shootgun Posted March 17, 2014 Report Share Posted March 17, 2014 If you watch natural bird patterns they will not overfly lifting birds. If you place your flapper,bouncer, angels at the front of the pattern they are unlikely to land but veer off. If you reverse the process and place them at the rear of the pattern they will come close and even land if you let them. The next time you are out try it and see. by rear of the pattern you mean by the side of the V or U shape opening? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ditchman Posted March 17, 2014 Report Share Posted March 17, 2014 If you watch natural bird patterns they will not overfly lifting birds. If you place your flapper,bouncer, angels at the front of the pattern they are unlikely to land but veer off. If you reverse the process and place them at the rear of the pattern they will come close and even land if you let them. The next time you are out try it and see. i like bouncers...but have stopped using them....i place one or two way back from the pattern but found that the the birds used to prefer to drop down near the bouncers and usually out of range...as PC says keep your bouncers away from the pattern..................you have proberly seen from time to time a pricked bird way out in the field before you send the dog ...is often joined by other passing trade in preference to dropping down near the decoys... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TIGHTCHOKE Posted March 17, 2014 Report Share Posted March 17, 2014 i like bouncers...but have stopped using them....i place one or two way back from the pattern but found that the the birds used to prefer to drop down near the bouncers and usually out of range...as PC says keep your bouncers away from the pattern..................you have proberly seen from time to time a pricked bird way out in the field before you send the dog ...is often joined by other passing trade in preference to dropping down near the decoys... You can't beat a nice pair of bouncers! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ditchman Posted March 17, 2014 Report Share Posted March 17, 2014 You can't beat a nice pair of bouncers! Dirty boy............. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TIGHTCHOKE Posted March 17, 2014 Report Share Posted March 17, 2014 Ladies and Gentlemen, it's Harry Hill! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ditchman Posted March 17, 2014 Report Share Posted March 17, 2014 Ladies and Gentlemen, it's Harry Hill! NNNNNNNooooooooooo ! go for the emergency pattern..............."a pricked bird inbetween two loverly bouncers" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hur5ty Posted March 17, 2014 Report Share Posted March 17, 2014 Hi, A couple of things that I find is make sure your decoys are not bunched together to much. 2 or 3 paces apart so if they feel threatened they can fly out the spread without flying over each other. And also once you have your hide built and are ready to shoot just step out your hide and walk 40 or so yards in front of it and check to see what it looks like. Pigeons have long narrow filed of vision on approach meaning they can see very well at long distances so if the hide is not right or they can see you or your chair seat they will veer off long before they are in shooting range, but as they land they switch to a more wide angle field of vision so move at the last minute! Might help might not! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motty Posted March 17, 2014 Report Share Posted March 17, 2014 Hi, A couple of things that I find is make sure your decoys are not bunched together to much. 2 or 3 paces apart so if they feel threatened they can fly out the spread without flying over each other. And also once you have your hide built and are ready to shoot just step out your hide and walk 40 or so yards in front of it and check to see what it looks like. Pigeons have long narrow filed of vision on approach meaning they can see very well at long distances so if the hide is not right or they can see you or your chair seat they will veer off long before they are in shooting range, but as they land they switch to a more wide angle field of vision so move at the last minute! Might help might not! I must disagree with a few things here. I don't think it makes a difference if decoys are bunched together or not. I also do not think pigeons will see a chair as danger. I made the same point about pigeons not being scared of flasks, they can't possibly know what a flask is and would not associate one with danger. If pigeons were bothered by inanimate objects I would pick up every empty case spat out by my semi. Have you been reading John Batley books? I sometimes use floaters close to the pattern and find they work ok. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chesterse Posted March 18, 2014 Report Share Posted March 18, 2014 I think the point about the flask or any other such item is that they would not be frightened by the flask but by any reflection given off it. When faced with a problem like this I have always found that you have to do something different, like removing the bouncer, changing the decoy pattern, from horse shoe to blob type or L shape. One of the decoys could be at an odd angle that they don't like! Could be one of any number of things, so ring the changes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motty Posted March 18, 2014 Report Share Posted March 18, 2014 I think the point about the flask or any other such item is that they would not be frightened by the flask but by any reflection given off it. When faced with a problem like this I have always found that you have to do something different, like removing the bouncer, changing the decoy pattern, from horse shoe to blob type or L shape. One of the decoys could be at an odd angle that they don't like! Could be one of any number of things, so ring the changes. I think this game gets overthought at times. If pigeons want to commit to a pattern, they will, but sometimes they won't, no matter what (as said before). I don't think pigeons look at any decoy enough to be put off by it's angle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cocknee Posted March 18, 2014 Report Share Posted March 18, 2014 John Batley lol maybe its the roof on his hide spooking the pigeons. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tignme Posted March 18, 2014 Report Share Posted March 18, 2014 An article in one of the shooting mags a few yrs ago queried the need for camo nets. One well known shooter set up using bright coloured sewelling. He shot as many birds as usual. around the same time i had set as normal on laid barley, on finishing setup and about to sit down i realised, one heavy rain due,two back at car no camo coat so donned the only coat available a highviz work jacket. I proceded to shoot 82 pigeons through heavy rain and looking like a tub of custard. The difference was i only moved to shoot. Ive setup from back of white transit van parked in lane next to barley stubble and shot 65 birds. During these two incidents no birds flared away. 99 times i would set up as per the book. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JDog Posted March 18, 2014 Report Share Posted March 18, 2014 An interesting post tignme. Five years ago I was asked to shoot a field of laid barley by a friend. The forecast was good and he turned up with minimal attire. It started to rain heavily and all he had was a roadworkers high viz jacket. He was set up on a single electricity pole with a tiny net yet the pigeons decoyed to him as if on wires. As for John Batley's hide with a roof on I cannot imagine when it would ever be beneficial except at times shooting corvids when they were coming over the hide pretty high. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fenboy Posted March 18, 2014 Report Share Posted March 18, 2014 I really believe , very little will put a pigeon off in reality as Motty says chairs / flasks etc are inanimate objects , we do not see pigeon flying around the countryside zig zagging around every item they see . I think the main reason is always going to be movement , its no good popping up like a jack in the box when the bird is 60 yards away , they don't need to be fully committed to the decoys to shoot them , the decoys job is simply to bring the close enough for a shot , no need to wait for them to be touching down ! At the end of the day pigeon are pigeon one day they are spooky , next they might come in as upon rails . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fisherman Mike Posted March 20, 2014 Report Share Posted March 20, 2014 Interesting one this and only something I have ever experienced when using a Magnet or a Flapper. Movement of the decoys whether on the rotary or flapper or bouncer is what attracts the birds into the feeding area in the first place and when they see the pattern they usually float over into the wind before considering alighting. If they veer off then obviously they have perceived something to be not quite right. This could be noise (particularly motor noise) or the synthetic parts of the magnet like the arms or motor body which don’t look right, or movement behind the hide screen or even the static decoys looking not quite right. Also it’s been researched and proven that Pigeons have great aural sense and can hear in frequencies inaudible to humans. They also can detect magnetic field and I would imagine this extends to the magnetic fields produced by electric motors when they are close enough. Some researchers even opine that their olfactory senses is so advanced to enable them to detect unusual smells so perhaps a hot bath before you go out shooting and a rub down with a dead bird.! If there is one thing I have learned in years of bird watching however is that most species of birds the eye sight is 6 – 8 times more acute than in a human so no matter where you are the incoming pigeons will see your movement way before you detect them in the air. This is why it’s imperative to keep still as possible behind the hide and resist popping up every 5 minutes to have a looksee. A lot has been written about decoy patterns, horse shoe, crescent, circle, square etc etc…but in my experience it doesn’t make a jot of difference. More often than not I just do what my Dad and Granddad used to do chuck a dozen decoys up in the air and stake them where they land it looks much more natural. Has anyone ever seen 20 wood pigeons working a rape field ,stubble or seed bed in a horse shoe pattern? … I haven’t in 47 years of shooting As I type this there are 40 odd pigeons feeding on a large piece of sports field ground outside my office window which has just been harrowed and re seeded with grass seed after the floods . The pattern is about 50 m long by 30 m wide about 5 ft. between each bird and they are moving in a very adhoc way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motty Posted March 20, 2014 Report Share Posted March 20, 2014 (edited) Interesting one this and only something I have ever experienced when using a Magnet or a Flapper. Movement of the decoys whether on the rotary or flapper or bouncer is what attracts the birds into the feeding area in the first place and when they see the pattern they usually float over into the wind before considering alighting. If they veer off then obviously they have perceived something to be not quite right. This could be noise (particularly motor noise) or the synthetic parts of the magnet like the arms or motor body which don’t look right, or movement behind the hide screen or even the static decoys looking not quite right. Also it’s been