SJL Posted April 20, 2014 Report Share Posted April 20, 2014 Hello all, First post on here! Have looked through previous topics but cant seem to find any answers to my .17HMR questions. I currently have a 16" cz 452 in .22 with sak moderator and a Hawke 3-9x50 mounted on it, fantastic first rifle. The problem with this is the .22 tends to ricochet and this limits where i can shoot due to the land i have access too (On both my farm and the one i work on) because of stony soils and being in the vicinity of houses. I have a .17hmr on my FAC ticket and am getting increasingly tempted to purchase one. Having researched and looked at friends rifles I have decided upon another 16" cz 452 with a sak mod with the optics being my sticking point. I know very little about optics and any advice on suitable scopes would be much appreciated. A few other points - All shooting takes place at night under a lamp - Shoot from either a atv or off the back of a truck - Would IR be needed? - Budget up to £350 but would prefer to not spend all of that if possible. - Undecided whether to trade .22 in or keep it. Also, wooden or synthetic, currently have wooden and am unsure of any pros/cons to synthetic? Many thanks in advance! SJL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
team tractor Posted April 20, 2014 Report Share Posted April 20, 2014 Hmr still ricochet trust me. I had 8 in 100 do it using Remington so switched to hornady and in 500+ rounds never had it since . I know some might not believe but I was shocked. I love the hmr flat shooting but 22 or 17 if it's not safe behind I don't shoot I'd love fac air Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mick miller Posted April 21, 2014 Report Share Posted April 21, 2014 (edited) I specifically sold my 22lr for the same reasons, I could not live with the unreasonably high level of ricochets in and around semi urban areas and close to livestock elsewhere. With the 17hmr I have shot 1000's of rounds of Hornady and can count the ricochets on two fingers. Instead I uprated the rapid to fac for use where noise is an issue, it's a fantastic bunny gun now. As for night vision, I would ask why you think that that is necessary? I shot for years with just a red lamp no problem. Edited April 21, 2014 by mick miller Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fendrover90 Posted April 21, 2014 Report Share Posted April 21, 2014 I specifically sold my 22lr for the same reasons, I could not live with the unreasonably high level of ricochets in and around semi urban areas and close to livestock elsewhere. With the 17hmr I have shot 1000's of rounds of Hornady and can count the ricochets on two fingers. Instead I uprated the rapid to fac for use where noise is an issue, it's a fantastic bunny gun now. As for night vision, I would ask why you think that that is necessary? I shot for years with just a red lamp no problem. think he meant an illuminated reticle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mick miller Posted April 21, 2014 Report Share Posted April 21, 2014 Ah, sorry I missed that. I have illuminated reticles on all my rifle scopes, I also have a box at home full of button cell batteries. Where they stay. Does that answer the question on illuminated reticles? In my very humble opinion, utterly pointless with either a lamp or night vision. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fendrover90 Posted April 21, 2014 Report Share Posted April 21, 2014 Ah, sorry I missed that. I have illuminated reticles on all my rifle scopes, I also have a box at home full of button cell batteries. Where they stay. Does that answer the question on illuminated reticles? In my very humble opinion, utterly pointless with either a lamp or night vision. +1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshwarrior Posted April 21, 2014 Report Share Posted April 21, 2014 Any bullet can ricochet but yes the 22lr seem to like it more than most. Scope buy the best you can I use S&B 6x42 on all my rimfires and most of my other rifles. They are bright and easy to use you don't need loads of magnification it dull the image. I like walnut and don't seem to suffer from the massive variations some seem to in damp etc. if they are well seal I can see a problem on a hunting rifle, target rifle is different. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
telf Posted April 21, 2014 Report Share Posted April 21, 2014 totally agree on illuminated reticles,waste of time,i have had hmrs in the past and sold them both and now have 2 x .22s,but everybody to their own,you say there are houses near by therefore the hmr noise may be an issue as even moderated they are still loud,i personally would think about fac air Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted April 21, 2014 Report Share Posted April 21, 2014 You can manage the ever present risk by using lighter faster rounds but you cannot prevent a ricochet by any other means than not shooting on dangerous ground and not taking any slightly suspect shot. HMR ricochets in some circumstances (vegetation) is can be worse than a .22 LR. One thing I have found is HMR often deflects (ricochets) without any real noise and as it carries twice the energy so it certainly cannot be given any quarter. If the ground is questionable get an FAC airgun with limited power (about 30 ft lb) or use a shotgun As its an important point let me illustate further what I am saying some more with a comparison. I like light fast fragible 55 grn bullets from the .243 win traveling at near enough 4000 fps ricochets are reduced some over some of the heavier tougher constructed vermin bullets traveling a little slower that I also use. It wouldn't bother me in the slightest to switch to a heavier bullet for any shot though because each an every round fired is assessed equally, 1. is there sufficient backstop sufficient in ground type and angle to catch the bullet? 2. is there anything in the backdrop area that might cop for a freaky ricochet if one occurs off the backstop? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Gould Posted April 21, 2014 Report Share Posted April 21, 2014 I use a bushnell legend on my hmr its perfect Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fisheruk Posted April 21, 2014 Report Share Posted April 21, 2014 Have a look at the thread for Redfield Revolution on here currently. I agree with other comments, very little advantage with illuminated recticle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snipers eye Posted April 21, 2014 Report Share Posted April 21, 2014 i have hawke 4-16x50 eclipse with illuminated center dot,only the dot lights up.i use it on the lowest power,line it up with the eye,and bang,dead bunny,hmr are very noisey at night,an ideal night set up for bunnies would be,an air rifle,ns50 night vision,and a bag to carry home all the kills, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bicykillgaz Posted April 21, 2014 Report Share Posted April 21, 2014 (edited) If the grounds that bad I'd look at fac air rifles as others have said, if the chance of ricochet is that bad your still gonna get the odd one with a hmr only trouble is it could potentially go as far or further than a .22. I've owned loads and loads of scopes but never once used the illuminated reticles for hunting on the ones I've had. personally I think there just a gimmick manufacturers stick on to bump the price up, most I've looked through have been too bright to be usable at dusk/dawn and if the reticules too thin to see under the lamp then it's too thin full stop. I should imagine the simple illuminated dot on some of the higher end scopes is probably useful but still not for me. I use a 6x42 meopta on my .22lr, it's the perfect rimfire scope in my opinion so would be great on fac air too. I use to have a 4.5-14x40 Nikon on my .22hornet and when lamping that was kept on 4.5x for shooting and only wound up for identifying. So you don't need mega mag for lamping rabbits just nice clear glass. Edited April 21, 2014 by bicykillgaz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SJL Posted April 21, 2014 Author Report Share Posted April 21, 2014 Thanks for all the quick responses. In regards to the land, it is regularly shot with .17hmrs safely, obviously safety is paramount but fac air is not something that i am too keen to venture into. The illuminated reticle thought only came up when looking at scopes and following your advice, not something i will be buying! What would be the best brand of glass i could get for my price range? The redfield revolution range look good. Would the current Hawke be sufficient quality on a .17? Many thanks for the quick responses! SJL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
telf Posted April 21, 2014 Report Share Posted April 21, 2014 i have had scopes from hawke to zeiss on my hmrs when i had them,have now settled for a mtc genesis on my daytime .22,there may be better scopes out there but i personally think the amd ret on the genesis is spot on for a .22,i would say the hawke is perfectly adaquate for the hmr Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bicykillgaz Posted April 21, 2014 Report Share Posted April 21, 2014 The hawke would be fine but if you've got the money set to one side then you may as well upgrade. Meopta glass is hard to beat for the money and for around £250 you could get a mint secondhand meopta meopro 4-12x50 or even 6-18x50 if fixed mag scopes aren't your thing. You'd be getting a hell of a lot of scope for your money too, if they was made in Germany or Austria you'd pay twice as much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Callahan Posted April 21, 2014 Report Share Posted April 21, 2014 Iv had my CZ452 HMR for 8 years and seriously love the rifle, and the round. For the first 7years it had a 3-9x40 Bushnell scope. Brilliant scope and am seriously tempted to go back to it in all honesty. 'Upgraded' to a 6-24x50 IR Hawke which is a very nice scope indeed and i do get on much better pelting crows with it - but i really do miss the no-frills Bushnell for lamping rabbits..... No matter what women say - bigger most certainly isnt always better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mick miller Posted April 22, 2014 Report Share Posted April 22, 2014 i have had scopes from hawke to zeiss on my hmrs when i had them,have now settled for a mtc genesis on my daytime .22,there may be better scopes out there but i personally think the amd ret on the genesis is spot on for a .22,i would say the hawke is perfectly adaquate for the hmr I have three of these, perfectly adequate mid range scope and good with digital add ons. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dougy Posted April 22, 2014 Report Share Posted April 22, 2014 If your interested i have a Simmons Atec 4-12x44 illuminated (need to check when i get home re mag) it came off my Ruger77/17 HMR never any problems yours for £50 posted Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matone Posted April 22, 2014 Report Share Posted April 22, 2014 Ah, sorry I missed that. I have illuminated reticles on all my rifle scopes, I also have a box at home full of button cell batteries. Where they stay. Does that answer the question on illuminated reticles? In my very humble opinion, utterly pointless with either a lamp or night vision. Very true ! Buy the best non-gimmick scope that you can afford,quality will be appreciated long after the cost is forgotten. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted April 22, 2014 Report Share Posted April 22, 2014 If your stuck on what scope to buy for any calibre of hunting rifle from 22 lr to .375 H&H put a basic but highest quality 3-9x40 you can afford on it. illuminated reticules etc I have found no great use in the field but you can have too fine a reticule for use at low light. two classes of scope Target / varmint higher mag with a low of 6 or 8 power, parallax adjustable, finer reticule, dialable with marked turrets hunting / lamping lower mag (or fixed) with a lower base level 3 or 6, fixed parallax , thicker reticule, no twiddly bits HMR could fit in either of these categories, though I suggest once your into dialing and paralaxing you have exceeded the true worth of the round Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeadWasp Posted April 22, 2014 Report Share Posted April 22, 2014 (edited) Nikon Monarch 3 spec of 2.5 to 10 x 50 comes in a sub £400. Good light gathering and well made. No parallax adjustment but then it isn't high mag nor are we talking about long range or vastly different ranges of shooting. Mine lives on x 8. Edited April 22, 2014 by LeadWasp Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bullet boy Posted April 22, 2014 Report Share Posted April 22, 2014 I have a S&B 8x56 Klassik on my HMR and I love this scope! Any decent priced scope is good enough for an HMR IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffo223 Posted April 22, 2014 Report Share Posted April 22, 2014 I did have a docter optics 3-12x56 which was fantastic but didn't have the ability to dial my shot's long range on my 17hmr. I have now got a sightron STAC 2.5-17x56 with illuminated centre dot. The centre dot works very well with my night vision, helps a lot with bunny's in the bottom of headge rows. Fantastic scope the sightron HIGHLY RECOMMENDED, also got a s3 on my 223 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deiseboy Posted April 22, 2014 Report Share Posted April 22, 2014 Ive a nikko sterling nighteater 30mm 4-16x50 and theres never been a shot I couldn't take with the hmr on it. Can make out animals at over 4-500 yards under the lamp so its suited well over the range of the hmr. about £150 for the non illum version. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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