stiggy84arsenal Posted July 19, 2013 Report Share Posted July 19, 2013 (edited) I don't normally comment on pointless arguments like this, but a few of the comments are really bugging me. It all in my opinion depends on personal circumstances when involving picking up pigeons. Let me give you mine. At this time of year I do not pick up my pigeons. I have no dog due to living arrangements at present. The amount of damage I cause to the crops when picking up shot birds will be far greater than if I leave them. An example of this has happened just the other day. I have been shooting a field of peas from a bale hide. The bale hide is in the middle of the field and the peas are up to my waist. I am 6 foot tall with longish legs. I placed my decoys out in a normal horse shoe pattern. When I got back to the hide I shot 72 pigeon. If I had looked for every single bird the amount of damage that I would cause would be more than the pigeons cause in a few days of feeding. I had a word with the farmer and he is in total agreement with me regarding the situation. As long as the pigeons are kept off his field and I cause as little damage as possible then that is all he is worried about. I am not the only person to shoot up there so if the crops are being trampled on 3 out of 7 days then you might as well leave the pigeons to chomp on the crops as they wouldn't do as much damage! So it's not about laziness or lack of respect for our quarry, I believe it is a respect for the persons livihood you are trying to protect. I can see the bale hide from the farmers garden and you can see where everyone has used the same track to place there decoys out. This is 2 largish fields away. If I can see them then he can too. When crops have been harvested I will then pick up my birds and put them to good use. I know I will be slated for my opinion and what I do but this is just it, my opinion my conscience my farmers wishes. Pete i totally agree... we dont know the shooters situation, also every one has left birds at one time or another, so really the diffirence is a matter of how long were willing to look for without causing damage,,,,, Edited July 19, 2013 by stiggy84arsenal Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fenboy Posted July 19, 2013 Report Share Posted July 19, 2013 I don't normally comment on pointless arguments like this, but a few of the comments are really bugging me. It all in my opinion depends on personal circumstances when involving picking up pigeons. Let me give you mine. At this time of year I do not pick up my pigeons. I have no dog due to living arrangements at present. The amount of damage I cause to the crops when picking up shot birds will be far greater than if I leave them. An example of this has happened just the other day. I have been shooting a field of peas from a bale hide. The bale hide is in the middle of the field and the peas are up to my waist. I am 6 foot tall with longish legs. I placed my decoys out in a normal horse shoe pattern. When I got back to the hide I shot 72 pigeon. If I had looked for every single bird the amount of damage that I would cause would be more than the pigeons cause in a few days of feeding. I had a word with the farmer and he is in total agreement with me regarding the situation. As long as the pigeons are kept off his field and I cause as little damage as possible then that is all he is worried about. I am not the only person to shoot up there so if the crops are being trampled on 3 out of 7 days then you might as well leave the pigeons to chomp on the crops as they wouldn't do as much damage! So it's not about laziness or lack of respect for our quarry, I believe it is a respect for the persons livihood you are trying to protect. I can see the bale hide from the farmers garden and you can see where everyone has used the same track to place there decoys out. This is 2 largish fields away. If I can see them then he can too. When crops have been harvested I will then pick up my birds and put them to good use. I know I will be slated for my opinion and what I do but this is just it, my opinion my conscience my farmers wishes. Pete And I suppose that every one of those birds was killed clean and none were left to suffer ? even when shooting under the general licence we can be prosecuted for causing un necessary suffering to our quarry . You are right it is a pointless argument though , as some peoples morals are so clearly different to others. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete1dart Posted July 19, 2013 Report Share Posted July 19, 2013 No one can ever guarantee a clean kill. If it looks like I have only wounded the bird I have another 2 shots to hopefully make sure the quarry is killed humanely. Many times I have hit birds that have flown on. Dropping into a tree a long way off sometimes when they are just dots 6 fields away. Do you look for them? This could go on and on. I do everything I can to make sure the bird or animal is dead, making sure they are not left to suffer. But let's be fare this sometimes is not possible. For example if the quarry goes onto your neighbours land? Where you have no permission to be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JDog Posted July 19, 2013 Report Share Posted July 19, 2013 If I have a bird down six fields away and I have seen it yes I do go and look for it. Having a dog makes it easier to find such birds. If you have a bird down on a neighbouring farmers field where you do not have permission to shoot leave your gun behind and go and look for it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete1dart Posted July 19, 2013 Report Share Posted July 19, 2013 Trying to find a bird 6 fields away is a pain with or without a dog. As I don't have a dog there is maybe a 70% chance that I will not find it. I do look for it but more than not I lose that bird. I have fallen out big time with my neighbours. Not my fault, a long story involving them dogging in birds on our land. Also them walking straight through our main drive on a shoot day. If I get caught on there land it will cause more problems. I think this goes back to my original points of individuals circumstances? