Deker Posted January 8, 2014 Report Share Posted January 8, 2014 Maybe make benefits less than the minimum wage instead. Have a look through the off topic section for people importing goods from the states because they're cheaper, this is just a shooting site so imagine how many other people with different hobbies start importing their goods from abroad too because the goods in the UK have just gone up again due to the new minimum wage. The people who will suffer most from an increased minimum wage are the people on it, people with more money will still be able to afford the new higher prices goods, the people on benefits will get a cost of living increase to cover the new higher prices but the people on minimum wage will struggle more because the basic commodities have just gone up to cover their increase, all you will see is more people out of work (small firms closing as they now can't compete with foreign goods) and the people on minimum wage still suffering Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apache Posted January 8, 2014 Report Share Posted January 8, 2014 TBH - I'm not really a beliver in having anyone set a minimum wage, let the market decide. If you want people to clean toilets and you advertise at £4 and they take the job then great. If you need to pay £10 to get staff to clean the toilets you'll have to. If we are going to have one then I also quite like the idea that 40hours at minimum wage could be the single person benefits cap. £6.31 X 40 = £252.40 per week. That way you would not be better off on benefits. Even if we 'protected' that income so if they work 20 hours they get half wage and half benefit. Try to encurrage them back to work and reduce strain on benefits system. (although watching a recent TV programme I'm not sure some of the unemployed are suitable for work) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aris Posted January 8, 2014 Report Share Posted January 8, 2014 TBH - I'm not really a beliver in having anyone set a minimum wage, let the market decide. If you want people to clean toilets and you advertise at £4 and they take the job then great. If you need to pay £10 to get staff to clean the toilets you'll have to. The 'market' is elastic and is subject to the whims of supply and demand. The way things are now, we have a pretty unlimited supply - via uncontrolled EU immigration. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
castletyne Posted January 8, 2014 Report Share Posted January 8, 2014 Perhaps you should tell David Cameron and the CBI your secret! There's no secret to it If my business had to rely on paying poor wages just so it could survive personally I would close it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
overandunder2012 Posted January 8, 2014 Author Report Share Posted January 8, 2014 spot on... why work when you are better off sat at home on benefits exactly who would? only an idiot. no decent mw and thats what you get Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
overandunder2012 Posted January 8, 2014 Author Report Share Posted January 8, 2014 (edited) There's no secret to it If my business had to rely on paying poor wages just so it could survive personally I would close it exactly if a business cant afford workers it should stay a 1 man band its probably doomed anyway if its making no money Edited January 8, 2014 by overandunder2012 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deker Posted January 8, 2014 Report Share Posted January 8, 2014 (edited) exactly if a business cant afford workers it should stay a 1 man band its probably doomed anyway if its making no money Not all businesses make a high turn over, some are just happy to stay small and only have several employees while still providing an affordable product\service (and this is their business plan), remember that a bit of industry competition is healthy and forcing these small industries out of business could also have adverse effects on pricing. Edited January 8, 2014 by Deker Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dekers Posted January 8, 2014 Report Share Posted January 8, 2014 (edited) exactly if a business cant afford workers it should stay a 1 man band its probably doomed anyway if its making no money Where do you get that giant leap of assumption? Tell that to Tesco, Asda, etc who make serious profits! castletyne has more than suggested he pays staff a MINIMUM of £10+ an hour that is circa £20K, the vast majority of shop workers, as an example, are on a lot less than that, is Tesco, Asda, etc., doomed and should they have stayed a 1 man band?!! Edited January 8, 2014 by Dekers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kiffy Posted January 8, 2014 Report Share Posted January 8, 2014 firstly let me say i would love the minimum wage to be a tenner as im on a fair bit under that myself and due to our company struggling the pas tfew years havent had a pay rise in about six years but i have faith in my compnay and love the work so am sticking with it.but when it comes to a tenner an hour we have to be realistic as the more wages go up the more the products and services we pay for with our wages will have to rise to pay for the wage increase so we wont really be any better off Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aris Posted January 8, 2014 Report Share Posted January 8, 2014 Not all businesses make a high turn over, some are just happy to stay small and only have several employees while still providing an affordable product\service (and this is their business plan), remember that a bit of industry competition is healthy and forcing these small industries out of business could also have adverse effects on pricing. When you have a legally binding minimum wage, it levels the playing field though. Everyone has to pay it. Might costs go up for customers? Yes, but it would for everyone providing the service too. Also keep in mind that low incomes are often subsidised by the taxpayer - in the form of benefit of some sort or another. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leeds chimp Posted January 8, 2014 Report Share Posted January 8, 2014 exactly who would? only an idiot. no decent mw and thats what you get thanks for the complement of being called an idiot.... :lol: unlike some on that show I have pride and want to pay my own way ...not sit at home all day ..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deker Posted January 8, 2014 Report Share Posted January 8, 2014 When you have a legally binding minimum wage, it levels the playing field though. Everyone has to pay it. Might costs go up for customers? Yes, but it would for everyone providing the service too. Also keep in mind that low incomes are often subsidised by the taxpayer - in the form of benefit of some sort or another. It becomes a vicious circle though, minimum wage doesn't leave enough to pay the bills so the minimum wage gets raised, this in turn raises the cost of goods so then the new minimum wage no longer leaves enough to pay the bills. where does it stop £10, £15, £20 per hour? Now if you reduce the benefits to less than minimum wage so that working for a living seems more appealing, that gets more money into the system from the workers (and also less going out as benefits), it would also create more spending which in turn would create more jobs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chady Posted January 8, 2014 Report Share Posted January 8, 2014 Never met you! But I like you! Your a decent bloke! There's no secret to it If my business had to rely on paying poor wages just so it could survive personally I would close it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
castletyne Posted January 8, 2014 Report Share Posted January 8, 2014 It becomes a vicious circle though, minimum wage doesn't leave enough to pay the bills so the minimum wage gets raised, this in turn raises the cost of goods so then the new minimum wage no longer leaves enough to pay the bills. where does it stop £10, £15, £20 per hour? Now if you reduce the benefits to less than minimum wage so that working for a living seems more appealing, that gets more money into the system from the workers (and also less going out as benefits), it would also create more spending which in turn would create more jobs prices don't need to go up it depends on how greedy the bosses are I remember my first job we kept being told there no rises this year times are hard But the owner still bought his flash car and had his villa in Spain it was all down to greed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aris Posted January 8, 2014 Report Share Posted January 8, 2014 It becomes a vicious circle though, minimum wage doesn't leave enough to pay the bills so the minimum wage gets raised, this in turn raises the cost of goods so then the new minimum wage no longer leaves enough to pay the bills. where does it stop £10, £15, £20 per hour? Now if you reduce the benefits to less than minimum wage so that working for a living seems more appealing, that gets more money into the system from the workers (and also less going out as benefits), it would also create more spending which in turn would create more jobs This is why the cost of living has to come down to offset that. Housing, energy, transport. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deker Posted January 8, 2014 Report Share Posted January 8, 2014 prices don't need to go up it depends on how greedy the bosses are I remember my first job we kept being told there no rises this year times are hard But the owner still bought his flash car and had his villa in Spain it was all down to greed I agree a lot of that will go on like it always has, but there will be casualties as a lot of small companies who are just keeping their business above water will need to cut back on staff or fold, look at some of the high streets there's loads of small shops and companies who have gone under in the last few years (I know it's not related to the minimum wage but it shows how close to the breadline they had been operating). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deker Posted January 8, 2014 Report Share Posted January 8, 2014 This is why the cost of living has to come down to offset that. Housing, energy, transport. That's right but the only way I could see that happening is to get more people working and getting more tax into the system and less going out, although that would rely on the government actually dropping some taxes due to more coming in and less going out! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnFreeman1310 Posted January 8, 2014 Report Share Posted January 8, 2014 I'm a skilled welder and didn't get the pay rise this year but all the minimum wage got it I don't think that's fair Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kdubya Posted January 8, 2014 Report Share Posted January 8, 2014 (edited) Where do you get that giant leap of assumption? Tell that to Tesco, Asda, etc who make serious profits! castletyne has more than suggested he pays staff a MINIMUM of £10+ an hour that is circa £20K, the vast majority of shop workers, as an example, are on a lot less than that, is Tesco, Asda, etc., doomed and should they have stayed a 1 man band?!! yeah while the taxpayer subsidies their workers via tax credits, perhaps they could pull back on their profit a bit :no: the likes of tesco should be forced to pay a living wage. KW Edited January 8, 2014 by kdubya Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnFreeman1310 Posted January 8, 2014 Report Share Posted January 8, 2014 And I'm not being funny but some jobs don't justify paying 10pound per hour I had to pay for my education and skill to do the job I do why should sombody who didn't finish school be payed more than some people who trained and continued in education. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oscarsdad Posted January 8, 2014 Report Share Posted January 8, 2014 TBH - I'm not really a beliver in having anyone set a minimum wage, let the market decide. If you want people to clean toilets and you advertise at £4 and they take the job then great. If you need to pay £10 to get staff to clean the toilets you'll have to. If we are going to have one then I also quite like the idea that 40hours at minimum wage could be the single person benefits cap. £6.31 X 40 = £252.40 per week. That way you would not be better off on benefits. Even if we 'protected' that income so if they work 20 hours they get half wage and half benefit. Try to encurrage them back to work and reduce strain on benefits system. (although watching a recent TV programme I'm not sure some of the unemployed are suitable for work) Totally agree Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oscarsdad Posted January 8, 2014 Report Share Posted January 8, 2014 (edited) And I'm not being funny but some jobs don't justify paying 10pound per hour I had to pay for my education and skill to do the job I do why should sombody who didn't finish school be payed more than some people who trained and continued in education. Exactly - I left university with a £20k loan debt after paying fees etc, people a few years younger than me could easily have more than double that. Why should people who have made this personal investment earn the same as someone who hasn't tried to gain qualifications or at risk of being shot down, isn't capable of gaining them? There are many graduates now (in general I hate the term "graduate" and I mean people with proper degrees in real subects not a BA in Colouring In from the university of a region of England that used to be a swimming pool) working for free or for very little in order to gain experience in very competitive job market - how can it be justified to pay someone cleaning the bogs the same amount as someone who has invested in a degree? Edited January 8, 2014 by oscarsdad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yates Posted January 8, 2014 Report Share Posted January 8, 2014 I manage a small business with roughly 35 employees. Probably 70% of my employees are on minimum wage. My business is in healthcare and our income is taken from the local authority. i cannot generate further income from what we are currently getting. We deliver a quality service and our order books are always full. If i were to increase the minimum wage from £6.31 to £7.31 let alone £10.00 this business will fold. Simple. I must add that my employees deserve to be on a much higher rate of pay. a nice thought but it ain't going to happen. What will happen to small business this year when the employer has to contribute to staff pensions?, what will happen when annual leave goes from 5.6 to 6 weeks per annum? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kdubya Posted January 8, 2014 Report Share Posted January 8, 2014 I'm a skilled welder and didn't get the pay rise this year but all the minimum wage got it I don't think that's fair swap then then if they are better off. KW Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
overandunder2012 Posted January 8, 2014 Author Report Share Posted January 8, 2014 Where do you get that giant leap of assumption? Tell that to Tesco, Asda, etc who make serious profits! castletyne has more than suggested he pays staff a MINIMUM of £10+ an hour that is circa £20K, the vast majority of shop workers, as an example, are on a lot less than that, is Tesco, Asda, etc., doomed and should they have stayed a 1 man band?!! if there making so much they can afford the minimum wage i aint got all the answers not pretending i have but would love to see workers get a better deal after all they work thanks for the complement of being called an idiot.... :lol: unlike some on that show I have pride and want to pay my own way ...not sit at home all day ..... no offence intended mate Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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