kent Posted April 30, 2014 Report Share Posted April 30, 2014 BASC will do everything within its power to promote and protect the sport of wildfowling. It will encourage and facilitate entry to the sport, support and extend the club structure and represent the sport at all levels. BASC will furthermore oppose at all levels any restriction being placed upon wildfowling that is not, in the opinion of both the Council and its Wildfowling Liaison Committee, capable of being shown by clear evidence to be necessary for the future of wildfowling in the UK and the wildfowl and wildlife habitat on which wildfowling depends. Graylag Canada's and mallard last time I looked we're wildfowl and I would say we're necessary for the future of wildfowling in the uk There might even be some legal footing for the above let alone the moral one, I have someone about to look into it. Though I feel BASC can fix this before it becomes too late, we don't need to fight among ourselves the fight is elsewere Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Penelope Posted April 30, 2014 Report Share Posted April 30, 2014 Potentially 16 of us Kent. Its not too hard to get a special licence and its localised in its assessment of need, scaring works prior. Clanger? you want to be a fly on the wall at some AGMs clubs are talking leaving as an individual member frankly I should its a no brainer and I joined at about 13 yrs old ! This should have been consulted and if no turnaround things will go clang its just a case of how loudYou see, how many will disaprear- these are core members, come on guys we need you and its not going to be easy finding work round Marford Mill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nic Posted April 30, 2014 Report Share Posted April 30, 2014 I dont agree with the placing of greys onto the general licence, I prefer the specific licence for a local specific problem. However I have to stand up slightly for BASC. They have 130 odd thousand members.... said earlier on here, 7000 are wildfowlers. As an organisation, they have to represent all of there members so if it went to a vote, the 120 odd thousand who shoot pheasant, pigeon, rabbit etc etc may well agree with the decision. We lost our own organisation with the demise of WAGBI. Possibly making it the responsibility of the landowner having to show that all other methods of dealing with the 'problem' before allowing shooting out of season ( and doing some enforcement of it) would stop the irresponsible getting permissions. As to leaving BASC, are any of the other organisations doing anything to stop them going on general licence? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David BASC Posted April 30, 2014 Report Share Posted April 30, 2014 Firstly, let me be very clear indeed, BASC does not believe that greylag geese or mallard should be viewed as pests. These proposals are not about reducing the population, but about farmers being able to respond quickly to prevent serious problems occurring to crops. Of course farmers will have an array of crop protection techniques available which they may choose to use first, but if that fails does anyone here honestly think is right that the farmer then has to apply for a licence and wait many days for it to arrive, while his crops are being damaged? Please remember that the farmers will need to control feral geese during the main growing season, the migratory birds will not be impacted, and a key caveat to our response is that breeding populations must continue to be monitored. So the migratory population that is so vital to wildfowlers will not be effected and inland the farmers who’s land is so vital for shooting and conservation will have less hurdles to jump over to protect their crops. David Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Penelope Posted April 30, 2014 Report Share Posted April 30, 2014 David, a lot of us don't have the luxury of a migratory population and rely on sedentary greylag/canada populations. Firstly, let me be very clear indeed, BASC does not believe that greylag geese or mallard should be viewed as pests. These proposals are not about reducing the population, but about farmers being able to respond quickly to prevent serious problems occurring to crops. Of course farmers will have an array of crop protection techniques available which they may choose to use first, but if that fails does anyone here honestly think is right that the farmer then has to apply for a licence and wait many days for it to arrive, while his crops are being damaged? Please remember that the farmers will need to control feral geese during the main growing season, the migratory birds will not be impacted, and a key caveat to our response is that breeding populations must continue to be monitored. So the migratory population that is so vital to wildfowlers will not be effected and inland the farmers who’s land is so vital for shooting and conservation will have less hurdles to jump over to protect their crops. David Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
holloway Posted April 30, 2014 Report Share Posted April 30, 2014 I dont agree with the placing of greys onto the general licence, I prefer the specific licence for a local specific problem. However I have to stand up slightly for BASC. They have 130 odd thousand members.... said earlier on here, 7000 are wildfowlers. As an organisation, they have to represent all of there members so if it went to a vote, the 120 odd thousand who shoot pheasant, pigeon, rabbit etc etc may well agree with the decision. We lost our own organisation with the demise of WAGBI. Possibly making it the responsibility of the landowner having to show that all other methods of dealing with the 'problem' before allowing shooting out of season ( and doing some enforcement of it) would stop the irresponsible getting permissions. As to leaving BASC, are any of the other organisations doing anything to stop them going on general licence? The trouble with that nic(and it would certainly help) is that you would have to apply it to other forms of pest control and whilst natural England has proposed this BASC has rightly not supported it. If they did support it there would be widespread outrage.I have been a member of BASC man and boy and would hate to leave but they are coming over as arrogant and disconnected .I see many BASC officers lurking on this forum but no answers or input what does that show you?> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
islandgun Posted April 30, 2014 Report Share Posted April 30, 2014 David, a lot of us don't have the luxury of a migratory population and rely on sedentary greylag/canada populations. Absolutely ! instead of a GL would it not be possible for farmers that are prone to goose damage to be able to access a licence prior to damage (in case licence) , to describe Greylags as vermin which is the case by putting them on GL is disgraceful. Why bother having closed seasons for any spp, ? BASC Shooting and conservation?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David BASC Posted April 30, 2014 Report Share Posted April 30, 2014 If Greylag or Canada geese are not causing a crop problem in your area, then the farmers will not want or need to see them shot outside of the wildfowling season, and clubs or syndicates such as yours who have the shooting rights over that farmland will not allow it. So let’s have all shooters, inland and coastal, working together with the farmers and landowners. David Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