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fenboy Posted July 19, 2013 Report Share Posted July 19, 2013 No one can ever guarantee a clean kill. If it looks like I have only wounded the bird I have another 2 shots to hopefully make sure the quarry is killed humanely. Many times I have hit birds that have flown on. Dropping into a tree a long way off sometimes when they are just dots 6 fields away. Do you look for them? This could go on and on. I do everything I can to make sure the bird or animal is dead, making sure they are not left to suffer. But let's be fare this sometimes is not possible. For example if the quarry goes onto your neighbours land? Where you have no permission to be. Yes agreed we all wound and lose birds at times , even those of us with dogs , but I certainly would not be dropping all my birds somewhere I was not able to even attempt to pick them , having another two shot is hardly any use if the bird is 3 ft under some peas and you have no idea where it is , and you are not only going to wound with a first shot , what about ones you wound with your third ? We could argue all day on this but the fact is if I had left 72 birds to rot in a field I would feel ashamed of myself, you clearly think differently and that's your prerogative Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yickdaz Posted July 19, 2013 Report Share Posted July 19, 2013 you always get a few and more birds you can,t find every trip out or you hit a few that fly on out of sight and you have no idea were they went down fine they are lost not through negligence though just genuine lost birds but shooting 100 over standing crops and not picking 1 bird is beyond me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete1dart Posted July 19, 2013 Report Share Posted July 19, 2013 Everyone's opinions are different on many subjects. It's not something I like doing nor do all year round. But if I am going to cause £££'s worth of damage to the crops I have to keep my boss happy or end up having to go looking for more land to shoot on. I know of a farmer who gets very twitchy about people Evan putting decoys out in crops. It must be very frustrating for his pigeon shooters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woody walloper Posted July 19, 2013 Report Share Posted July 19, 2013 some people go out shooting not intending to pick up there birds, in my opinion should not be alowed to shoot live quarry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fruity Posted July 19, 2013 Report Share Posted July 19, 2013 It all depends if we are talking about a few birds whats dropped into a crop or out of sight or what cant be retrieved or to much damage will occure to the crop to collect, compared to piles of dead birds whats been picked up but left in a pile to rot Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turbo33 Posted July 19, 2013 Author Report Share Posted July 19, 2013 i totally agree... we dont know the shooters situation, also every one has left birds at one time or another, so really the diffirence is a matter of how long were willing to look for without causing damage,,,,, The thing is Stiggy, they were on a bare patch of earth 80 yards square, so no fear of crop damage. Regarding crops and damage, I agree that trampling around collecting birds can cause a lot of damage. A dog does far less and some of my farmers are quite relaxed as they are able to lift any flattened barley or wheat with the combine anyway. A small killing zone is far less damaging than a couple of thousand birds working on it for a week or so. When this is not possible, I don't drop them into the crop, I find it far more practical to get them on the flightline to the crop. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sitsinhedges Posted July 19, 2013 Report Share Posted July 19, 2013 All this thread will do is create entrenched positions. I collect every pigeon and sell them frozen. I can understand other peoples circumstances differ but if the crop has been protected and the shooter has had his sport then it's job done even if that isn't a perfect situation. some people go out shooting not intending to pick up there birds, in my opinion should not be alowed to shoot live quarry. Oh don't talk ********, please. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the pigeon man Posted July 19, 2013 Report Share Posted July 19, 2013 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pigeonblasterian Posted July 19, 2013 Report Share Posted July 19, 2013 I pick all my birds up if possible.Then any i do not want get slung in the hedge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woody walloper Posted July 19, 2013 Report Share Posted July 19, 2013 ihave tried to buy the pigeons from people only to be told they can stay where they drop, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sitsinhedges Posted July 19, 2013 Report Share Posted July 19, 2013 I get 40p per bird collected from peterboro game company. The alternative is Garretts of Flore who pay 25p and it takes a 2hr trip and £10 worth of fuel to get them there which usually just isn't a viable alternative unless I happen to be going that way anyway. I don't agree with leaving birds but I can understand it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thepasty Posted July 19, 2013 Report Share Posted July 19, 2013 the very fact that the OP could see the birds on the ground suggests that they would have been easily picked up without damage to crop. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pob Posted July 19, 2013 Report Share Posted July 19, 2013 Surely what matters here is the landowner's opinion? If he wants them shot, no matter what, and he wants you not to damage the crop tramping around trying to find shot birds, then that's what should happen. I have my own permissions but, like most on here, I could probably handle some more. However, I might have to turn down a 'pest control only' offer from a landowner and keep looking elsewhere, but that's just my personal stance. I've foregone an offer to help with rabbit control where nothing is collected; I just can't leave good food rotting in the field. Then again, I've shot over peas when the crop was high and tried to take them near the tramlines to avoid trampling the crop. Inevitably, I lost quite a few, but collected most. Is that necessarily an inconsistent position, much like BakerBoy's? If a guest comes out with me, they have to ensure a clean kill as quickly as possible, pick up everything they shoot to go into the food chain and pick up all litter, including empty cases, most feathers and dog ****, or they don't come again. A bit holier than thou, you might say; you might have a point. But were it legal, and a landowner said to me "Shoot my badgers and you can shoot the deer", I'd have his hand off, even though I love watching badgers. Not many would agree with that, but that's my personal morals again. It's a bit like attitudes to safety too. I've not gone back to places, because the accepted practice was a bit slack, in my view. Again, my personal values. I just took my values to places with a better fit and left them to it. When in Rome, do as the Romans do. If you don't like Roman ways there are plenty of other cities to try. (Don't try Bradford though. Awful place). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sitsinhedges Posted July 19, 2013 Report Share Posted July 19, 2013 the very fact that the OP could see the birds on the ground suggests that they would have been easily picked up without damage to crop. That doesn't mean they had any means of storing /using them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrispti Posted July 19, 2013 Report Share Posted July 19, 2013 If you have a bird down on a neighbouring farmers field where you do not have permission to shoot leave your gun behind and go and look for it. I'd recommend unloading your gun, putting it in its slip and take it with you :blink: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Ghost Posted July 19, 2013 Report Share Posted July 19, 2013 It's amazing what you find out on PW, this post has left me thinking "am I so different from the rest". I thought that we were all like minded people who loved the countryside and respected the animals that lived within it. Last night we shot 71 rabbit and finished at about midnight, at 6am my fellow shooter was back on the field to pick up four we could not find in the dark. I agree we are doing a job for the land owner who is very thankful, but if we were to leave these to rot I think we would loose all respect from him and have no credibility as a shooter controlling vermin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrispti Posted July 19, 2013 Report Share Posted July 19, 2013 (edited) Just out of curiosity, shot pigeons very quickly get fly blown in this weather, for the birds you don't pick up immediately after being shot, that get fly blown, what do you guys do with them? Edited July 19, 2013 by chrispti Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pole Star Posted July 19, 2013 Report Share Posted July 19, 2013 I went to a farm I shoot yesterday to have a go at the pigeons piling into the wheat. On arrival, the place was devoid of pigeons which was very odd as there where large numbers when I reccy'd it two days earlier. After sitting in the truck for some time watching for a flightline to develop, I had a wander down the tram lines to a bare area in the centre of some 80x80 yards. The reasons for the lack of pigeons became apparent. Strewn all over the place were pigeon carcasses, just rotting and fly blown. I could rant from all angles on this one, but in short, what's the point? Killing for the sake of it? If its the excitement of discharging a shotgun, clays are there for all to enjoy. I had a mixture of emotions from anger to great sadness seeing these most sporting of birds just rotting where they fell. There are so many off us that use skills, equipment and field craft to bag a few birds and put them to good use and it sickens me to know there are others that don't operate by the same principal but have access to carry out such abhorrent behaviour. I did take some pics, but you all know what a dead pigeon looks like and to be honest, it would have been quite distasteful to post them. Just had to get it off my chest!! A combi of miserable target shooters & numbers boys I expect ! . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
castletyne Posted July 19, 2013 Report Share Posted July 19, 2013 I never knew dead pigeons on the ground were a good pigeon scarer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turbo33 Posted July 20, 2013 Author Report Share Posted July 20, 2013 (edited) Just out of curiosity, shot pigeons very quickly get fly blown in this weather, for the birds you don't pick up immediately after being shot, that get fly blown, what do you guys do with them? If they are decoying well, I stick with the decoys and keep collecting the real birds and they go in a fly proof bag made for me by Bluebarrels. For the ones that do get eggs on them, its usually around the beak and under the wings. Head off, pluck off any feathers that have eggs on, and they go in a separate bag, so I can take the breasts off. I never knew dead pigeons on the ground were a good pigeon scarer Ok, so next time out, leave a load of shot pigeons belly up and see the effect. Edited July 20, 2013 by turbo33 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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