michufc Posted February 6, 2014 Report Share Posted February 6, 2014 I went out for a quick training session this morning and my 14 month ess is coming on well stop whistle stoping to flush recall retreve all coming on well Then today a blew the stop whistle threw the dummy the went to send him and nothing he would not move. Even when I went to him and nothing so I got him to free run and guided him over to the dummy and still nothing so I really had a stress meltdown which would of been really funny to watch looking back now. So I tried a variety of different dummy's and still nothing. So after I had sorted myself out I remembered what someone from this forum told me before always finish with a positive so I went back to puppy mode sat on my **** gave him plenty of fuss found a tennis ball out of the game bag and his eyes lit up so I chucked about 10 yards and he was off like a rocket returned back to hand Any ideas what's going on or what should I do tomorrow with him would be appreciated Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ian g Posted February 6, 2014 Report Share Posted February 6, 2014 Might be worth giving him a few days break from the retrieving and do other training he might of got abit bored if you have done a lot of dummy work with him il give my labs a break every so often and after afew days there all fired up again and out like a rocket to retrieve. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fenboy Posted February 6, 2014 Report Share Posted February 6, 2014 How much retrieving is he doing ? , perhaps he is getting bored , you could try using a rabbit skin dummy or one with some dried out wings attached to spice it up for him . Or as you mention the stop whistle could you have been over doing that and have made him "sticky" Other than that do not panic or get stressed with the dog , if he is anything like my cocker then he will retrieve game just fine even if he is not keen on dummies , my cocker will just look at me with distain if I chuck a dummy or ball but once he is being sent for a pigeon / pheasant etc he cannot get there quick enough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old farrier Posted February 6, 2014 Report Share Posted February 6, 2014 Hi Don't get stressed he will sence it Give him a bit of time out just walks somewhere away from his training routine for a few days bit of chill out time Then try easing him back into it We all have bad days so do animals I'm sure he come round be patient and talk to him quietly !! Look forward to hearing of your progress in a week or two All the best Of Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michufc Posted February 6, 2014 Author Report Share Posted February 6, 2014 Thanks for your comments he is a really timid dog to be honest I will keep you all posted on his progress Cheers mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fatcatsplat Posted February 7, 2014 Report Share Posted February 7, 2014 With mine I found that too much of the stop whistle before a retrieve confused her after a while and she ended up very should I or shouldn't I. Loads of positive reinforcement and then go back a few steps to go forward again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B725 Posted February 7, 2014 Report Share Posted February 7, 2014 You dont need to many retrieves two or three will be enough as that will get better as he gets older.You know that he will retrieve so he may be bored or unsure as you say he is a little timid.Sorry but the meltdown bit will not help at all,just vary the training so the dog does not start to second guess what you will be asking of it,small steps in training is the way to go good luck with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michufc Posted February 7, 2014 Author Report Share Posted February 7, 2014 I took him out this morning and he seams to be very sticky for some reason so I gave him no training today just lots of fuss and free running. So I will give it another go in the morning at a different location I think see if that helps Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted February 7, 2014 Report Share Posted February 7, 2014 Suggestions are go easy on any corrections if the dog is sensitive it can Phase them out like this, do something different and lay off the retrieve drill you have seemingly been doing too much of. A spaniel is for most a hunting dog so hide the tennis balls (as he likes them right?) in advance (effectively seeding the ground) and get him to hunt for them retrieving each in turn. Don't over do the rerieves always leave them wanting more Muddy old soggy canvass dummies its a wonder our dogs retrieve them at all if you ask me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michufc Posted February 7, 2014 Author Report Share Posted February 7, 2014 Suggestions are go easy on any corrections if the dog is sensitive it can Phase them out like this, do something different and lay off the retrieve drill you have seemingly been doing too much of. A spaniel is for most a hunting dog so hide the tennis balls (as he likes them right?) in advance (effectively seeding the ground) and get him to hunt for them retrieving each in turn. Don't over do the rerieves always leave them wanting moreMuddy old soggy canvass dummies its a wonder our dogs retrieve them at all if you ask me Cheers I will try that one in the morning and report back I will leave the rest of the dummies in the truck I think and give him a break Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sonicdmb Posted February 8, 2014 Report Share Posted February 8, 2014 My first spaniel was an eighteen month old rehome springer she would not pick a dummy up at all I thought I'd got a dud. On game she was brilliant. My cocker was put off retrieving by the family snatching things when she was a pup. Took ages to sort but making it exiting seemed to be the thing. A rabbit skin dummy and a fishing rod come in handy reeling in the dummy to lay a trail to hunt then take it off and drop it near the trail. Have you tried cold game yet? if all else fails that should get some interest going. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michufc Posted February 8, 2014 Author Report Share Posted February 8, 2014 Right just to keep you all informed I took all three spaniels out today for there training session and I left my springer till last so he could watch my others doing there training from the truck. When it came to his turn I kept it relaxed free running and I had pre hid a tennis ball and worked him towards the tennis ball hidden in tall grass. Once he caught it's sent it felt like game on here we go this is his normal reaction straight back to hand. So I did one more straight retreve with a rabbit dummy and let him run in a little bit then no more retrieves just turn whistle and stop whistle so today was not to bad. I will keep you posted on the next training session but any training routines are appreciated to keep it fresh Cheers mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B725 Posted February 8, 2014 Report Share Posted February 8, 2014 It will not hurt to let the dog hunt and then when he cannot see drop the ball where the dog has already been then call him back to hunt the same ground