bringing gun bits back from America

[Sco77w]

Going to America for a bit of a holiday and thought I'd take advantage and buy a few bits. Will I be able to buy magazines for my 15-22 and will I be able to bring them back in to the UK? And maybe a few shotgun bits like mag tube extensions and clamps.

[Bleeh]

Right, I've done some reading and franlky I've come up confused.

What it obvious is that for a country with lax gun laws, the US has very tight export laws. Some websites seem to suggest that you can with non-major components worth less than $100 total, others seem to say not at all, and someone say that it's not worth it.

Frankly any saving you'd make seems to not be worth the humongous amounts of **** you'd have falling on you from a very high height if you got things wrong, but I'll let you be the judge.

Further reading:

http://www.borderview.com/services/for-individuals/100-export-exemption-details/

https://help.cbp.gov/app/answers/detail/a_id/388/kw/EXPORTING%20GUNS%20AND%20GUN%20PARTS/session/L3RpbWUvMTM3OTQ1NzM1NC9zaWQvWmR6anFBQWw%3D

http://www.mdshooters.com/showthread.php?t=26633

Edited September 17, 2013 by Bleeh

[phaedra1106]

Most of the info on what can or can't be exported on sites like Brownells/Sinclairs, Midway USA or Cabelas etc. is wrong, they err heavily on the side of caution for a huge amount of things that are not actually restricted by ITAR. Do a search on here as there are numerous threads about bringing stuff back from the US.

 

One trip we brought back 115Kg of reloading kit including a Sightron scope, 3,500 bullets, 2 reloading presses, 1.500 brass cases, dies, powder measures etc. etc. Apart from firearms the main things that you can't bring back without an export permit are powders and primers. Magazines and most gun parts up to a value of $100 are OK.

 

My friend is going over tomorrow and is bringing me back a mag extension and side saddle shell holder for my 870, some RCBS case lube, a stock kit for my Handi rifle and more dies etc., none of these are on the ITAR list.

 

The links above show information for the following,

 

Exporting a firearm - As a visitor to the US under the visa waiver program you can't buy one, you have to be resident for at least 90 days and even then you would have to apply for the export license which could take weeks to months.

 

Value of parts that can be exported being raised from $100 to $300 - This only applies to exporting to Canada

Edited September 17, 2013 by phaedra1106

[JonathanL]

Hmm,....I think we've discussed fetching back reloading components before somewhere? The below is an extract from the US Munitionls List of controlled items which is derived from the Arms Export Control Act and ITAR regulations;

 

http://www.pmddtc.state.gov/regulations_laws/documents/official_itar/ITAR_Part_121.pdf

 

"CATEGORY III—AMMUNITION/ORDNANCE

* (a) Ammunition/ordnance for the articles

in Categories I and II of this section.

 

( B) Ammunition/ordnance handling equipment

specifically designed or modified for

the articles controlled in this category, such

as, belting, linking, and de-linking equipment.

 

© Equipment and tooling specifically designed

or modified for the production of defense

articles controlled by this category.

 

(d) Components, parts, accessories, attachments

and associated equipment specifically

designed or modified for the articles in this

category:..."

 

There is a similarly worded bit in the preceeding category which refers to firearms. So, I would imagine that a magazine is a "part" of or an "accessory" to a firearm, hence, is controlled.

 

I'm very much with Bleeh, on this one. It simply isn't worth it. Even if I'm totally wrong and magazines and loading components aren't caught by these regs then it still isn't worth the hassle which will inevitably ensue if a US customs official decides he doesn't like your face.

 

J.

 

Edit; And a few paragraphs down it says;

 

"

(1) The components, parts, accessories and

attachments controlled in this category include,

but are not limited to cartridge cases,

powder bags (or other propellant charges),

bullets, jackets, cores, shells (excluding

shotgun shells), projectiles (including canister

rounds and submunitions therefor),

boosters, firing components therefor, primers,

and other detonating devices for the defense

articles controlled in this category."

Edited September 18, 2013 by JonathanL

[saddler]

Hmm,....I think we've discussed fetching back reloading components before somewhere? The below is an extract from the US Munitionls List of controlled items which is derived from the Arms Export Control Act and ITAR regulations;

 

http://www.pmddtc.state.gov/regulations_laws/documents/official_itar/ITAR_Part_121.pdf

 

"CATEGORY III—AMMUNITION/ORDNANCE

* (a) Ammunition/ordnance for the articles

in Categories I and II of this section.

 

( B) Ammunition/ordnance handling equipment

specifically designed or modified for

the articles controlled in this category, such

as, belting, linking, and de-linking equipment.

 

© Equipment and tooling specifically designed

or modified for the production of defense

articles controlled by this category.

 

(d) Components, parts, accessories, attachments

and associated equipment specifically

designed or modified for the articles in this

category:..."

 

There is a similarly worded bit in the preceeding category which refers to firearms. So, I would imagine that a magazine is a "part" of or an "accessory" to a firearm, hence, is controlled.

