Log burner advice

[houlsby]

Anyone had any experience with a back boiler on a log burner connected to the central heating?

[Gimlet]

I've got an eco fan as well

 

I'm a bit confused about the liners, Why do we have to have them I know some people that don't have a liner? We have a liner for the woodburner but obviously not one for the open fire.

 

They reduce fire risk in old flues. Masonry and mortar becomes degraded and gaps open up through which ignition can occur either directly from sparks or flames or indirectly from heat transfer through the brickwork, particulary in the event of a chimney fire. The greatest danger occurs where the flue passes through the roof space and an insulated liner protects this lighly combustible part of the building from the heat of a live flue. Liners are also much easier to keep clean so the chances of a chimney fire are greatly reduced and by restricting the width of the flue they often inprove the draw.

The downside is that being metal they absorb and store heat instead of dissipating it as masonry does, and as heat rises this build-up tends to be concentrated at the top of the stack. This is a particular problem in thatched roofs and as wood burners have become popular many fires have been caused in thatched properties by poorly fitted liners. In thatched buildings insulating the liner is essential and the chimney void should be vented to allow hot air to escape. (In some instances regulations require aluminium heat shields to be fitted around the stack where it is in contact with the thatch.) In fact any lined chimney should have a vented void to prevent the build-up of condensation which leads to chimney sweat showing through as damp usually at ceiling level in an upper room where the chimney breast enters the cold roof space.

 

All new build live-fire flues are now constructed with pumice or concrete liners insulated from the outer masonry with ceramic beads or vermiculite and cement dust. Chimneys built in this way don't need a retro-fitted liner.

[Sprackles]

I'm sure u have looked into it and priced it all but...

With the massive demand for wood/timber nowadays and everyone having log burners they are not the cheap option they once were.

 

If u have access to free or cheap wood and can log and split it urself, go for it and fill ur boots, but if ur meaning to buy all timber in prob be cheaper with gas.

Softwood is going for 80-100 a ton up here, and were generally a cheap area (sw scot) an 1 ton doesn't last that long

£60 cubic meter of hardwood here...

[Fisherman Mike]

Misses wants a log burner but I'm unsure of what flu I need etc , ordingally we had a gas fire with back boiler but that's been removed as we've had a combi installed elsewhere so we now have a open fire place and the old gas flu still up the chimney , can I just connect up to that or do we need a new flu first?

You say you have an open fireplace so presumably you must have a chimney which the gas flue ran in.

 

What age is your property ? it may not be necessary to install a new flue for a wood burner if the existing chimney lining is either concrete or clay is sound and meets Class 1 requirements of the current building regulations approved document J I think it is. I am afraid many unscrupulous installers are keen to sell you a new flue system when one is not necessarily required, even the registered Hetas guy wouldn't install one in my house unless I bought the £1500 stainless steel flue which was actually inferior to the existing rebated terracotta liners I already had... He didn't realise I was a Fellow and Chartered member of the IOB and knew the building regulations better than he did.

 

So before you go shelling out, have a look at your existing chimney lining as you may just need to install a short length of enamelled flue through a new register plate into the existing chimney.

 

Don't forget provision of combustible air and Co sensor/alarm too.... though if you have an open fire already and the house is reasonably modern you may already have airbricks installed already.

Edited November 1, 2013 by Fisherman Mike

[kent]

Anyone had any experience with a back boiler on a log burner connected to the central heating?

You can use a centraliser to connect into existing heating with another source, though if its an addition to an existing form of heating then read up on Thermal stores- if you have some space. This is not a DIY job. Basically think of the thermal store as a giant battery that you change up and it holds the heat till required. You do this by batch burning and it evens out the cycling of conventional oil or gas boilers.

 

Running anything off a stove though will diminish the heat output into the room, no free lunches

[Mick Shaw]

If your getting a log burner get one of those little heat powered fans that sit on top making a massive difference. We went from only heating the kitchen to heating the whole of downstairs by just moving a small amount of air around.

Hi Tom

What sort of fan do you have ? there seems to be all sorts at very different prices.

Thanks

Mick.

[The Croc]

Anyone had any experience with a back boiler on a log burner connected to the central heating?

Had one of these fitted http://www.charnwood.com/range/stove/slx-45.aspx works a treat, run 6 rads off it, living room is very comfortable

[samyw]

1. get the best flue you can install it will pay you back in burn efficiency.

2. don't burn wood till its real well seasoned talking years not months

3. good smokeless fuel burns longer and will stay in all night

4. don't bother with pallets or other rubbish fuels

 

If your on mains gas and have limited access to logs or storage space, don't bother

 

Wood doesn't take years to season depends were it's seasoning for one best is a dry place with air circulating I cut split and season lots of wood 12 months is plenty in correct conditions also depends on the wood ash can be burnt nearly straight away woods like pop and willow need twelve months or so also always cut and split wood before seasoning it drys better that way

[Nikk]

Hi Tom

What sort of fan do you have ? there seems to be all sorts at very different prices.

