to 22" i said "yes" and i,ve also paid for it to be re-proofed and stamped, his reply was that he was,nt bothered !! i said he could,nt legally sell it to some one else unless it was proofed, but he was,nt bothered, he said if nobody ask,s i,ll just sell it to them--- at that point i put my rifle back in the case and walked out, never to return to the shop again !!! shaun Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bry-M Posted May 14, 2013 Report Share Posted May 14, 2013 Rec-baller check your pm's! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matone Posted May 14, 2013 Report Share Posted May 14, 2013 This whole issue is nothing more than a wheeze dreamt up by the proof houses to keep themselves in work/business. They had lost too much work due to loss of pistols,s/a rifles and the lack of domestic product,they were running out of work basically. Its one big scam,but they`ve engineered it legally. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wymberley Posted May 14, 2013 Report Share Posted May 14, 2013 We could really do with getting this sorted one way or the other but that won't happen. One word of caution, though, not only is it illegal to sell an unproved gun, it is also illegal to offer it for sale. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SPARKIE Posted May 14, 2013 Report Share Posted May 14, 2013 do they need to proof mark rimfire due to lower pressures or is it just centre fire rifles? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted May 14, 2013 Report Share Posted May 14, 2013 post 2 shows a barristers opinion on the matter and that largely it is unenforceable, simply because of how the law is worded and the issue of whether the gun was initially submitted to proof screwcut or not and which owner had it screwcut etc. It can go round in circles but the issues are does screwcutting weaken the barrel and most would suggest it doesn't, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dekers Posted May 14, 2013 Report Share Posted May 14, 2013 (edited) This debate crops up on a fairly regular basis, and despite the wording of the OP there is NO solid answer! About 5 years back I bought a .22WMR from a RFD that had obviously been shortened and then threaded, it had NO Proof. About 3 years back I sold the same gun to a different RFD, it still had NO proof. So that throws out the window all the ... it must have proof if you want to sell it ..... comments. Whilst many RFD may have concerns about the law many insist on proof simpy to comply with their own insurers instructions, nothing to do with any possible legal implications! There are elements of confusion and debate here, but a RFD can do what he likes by way of insisting on a proof or not, that does not make it law, it is simply what he wants to do and the way he wants to trade! Edited May 14, 2013 by Dekers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dekers Posted May 14, 2013 Report Share Posted May 14, 2013 Interestingly, some providers of liability insurance to RFD's insist on proofing, others dont. Assuming is alway dangerous, but one has to assume those that don't, do not consider proof a legal requirement! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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