researched and proven that Pigeons have great aural sense and can hear in frequencies inaudible to humans. They also can detect magnetic field and I would imagine this extends to the magnetic fields produced by electric motors when they are close enough. Some researchers even opine that their olfactory senses is so advanced to enable them to detect unusual smells so perhaps a hot bath before you go out shooting and a rub down with a dead bird.! If there is one thing I have learned in years of bird watching however is that most species of birds the eye sight is 6 – 8 times more acute than in a human so no matter where you are the incoming pigeons will see your movement way before you detect them in the air. This is why it’s imperative to keep still as possible behind the hide and resist popping up every 5 minutes to have a looksee. A lot has been written about decoy patterns, horse shoe, crescent, circle, square etc etc…but in my experience it doesn’t make a jot of difference. More often than not I just do what my Dad and Granddad used to do chuck a dozen decoys up in the air and stake them where they land it looks much more natural. Has anyone ever seen 20 wood pigeons working a rape field ,stubble or seed bed in a horse shoe pattern? … I haven’t in 47 years of shooting As I type this there are 40 odd pigeons feeding on a large piece of sports field ground outside my office window which has just been harrowed and re seeded with grass seed after the floods . The pattern is about 50 m long by 30 m wide about 5 ft. between each bird and they are moving in a very adhoc way. I do not believe this to be true. Pigeons may well be able to see better than humans, but I often stand up in the hide and only duck below it when I see pigeons nearing. They don't spot me. I also very often run back into the hide (after retrieving a dead bird, for example) after seeing pigeons approaching. They still come in and get shot. Edited March 20, 2014 by motty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fisherman Mike Posted March 20, 2014 Report Share Posted March 20, 2014 I do not believe this to be true. Pigeons may well be able to see better than humans, but I often stand up in the hide and only duck below it when I see pigeons nearing. They don't spot me. I also very often run back into the hide (after retrieving a dead bird, for example) after seeing pigeons approaching. They still come in and get shot. True enough I've done this myself...but more often than not if they see you from a distance they will either veer off or climb high over the decoys....and you will generally have more success in bringing more birds into shooting range if you keep still and quiet in the hide. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cocknee Posted March 20, 2014 Report Share Posted March 20, 2014 Why would you want them to land anyway they only need to be in range not walking about pecking the ground like chickens. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pigeon controller Posted March 21, 2014 Report Share Posted March 21, 2014 by rear of the pattern you mean by the side of the V or U shape opening? By the rear I mean down wind or if the V is in front of you with the wind off your back , close to the hide so they can land in the pattern if you let them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shootgun Posted March 21, 2014 Report Share Posted March 21, 2014 By the rear I mean down wind or if the V is in front of you with the wind off your back , close to the hide so they can land in the pattern if you let them. Thank you, this make sense. However, today all the pigeons stayed clear of the pattern untill i pulled the floaters out, after that, they start decoying straight into the kill zone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hur5ty Posted March 21, 2014 Report Share Posted March 21, 2014 Reading all these post has probably made you more confused that before you wrote your topic. Pigeons are like children... Every Pigeon acts differently! You never stop learning! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ayano3 Posted March 23, 2014 Report Share Posted March 23, 2014 (edited) I was out yesterday and the bouncer did not work. I was on drilling so just used 12 fuds. I didnt swap these for dead birds as I usually would as the fuds were doing fine. movement could be a reason but historically I have had birds dropping into my decoys as I put them out. Every day is different. Motty, they would be scared of big matts flask with that awful smelling soup he always has 😊 Edited March 23, 2014 by ayano3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dazza9t9 Posted March 25, 2014 Report Share Posted March 25, 2014 I'm getting the same, pigeons veering off last minute or just passing by at a distance. I was going to invest in a magnet or some bouncers. But after reading this thread I may look at increasing my decoy numbers and purchase some more net........ I need to do something as I'm averaging massive bags of 5!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ayano3 Posted March 26, 2014 Report Share Posted March 26, 2014 (edited) There is one thing that everyone has missed. One important thing remember being told is that you have to go to the pigeons and not expect them to come to you. If they are not feeding in the area you are shooting you may get a few but if you set up where they are your chances are far better. I realise this isn't always possible but don't be afraid to set up in the middle of the field especially on rape. Edited March 26, 2014 by ayano3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shootgun Posted March 26, 2014 Report Share Posted March 26, 2014 Good point... and i belive you, as you said it twice Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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