 

I'm very much with Bleeh, on this one. It simply isn't worth it. Even if I'm totally wrong and magazines and loading components aren't caught by these regs then it still isn't worth the hassle which will inevitably ensue if a US customs official decides he doesn't like your face.

 

J.

 

Always thinking of the higher things...it's not your face they will be subjecting to a cavity search if you get stopped with ITAR goods

[Cannon]

Post the items back to yourself

[Lord O War]

I recently tried to buy some grips for a deactivated .44 magnum revolver on ebay from a US based seller. He listed the UK as a shipping destination but the carrier, usps i think, returned them to the sender as not able to leave the country. I got a refund of the grips but not the postage and his listings have changed now.

[_Spud_]

Night vision equipment, high capacity magazines over 10 rounds all have ITAR's on them. So you could bring a 25 round mag back for a 22 and if they find it you will be done.

 

To be honest, other bits are fine to bring back in. scopes of none night vision, and not mil dot, stocks and other parts are fine. Just don’t put them in hand luggage lol

[JonathanL]

Night vision equipment, high capacity magazines over 10 rounds all have ITAR's on them. So you could bring a 25 round mag back for a 22 and if they find it you will be done.

 

To be honest, other bits are fine to bring back in. scopes of none night vision, and not mil dot, stocks and other parts are fine. Just don’t put them in hand luggage lol

 

It's not just night vision. It's any scope which is made to 'military specifications' which is subject to ITAR regs. What the definition of that is I don't know but I suspect that it could be quite wide. I certainly don't fancy arguing the finer points of US military equipment export law with a customs agent. They tend to be rather serious about these sorts of things, you know.

 

As to stocks; well, that section I posted mentions 'parts' of articles specified in the regulations. Good look arguing that a stock isn't 'part' of a firearm.

 

J.

[phaedra1106]

Mil Dot scopes are fine, it's only scopes that are primarily designed for military applications or have vision enhancement that are restricted by ITAR. ALL sporting optics fall under the Department of Commerce regulations - fortunately the UK is a trusted partner for optics so not a problem.

 

Stocks are also permitted, Boyds for instance (who are fully aware of ITAR restrictions) will happily export a stock to the UK.

 

The ITAR component parts quoted above refer to Defence Components ITAR, Section 121.1, Category III "Ammunition and Ordanance" paragraph (f)(3) :"Equipment and tooling in paragraph © of this category does not include equipment for hand-loading ammunition.

Edited September 19, 2013 by phaedra1106

[JonathanL]

Mil Dot scopes are fine, it's only scopes that are primarily designed for military applications or have vision enhancement that are restricted by ITAR. ALL sporting optics fall under the Department of Commerce regulations - fortunately the UK is a trusted partner for optics so not a problem.

 

Stocks are also permitted, Boyds for instance (who are fully aware of ITAR restrictions) will happily export a stock to the UK.

 

The ITAR component parts quoted above refer to Defence Components ITAR, Section 121.1, Category III "Ammunition and Ordanance" paragraph (f)(3) :"Equipment and tooling in paragraph © of this category does not include equipment for hand-loading ammunition.

 

Boyds will export some of their gear. We've just had an Evolution from them, in fact, but they won't ship the Tacticool internationally, even though it's below the magic $100 mark. No idea why, presumably because it's got 'taci' in the name or some such stupidity.

 

Para C refers to the tooling which is used to make ammo or components but not to assemble them into ammo (eg; jacket drawing dies. Reloading presses and dies are exempt). Para D is the one which refers to ammunition components and I can't find any exemption to it. Brass and bullets are not allowed to be exported without a licence.

 

J.

Edited September 19, 2013 by JonathanL

[phaedra1106]

It's all a huge mess with different agencies interpreting the regulations their own way, same with suppliers like Brownells, Midway USA etc. most are so afraid of being fined they slapped a blanket ban on anything that looks remotely like it may come under ITAR.

 

Over the last 7 years I've brought back thousands of bullets and cases, mil-dot scopes, red dot scopes, electronic powder measures, several reloading presses, numerous dies and reloading tooling, stocks, magazines in 10, 17 & 25 round capacities etc. etc, almost every trip our luggage has been opened and thoroughly inspected, the only thing that has ever been removed has been Birchwood Casey brass cleaning fluid as it's a Hazmat problem.

Edited September 19, 2013 by phaedra1106

[situndertree]

What about Aftermarket Parts for say a 10/22?

 

Can you buy trigger parts/assemblies, hammers, magazine releases etc and have them shipped to the UK by post?

 

Cheers

[timmy1146]

I've bought back a pint of hoppe's no 9 in my checked luggage, it was opened and they left it in there even though im sure it was hazmat. Most recently have parts for my remington versa max, mag extensions, firing pin, springs, extractor, hammer. Never had any problems. Sometimes think the TSA don't know what the exact law is.

[phaedra1106]

Hoppe's no.9 is fine, no Hazmat problem, I got the 2 pint bottle

[Sco77w]

I managed to bring back some magazines for my M&P 15-22 without a problem.