Thanks

Mick.

 

http://www.ecofan.co.uk/

[al4x]

I've recently got a £50 eBay special and it works really well. Couldn't say if it will be as reliable as the real deal but so far so good

[Dave TS]

Be warned fit it yourself and you have a fire as a result your insurers may not pay out, they are always looking for any excuse not to.

What, you mean like you do a rubbish dangerous job of installing a stove/flue yourself, burn your house down through your own stupidity or penny pinching, then expect your insurer (and therefore other policyholders) to pay for all that? Insurance is not a dustbin for people's Darwin Award efforts .

[FIESTA]

hi forgot to say if you fit it yourselve you must get it checked by your local council,who will give you a saftey cert atb

[Nikk]

What, you mean like you do a rubbish dangerous job of installing a stove/flue yourself, burn your house down through your own stupidity or penny pinching, then expect your insurer (and therefore other policyholders) to pay for all that? Insurance is not a dustbin for people's Darwin Award efforts .

 

How can you do a bad job of installing a flue? Its a metal tube.

[henry d]

I`ve been to a fire that was caused by a pro installer who made a bad job of installing the liner.

[dorianbuilders]

What was the cause of the fire and bad installation Henry?

[Gimlet]

 

How can you do a bad job of installing a flue? Its a metal tube.

 

For one thing by failing to use the correct top plate and top bracket and failing to insulate and point up between the liner and the pot so that hot matter can fall down between the liner and the pot and cause a chimney fire outside the liner within the chimney void where it will be very difficult and sometimes impossible to extinquish before it is too late. Such a bodge is usually the result of someone who hasn't done it before (How hard can it be...) thinking they can drop the liner off a ladder or by standing wobbling about on the ridge because they're too tight to provide proper access and can't be bothered/don't know how to remove the pots and reset and reflaunch them correctly.

Or for another, someone bodging with the wrong type of liner and fitting it without insulation or the correct terminal fittings so that it slumps against the chimney breast in the roof space creating a dangerous hotspot, possibly right next to a roof timber or an empty mortar joint.

Or someone using the wrong stove flue to liner adaptor, or fitting it poorly because they find it just too difficult and giving up with a hal****** job so that hot gases and carbon monoxide leak into the chimney void.

I could go on. If you wonder what could possibly go wrong with a simple job like fitting a flue liner, ask a fireman.

[Catweazle]

Anyone had any experience with a back boiler on a log burner connected to the central heating?

I had a Dunsley Yorkshire with backboiler, it heated the whole house and supplied hot water via a 210 litre tank. It was excellent, but I had my own woodland to feed it, I wouldn't want to pay South East prices for wood.

[henry d]

What was the cause of the fire and bad installation Henry?

 

They put the flue into a chimney without checking the chimney thoroughly and at the upper rear of the fireplace was a protruding piece of wood which had been placed there for some older work to the wall to the rear of the fireplace. They should have been able to see this wood from the fireplace itself.

[Dougy]

Anyone had any experience with a back boiler on a log burner connected to the central heating?

 

We have a Hunter 8 with back boiler, it does 5 rads and heats the water. As has been said it does take heat from the fire itself but if it didnt it would be far too warm in the room that its in, and to be honest we are glad we made the choice of the back boiler.

 

And as far as burning pallets goes, they dont cost me a penny apart from little time cutting them up, no they wont stay in over night but thankfully at the moment we are both fit and well enough to get up once in a while to chuck a few bits on now and again

If you need it to stay in over night then obviously you need some good solid logs putting on before you close it down.

[Gimlet]

 

They put the flue into a chimney without checking the chimney thoroughly and at the upper rear of the fireplace was a protruding piece of wood which had been placed there for some older work to the wall to the rear of the fireplace. They should have been able to see this wood from the fireplace itself.

 

 

The log burner in my house was fitted long before I came here. The liner is fine, its back-filled pumice all the way up. The problem was the register plate. The fireplace is a large inglenook, about 7 feet wide and 4 feet deep. There is a single large plate on a heavy iron frame blanking off the whole opening and supporting the liner with a smaller lighter plate at the centre around the stove flue. I found out one winter morning that whoever had fitted it had cut that smaller plate the wrong size. Rather than cutting it wider than the hole it had to cover so that it overlapped the frame and could be screwed into it, they cut it the same size as the hole so it passed straight through. Instead of cutting a new plate to the correct size they had packed out the frame with 4X2 timber right next to the hot flue pipe. One morning I'd made up the fire before going to work and shut it down to keep it ticking over until the evening. I went to feed the ferrets and came back through the house half an hour later. As I went out through the front door I heard a loud roaring noise and saw that the register plate around the flue pipe was red hot. The 4X2s had ignited. I had to empty the fire out into a steel bucket, knock off the very hot flue pipe and discharge a fire extinquisher up the chimney. The house is thatched. If I hadn't had to see to the ferrets and had left straight after making the fire up the house would have been gone when I got back.