kitchrat Posted February 14, 2014 Report Share Posted February 14, 2014 I today examined the bodies of the 20 or so pigeons that came into my possession during the latter part of this week. All birds were plump and well-fed, so starvation can be ruled out as cause of death. In fact, most birds had some signs of yellow fat. Only one bird had a fairly full crop (rape), he also had the most fat so may have been a greedy bird and may have died from high blood pressure, stroke or heart attack. Several birds had multiple injuries, which may have been caused by crashing into the group from a considerable height. All birds carried wounds from high-speed lead shot, which in most cases would have caused instant death, some birds with less wounds had broken necks. CONCLUSION: I was doing my job as best I could!! On a more serious note, I was surprised at the number of pellets only just under the skin. Although I am using good Gamebore ammo (speed 1425 fps), pellet penetration was not good. Is this because I cannot get them to decoy well and have to take a number of "speculative" 45yd+ shots?? I know you will say I just hit them with "flyers", some birds had 3 or 4 pellets just under the skin, so must have been quite well in the pattern. I did have several fly 3-400yds then drop out of the sky. Any thoughts?? Either way, it's 20 less to do damage next week. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sitsinhedges Posted February 14, 2014 Report Share Posted February 14, 2014 Shot size? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JDog Posted February 14, 2014 Report Share Posted February 14, 2014 Some of my pigeons recently had pellets outside the skin. I would say on average at least 1-2m from the skin. I blame the cartridges. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woodfordpigeon Posted February 14, 2014 Report Share Posted February 14, 2014 That's why I use No4s.Each pellet that hits the bird does a lot of damage. Hull cartridge 28g 4s.1600 fps full choke. woodfordfallow Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoggysreels Posted February 14, 2014 Report Share Posted February 14, 2014 1600 fps ?¿? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dbw1shrops Posted February 14, 2014 Report Share Posted February 14, 2014 Feet per second ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motty Posted February 14, 2014 Report Share Posted February 14, 2014 1600 fps. Really? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carpentermark Posted February 15, 2014 Report Share Posted February 15, 2014 (edited) Hull only make one 12g cart with a velocity of 1600fps and thats the 'hull sovereign parcours' and shot sizes start at 6.5. http://www.hullcartridge.co.uk/sovereignparcours.htm http://www.bywellshootingground.co.uk/store/cartridges/hull_competition_/hull_sovereign_parcours_28_gram_ Edited February 15, 2014 by carpentermark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marsh man Posted February 15, 2014 Report Share Posted February 15, 2014 Good god man I never knew this fps even excisted. I used to use 1000s of Bakeiel cartridges and they had every speed in the book from dead slow to super sonic and that was in a box of 25 ,but they still seamed to kill a lot of pigeons Now I use Gamebore clear pigeon 30 grams 6s ,what speed they are I haven't got a clue and before you tell me I am not that interested as long as I keep getting a few . I know it take me twice as long to get my gun up now but that's down to old age not FPS. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woodfordpigeon Posted February 15, 2014 Report Share Posted February 15, 2014 Hull only make one 12g cart with a velocity of 1600fps and thats the 'hull sovereign parcours' and shot sizes start at 6.5. http://www.hullcartridge.co.uk/sovereignparcours.htm http://www.bywellshootingground.co.uk/store/cartridges/hull_competition_/hull_sovereign_parcours_28_gram_ Well I use HULL EXTREAM GAME 28G 4s I do believe they are 1600 fps. It doesn't say on the box.woodfordpigeon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TIGHTCHOKE Posted February 15, 2014 Report Share Posted February 15, 2014 On a more serious note, I was surprised at the number of pellets only just under the skin. Although I am using good Gamebore ammo (speed 1425 fps), pellet penetration was not good. Is this because I cannot get them to decoy well and have to take a number of "speculative" 45yd+ shots?? I know you will say I just hit them with "flyers", some birds had 3 or 4 pellets just under the skin, so must have been quite well in the pattern. I did have several fly 3-400yds then drop out of the sky. Any thoughts?? Either way, it's 20 less to do damage next week. What degree of choke are you using? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poontang Posted February 15, 2014 Report Share Posted February 15, 2014 That's why I use No4s.Each pellet that hits the bird does a lot of damage. Hull cartridge 28g 4s.1600 fps full choke. woodfordfallow Can't see the point in using a load like that. 6's will do the job at any sensible distance, in fact a good trap shell will have nearly 3 times as many pellets and through full choke will kill birds stone dead all day long. