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Whilst it's a tool for a Trial dog to stop it pegging I don't think it really has much of a place on a real shoot. I'm yet to see a keeper complain about pegging in the beating line & I suspect the majority of stuff caught has some sort of problem anyway, clipped game from previous drives. I've also seen it cause a problem whilst picking up, I saw a Trial trained dog attempt to push out a wounded grouse. It was one of them one chance or it's gone picks but the Trial trained dog didn't grab it & the bird was gone, one leg down.

 

I can't comment on grouse shoots (theres not many in Kent!) but on all the shoots I pick up on and have been beating on over the years pegging is a no, no.

Although it has, and always will happen on occasions, it would certainly get a "mention" by the keeper.

I can appreciate that on a grouse moor there won't be the same number of birds nearer the beating line than on pheasant shoots so maybe thats why it's tolerated but if the beaters down here have pushed a large number of birds say towards a sewelling line the last thing the keeper wants is a dog running in and pegging them. Much the same with birds up against fences.

Maybe its just the difference between Grouse & Pheasant shoots?

 

DaveL

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It depends on what sort of shooting you're doing James. I taught my old lab to do it and used it on lots of occasions. On our walk one stand one shoot, we don't have pickers up, and the guns with dogs send the dogs for the birds as the fally pretty much. Lots of times my lab would be coming back with a dead bird, but the gun next to me had a runner down, if they don't have a dog it's very useful to be able to get him to stop retrieving the dead one and send immediately for the runner. I've used it doing walked up stuff too when the dog has put a bird up on the return with a dead bird, which has been shot and runs.

 

It's not a necessity, but if you can train it, it's useful to have in your back pocket should the need arise.

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I can't comment on grouse shoots (theres not many in Kent!) but on all the shoots I pick up on and have been beating on over the years pegging is a no, no.

Although it has, and always will happen on occasions, it would certainly get a "mention" by the keeper.

I can appreciate that on a grouse moor there won't be the same number of birds nearer the beating line than on pheasant shoots so maybe thats why it's tolerated but if the beaters down here have pushed a large number of birds say towards a sewelling line the last thing the keeper wants is a dog running in and pegging them. Much the same with birds up against fences.

Maybe its just the difference between Grouse & Pheasant shoots?

 

DaveL

No, I'm talking generally about pheasant shoots, pegging usually isn't particularly an issue on the grouse, a spot of rabbiting is but that's a whole different story. I'm also not talking about near the end of drives when all the beating dogs are at heel. I only work my dogs on commercial shoots & I very much think that any pegging is ignored as it makes up the numbers for those birds shot but lost. I'd certainly never want anything of mine putting a bird down mid retrieve dead or alive. I'd also never release anything that any of my dogs brought back, as I wrote before, there's usually a good reason the dog caught it in the first place.

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I do agree that pegging a wounded bird whilst a covert is being driven through by the beaters is acceptable and happens, pegging is more often associated with the capture of un-wounded birds.

I also pick up on fairly large commercial shoots and taking a hypothetical situation -

The beaters bring in the first drive of the day and possibly two/three or even more birds are pegged. At the end of the drive and the beaters appear with these birds in front of the guns, what expanation is given to the guns by the keeper of how the birds arrived in the bag, and more to the point, who is paying for them?

 

DaveL

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I do agree that pegging a wounded bird whilst a covert is being driven through by the beaters is acceptable and happens, pegging is more often associated with the capture of un-wounded birds.

I also pick up on fairly large commercial shoots and taking a hypothetical situation -

The beaters bring in the first drive of the day and possibly two/three or even more birds are pegged. At the end of the drive and the beaters appear with these birds in front of the guns, what expanation is given to the guns by the keeper of how the birds arrived in the bag, and more to the point, who is paying for them?

 

DaveL

 

How do you know the bird brought back isn't wounded? Chucking them in the air to see if they fly is a ####ing I've seen happen. I do know fit birds do get pegged, with experience you do get to have a feel when your dog has one but in the main a lot of the birds caught are none flyers. Then there's the wont flyers....some get very wise. Whilst I can understand your first drive story it's not something I've seen or heard happen with beaters. It's a scenario that would be difficult to arise where I go due to the terrain.

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Just because it's the first drive doesn't mean the bird can't be injured, yes not by that team of guns but possibly an earlier shoot, as the season goes on it would not be unusual to for my dogs to peg birds on a first drive depending which drive it is. I always kill any bird my dog brings back but i always examine them really carefully now and it amazes me how many have an injury/pellet somewhere. Even first day throu commercial duck ponds is a total nightmare ducks landing on pond as ur still flushing some, just mayhem some days is embarassing how many i walk out with but they almost all have been shot, experienced dog's must smell the gunpowder on shot game

 

DJL i would not describe that as peging, more ur worst nightmare i'd call that runniing in and that's the sort off thing that u dont get asked back for, by time near flushing point dogs willl just be sitting by my side

 

Picking up dogs can be just as bad putting them into woods early on only looking for a couple off birds and coming away with far too many, but it is the same people who's dogs are always bad for it. Who pays for all those birds?

 

I'm with perece here fair play if u can train it, but i really see no need wotso ever and like i said all the years i've shot never once wished my dogs would do it. Unless ur a decent trainer far too many chances off causing confusion with the dog and also i don't want my dogs to hesitate i want them right in on it straight away. Seen similar things on the moors if thats a paying day has cost owner 75 quid straigt away

 

At the springer champs this year 1 springer got a COM for nudging a pricked bird 4 times without pegging it and it had to be shot on the ground running, if that was on a working dog on a shoot i'd say ur dog was useless, wot good is that to a keeper, but that's the difference between trialing and working dogs,

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