so the dog then thinks you knoww more than he does Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michufc Posted February 10, 2014 Author Report Share Posted February 10, 2014 Just a quick update on my spaniel. I went out this morning with him and just worked him through the bracken and brambles he flushed a pheasant and dropped to the whistle really well so I thought I would try the dummy while he had sat then I sent him for the dummy and he would not move from the drop so now I am really confused I have got a dog that will drop to flush then won't budge even once told to A bit of a head scratcher for me but I stayed calm went over gave him plenty of fuss and moved on. Still have no idea what's going on as it's not his fault it's mine for I stilling something in him Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cracker Posted February 10, 2014 Report Share Posted February 10, 2014 Muddy old soggy canvass dummies its a wonder our dogs retrieve them at all if you ask me Just a quick update on my spaniel. I went out this morning with him and just worked him through the bracken and brambles he flushed a pheasant and dropped to the whistle really well so I thought I would try the dummy while he had sat then I sent him for the dummy and he would not move from the drop so now I am really confused I have got a dog that will drop to flush then won't budge even once told to. I would give strong odds the dog knows it didn't flush a dummy and wants a bird for the retrieve. Even when training retrievers at retrieving, we never mix dummies and game - you may get refusals on the dummy, and that leaves you up a creek without a paddle. Although at the weekend, one of mine decided to improvise - out for a run, with dummy in mouth, she came upon the remains of a goose that had been feasted on by an eagle. And wasn't putting dummy or plumage down when she could have both. MG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cracker Posted February 10, 2014 Report Share Posted February 10, 2014 Wouldn't want to give kent the impression that all retrieves are created equal in our force-fetched dogs' eyes, though. michufc, if you've got cold game at hand, you might try giving it a heave after your dog has flushed a bird or bunny, and then hupped to the flush. Might give you a different response if you're "trading" game for game in trying to get a retrieve out of him. MG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B725 Posted February 10, 2014 Report Share Posted February 10, 2014 What I would have done it to let the dog know it has done well with stopping (lots of fuss verbal should be ok ) then called the dog back away from the direction the bird flew. work it on just for a couple of yards then carry on the way you where going.This is where a starter pistol may help throw the dummy and then bang,it will grab the dogs attension then see if he will retrive.If not leave the retieving for a while and work on other things as you know he will fetch the dummy.dont get hung up because he is having a bit of a wobble as you will be forever wondering what you are doing wrong Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michufc Posted February 10, 2014 Author Report Share Posted February 10, 2014 I would just like to say to all that have took time to read my posts thank you very much as I find the comments very helpful and appreciate them all. I think you are right I need to leave the dummy work for a wile then come back to it with game as he might be getting bored of it. I will still keep you all posted if you want me to All the best mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michufc Posted February 10, 2014 Author Report Share Posted February 10, 2014 Cracker that looks like a quality dog mate really strong. Nice one Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michufc Posted February 10, 2014 Author Report Share Posted February 10, 2014 (edited) I have just figured out how to upload photos so here is the offending spaniel like butter wouldn't melt Edited February 10, 2014 by michufc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Actionpigeons Posted February 11, 2014 Report Share Posted February 11, 2014 (edited) Once I get past the tennis ball stage, I use feral pigeons for training from a very early stage. Ferals are tight feathered, unlike wood pigeons that are to lose for training pups. I find my pups never tire or get bored using ferals, however its three retrieves and finish when training. I also only train every other day, always leave the pup wanting more. Edited February 11, 2014 by Actionpigeons Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WGD Posted February 12, 2014 Report Share Posted February 12, 2014 I don't think he's bored, I think you've over cooked it and put too much pressure on a young and possibly soft (?) dog and now he's confused? If he was bored he wouldn't have picked the tennis ball. Forget game, you can't train with game all the time and the dog will need training through the summer. A rabbit skin dummy or the like MIGHT help break a psychological barrier, but it should only unlock a situation and allow you to build from there, you have already done that with a tennis ball and IMO a dog should retrieve what it is asked to, not what it chooses to. What you do need to do is switch him back on or enjoying retrieving. If that is chucking a tennis ball and letting him run, and building that to running in for a dummy before reintroducing steadiness then so be it. Go back a good bit, 14 months is fine for some dogs to progress, others are not much more than pups in their behaviour and mindset. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cracker Posted February 13, 2014 Report Share Posted February 13, 2014 (edited) All that may be true - and applicable, Will - but if michufc can get his mitts on cold game (and preserve it), actionpigeon's advice is on the money. And again the confusion goes away when you refrain from mixing dummies and something that's more, er, animated. Really, there's only one instance when you would want to mix the two - and that's with a tolling dog which is what they were bred for in the first place - along with retrieving "the real thing," of course. Dog flushes a bird and you throw a dummy for the dog's reward, ain't much of a reward a'tall. MG Edited February 13, 2014 by cracker Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WGD Posted February 13, 2014 Report Share Posted February 13, 2014 Think we'll have to agree to disagree MG, for me a dog should retrieve what it is asked to. A dog that won't pick dummies has simply had a stage skipped in it's training. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted February 13, 2014 Report Share Posted February 13, 2014 Not really I have had dogs obsessed with retrieving plastic and canvass etc. that sometimes changed when started proper, it was prevalent to expected in our own Lurchers. How can a stage be said to be skipped over if a dog was once mad for them? I honestly 100% believe the OP had a dog that was bored by too much of the same and the seeded ground trick with tennis balls thing sort of proves that Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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