Beaters Pay and HMRC

[ColinF]

So any shoot with a full time employed keeper will give you paper work

Yes, they should do. If you're worried about it, ask the shoot what paper work they will be providing to beaters.

[Cockerman59]

I asked 2 of the shoots last night, no paper work will be provided,i am supposed to keep a record, and then submit a tax return at year end

[paddywack12]

Last night received this years shoot dates from the keeper (part time) when I asked him about tax and NI numbers etc he said don't worry about it , it will be all cash as usual.

[CharlieT]

Last night received this years shoot dates from the keeper (part time) when I asked him about tax and NI numbers etc he said don't worry about it , it will be all cash as usual.

 

As Colin has pointed out previously, if RTI does not apply to your shoot then all that is required, as far as you are concerned, is for you to declare your beating earnings on your tax return.

[chesterse]

What are the tax people going to think/do when they suddenly get possibly thousands of people suddenly taking up beating! Would not be surprised if a lot of questions are asked!

[scotslad]

I've been on 3 different moors this year and nothing has changed! And from wot i've heard most of the pheasant shoots are carrying on as normal with no change

 

Right enough they are not commercial moors and mainly family days, and to be fair if u can afford to run a moor for ur family u won't miss the beaters pay coming out ur pocket

 

Cockerman if u're running 3 dogs and say ur making £1000 per season i would doubt there will be an awful lot of profit in that by the time u buy feed vet and house them as well as training equip and traavel costs so u should end up gettin a rebate

[paddywack12]

 

As Colin has pointed out previously, if RTI does not apply to your shoot then all that is required, as far as you are concerned, is for you to declare your beating earnings on your tax return.

Yeah righto will do

[norfolk dumpling]

You are correct but it is not just shoots - it's all casual labour as a mate of mine discovered when his car parking "employer" asked him for address, NI and dob for the first time but forgot to tell him his 'pay rise' was the tax element he would have to declare!!!

 

I foresee meltdown at HMRC.

 

I've now had two commercial shoots notify me of t's and c's and they are very different! Beware.

[goldypurple]

one of the shoots i go on is paying the tax, the others im going to have to declare, think im booked up for 30 days so far

[norfolk dumpling]

I've got 39 days across 3 shoots so far with 2 of my regular keepers still to contact me. One large commercial shoot is paying gross and has asked for full details for HMRC, the second, a large estate employing 2 ft keepers has asked for no info and seems to know nothing about HMRC RTI (!!) and the third, a large farm shoot selling days also seems to be completely unaware of new rules! Watch this space.

[chesterse]

One commercial shoot I used to go on is paying the same as last year £25 but asking for Ni number and full details. Another commercial shoot I'm due to go to next Tues - the keeper has still not heard from the boss about what's happening.

A third small farm shoot is carrying on as usual!

[leeds chimp]

Check if they are paying you net or gross of tax....

 

Chatting to a keeper today that I was helping out and some don't realise it's actually a raise for some

[norfolk dumpling]

I'm aware of one shoot where estate office controls funds and for any tax payer we will get a reduction. Keeper is struggling to get beaters for first 2 partridge days.

 

We must not overlook value of perks - this keeper does look after you with at least 2 good cock days. What is the cost of a 200 bird day on a top estate - several thousand £s.

[Dunkield]

What is the cost of a 200 bird day on a top estate

 

£8,400 round my way - so giving you a pay reduction is just taking the ......

The estate should take the hit, the extra fiver amounts to about 1/8th of one partridge

[CharlieT]

And remember that "perks" are taxable.

 

I hope HMRC don't demand their slice of the £16,800.00 you get as a benefit in kind.

[norfolk dumpling]

How do you measure perks of this kind - cock days are also part of shoot management when wild birds are important to the keeper. Roost shooting even more difficult to value. NHS should subsidise shoot - how much healthier are we after 3/4 days walking up to 10 miles a day???

 

We are probably unique in that there are several subtle facets to shooting beyond normal pay and rations or is that rather too deep?

[leeds chimp]

And how do you value a brace of birds then?

[Penelope]

What the game dealer would pay I assume.

 

And how do you value a brace of birds then?

[norfolk dumpling]

60p partridges and £1 pheasants so day worth about £200 max divided by 20? Is *****r all. Pigeons 10p so no issues.

[ColinF]

And remember that "perks" are taxable.

 

I hope HMRC don't demand their slice of the £16,800.00 you get as a benefit in kind.

 

The taxable benefit charge for a beaters day is the marginal cost to the employer of providing the day. I think that most shoots could argue that there is no additional cost incurred in hosting beaters day(s), so there will be no taxable benefit for the employees.

 

There is also a separate rule for annual parties/events, which basically means that as long as the cost to the employer is less than £150 per head there is no taxable charge on the employee. So taking if the shoot takes the beaters to the pub after for a meal and few beers, that should also be tax free.

[CharlieT]

 

The taxable benefit charge for a beaters day is the marginal cost to the employer of providing the day. I think that most shoots could argue that there is no additional cost incurred in hosting beaters day(s), so there will be no taxable benefit for the employees.

 

There is also a separate rule for annual parties/events, which basically means that as long as the cost to the employer is less than £150 per head there is no taxable charge on the employee. So taking if the shoot takes the beaters to the pub after for a meal and few beers, that should also be tax free.

 

Of course HMRC could rightly argue that, in this instance, had the days been sold their worth is £8400 per day.

[ColinF]

 

Of course HMRC could rightly argue that, in this instance, had the days been sold their worth is £8400 per day.

 

Not to work out the taxable benefit, they have to follow the rules like everyone else

[norfolk dumpling]

ColinF you sound like an HMRC official or a tax accountant - worrying!

[matone]

It's the really big shoots that will struggle, i know a couple who have 80+ days booked already this year and 1 over 100, wot normal person can take that ammount off time off work. They pretty much rely on boys on the dole, not right (but to be fair atleast the boys are gettin up and doing something, not a lot of jobs in that valley) but untill thet start paying a proper wage for a days work and stop relying on the fact that people enjoy it and do it for a day out. It was 1 of the few shoots u had to sign in the book, i think i was the only 1 who actually gave my real name unless the rest really are all named after famous cartoon characters

They are runnig a commercial business, my picking up money (i occasionlly go if they are really desperate and i can fit it in) hardly covers my diesel, usually away for 10-12 hrs with my travelling, wages on commercial shoots will have to go up.

 

I do declare it as i claim all my dogs/clothing exp as SE

Correct,many large commercial operations are run at the expense of peoples interest.Time they paid proper rates of pay.

[ColinF]

ColinF you sound like an HMRC official or a tax accountant - worrying!

 

I'm a tax adviser