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motty Posted February 15, 2014 Report Share Posted February 15, 2014 Can't see the point in using a load like that. 6's will do the job at any sensible distance, in fact a good trap shell will have nearly 3 times as many pellets and through full choke will kill birds stone dead all day long. I can't disagree with that. I wouldn't use lead 4s on pigeon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dead eye alan Posted February 15, 2014 Report Share Posted February 15, 2014 I can't disagree with that. I wouldn't use lead 4s on pigeon. No me nether 6's norm but have yous'ed 5's they all do the job if gun pointed in right direction and in range. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hamster Posted February 15, 2014 Report Share Posted February 15, 2014 I know it sounds silly but is it possible you're mistaking pellets that have gone through and stopped just below the skin on the other side ? Pellets don't always make it out the other side but either way it's unlikely that the shells are to blame because to only just break skin even at 45 yards, they'd have to be going off with a tellingly small bang !? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Mat Posted February 15, 2014 Report Share Posted February 15, 2014 Well I use HULL EXTREAM GAME 28G 4s I do believe they are 1600 fps. It doesn't say on the box.woodfordpigeon How do you know what speed they are doing if it doesnt say on the box? Have you chrono'd them? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woodfordpigeon Posted February 15, 2014 Report Share Posted February 15, 2014 I can't disagree with that. I wouldn't use lead 4s on pigeon.Have you ever pattern plated your gun cartridge combination. You might be quite surprised. My pattern plate is 8ft squire and set at 70 yards. Steel plate in the centre which we repaint after each shot. This combination is ideal for my gun set up at the range I shoot at. 7.5s simply have no striking velocity left at that range. 4s with full choke give a good pattern and still hit hard. So you hit and kill or miss. This combination makes close shots difficult. I hope I have helped woodfordpigeon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
remmyman Posted February 15, 2014 Report Share Posted February 15, 2014 Have you ever pattern plated your gun cartridge combination. You might be quite surprised. My pattern plate is 8ft squire and set at 70 yards. Steel plate in the centre which we repaint after each shot. This combination is ideal for my gun set up at the range I shoot at. 7.5s simply have no striking velocity left at that range. 4s with full choke give a good pattern and still hit hard. So you hit and kill or miss. This combination makes close shots difficult. I hope I have helped woodfordpigeon I think someone needs to take a reality check! Regards remmyman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Mat Posted February 15, 2014 Report Share Posted February 15, 2014 Have you ever pattern plated your gun cartridge combination. You might be quite surprised. My pattern plate is 8ft squire and set at 70 yards. Steel plate in the centre which we repaint after each shot. This combination is ideal for my gun set up at the range I shoot at. 7.5s simply have no striking velocity left at that range. 4s with full choke give a good pattern and still hit hard. So you hit and kill or miss. This combination makes close shots difficult. I hope I have helped woodfordpigeon 70 yards? Is that a measured 70 or what you think is 70? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B725 Posted February 15, 2014 Report Share Posted February 15, 2014 Why 70 yards? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carpentermark Posted February 15, 2014 Report Share Posted February 15, 2014 Why the hell would you pattern a shotgun at 70 yards??? If you are purposely setting out to shoot pigeons at 70+ yards then you are either a world class shot ie George Digweed? Or totally irresponsible with no respect for your quarry? Which is it? Or should i say, which is it George??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dead eye alan Posted February 15, 2014 Report Share Posted February 15, 2014 Why 70 yards? I have a job to see that far! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fenboy Posted February 15, 2014 Report Share Posted February 15, 2014 Have you ever pattern plated your gun cartridge combination. You might be quite surprised. My pattern plate is 8ft squire and set at 70 yards. Steel plate in the centre which we repaint after each shot. This combination is ideal for my gun set up at the range I shoot at. 7.5s simply have no striking velocity left at that range. 4s with full choke give a good pattern and still hit hard. So you hit and kill or miss. This combination makes close shots difficult. I hope I have helped woodfordpigeon A 28 gram load of 4s pattern at 70 yards is likely to have holes in big enough to fly a airplane through let alone a pigeon , why limit yourself use 42 grams of BB's and shoot them at 100 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kitchrat Posted February 15, 2014 Author Report Share Posted February 15, 2014 Shot size? 6 for the 1st (quarter choke barrel), 5's in the second (half) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Actionpigeons Posted February 15, 2014 Report Share Posted February 15, 2014 (edited) oh god help us! Edited February 15, 2014 by Actionpigeons Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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