islandgun Posted April 30, 2014 Report Share Posted April 30, 2014 As a crofter/ farmer I would not condone the shooting of Greylag geese out of season, my personal opinion is that it is distasteful to kill an animal when it has dependent young, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
birdsallpl Posted April 30, 2014 Report Share Posted April 30, 2014 If Greylag or Canada geese are not causing a crop problem in your area, then the farmers will not want or need to see them shot outside of the wildfowling season, and clubs or syndicates such as yours who have the shooting rights over that farmland will not allow it. So let’s have all shooters, inland and coastal, working together with the farmers and landowners. David Hear, hear. As I have said before, the responsible shooting fraternity must take care of it ourselves. We are the guys that need to help and use the controls available. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David BASC Posted April 30, 2014 Report Share Posted April 30, 2014 Exactly, islandgun and I would assume that other farmers like you would not allow anyone onto their land to shoot geese even if they were on the GL if they were not causing any damage to crops- after all why would they? So it’s simple, responsible shooters need to make sure they keep well on side with their farmers / landowners, just like the vast majority already do. Farmers who have crop or livestock protection issues will then turn to those responsible shooters who already have access to their land and ask them for help, this will help the farmer and of course help the shoot / shooters cement their relationship, and shooting opportunity, with the farmers. David Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
islandgun Posted April 30, 2014 Report Share Posted April 30, 2014 Unfortunately there are many farmers throughout Britain who don't give two hoots about geese and would allow whoever with whatever to harass the geese whenever they can, under a GL this will be all year, my view is that we do not need a GL for Greylag and I fail to see why BASC are backing it, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edenman Posted April 30, 2014 Report Share Posted April 30, 2014 I personally think basc would've been better advised to campaign to have special license easier and quicker to obtain, then there would've been no need for general license for greylags. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David BASC Posted April 30, 2014 Report Share Posted April 30, 2014 So lets work together to identify the farms where the farmer thinks they have a problem with geese, and let responsible shooters take on the shooting rights... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Penelope Posted April 30, 2014 Report Share Posted April 30, 2014 David, a choice of colours to clutch at. So lets work together to identify the farms where the farmer thinks they have a problem with geese, and let responsible shooters take on the shooting rights... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David BASC Posted April 30, 2014 Report Share Posted April 30, 2014 (edited) Fail to see you point, please explain how my reply is in any way grasping at straws? Edited April 30, 2014 by David BASC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Penelope Posted April 30, 2014 Report Share Posted April 30, 2014 This - 'So lets work together to identify the farms where the farmer thinks they have a problem with geese, and let responsible shooters take on the shooting rights'. I have always been generally supportive of BASC, but feel they have dropped the ball on this one IMO. Fail to see you point, please explain how my reply is in any way grasping at straws? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
islandgun Posted April 30, 2014 Report Share Posted April 30, 2014 So lets work together to identify the farms where the farmer thinks they have a problem with geese, and let responsible shooters take on the shooting rights... and you would implement this how ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David BASC Posted April 30, 2014 Report Share Posted April 30, 2014 So what's wrong with that statement? Some have expressed concerns that some landowners may allow any Tom Richard and Harriet to shoot geese, so what's wrong with identifying these farms and working with the farmers so a responsible club or group of shooters take on the shooting rights? How would it be implemented? Well I suspect clubs and syndicates know who owns and or farm land that boarder them...go knock on the door and chat with the farmer.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motty Posted April 30, 2014 Report Share Posted April 30, 2014 David BASC, do you not get it? The point is, many thousands of greylags will now get shot throughout the country, people being able to use the excuse that these geese are doing damage. I have already mentioned (different thread) that I shoot on a farm with several hundred greylags resident. The farmer will not let me shoot just one in season because they do him no harm. He grows around 1000 acres of cereals. Anywhere that a farmer has a big problem with geese should have a different kind of special license to deal with these geese as and when. My guess is that only a few percent of greylags in this country are doing any real damage, but i'd wager that the unnecessary cull on these birds would be majorly disproportionate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artschool Posted April 30, 2014 Report Share Posted April 30, 2014 David BASC, do you not get it? The point is, many thousands of greylags will now get shot throughout the country, people being able to use the excuse that these geese are doing damage. I have already mentioned (different thread) that I shoot on a farm with several hundred greylags resident. The farmer will not let me shoot just one in season because they do him no harm. He grows around 1000 acres of cereals. Anywhere that a farmer has a big problem with geese should have a different kind of special license to deal with these geese as and when. My guess is that only a few percent of greylags in this country are doing any real damage, but i'd wager that the unnecessary cull on these birds would be majorly disproportionate. that is just one example. i have one farmer who likes foxes and doesn't want them shot on his land. the farmer nearby who's land i also shoot on wants the foxes removed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
islandgun Posted April 30, 2014 Report Share Posted April 30, 2014 So what's wrong with that statement? Some have expressed concerns that some landowners may allow and Tom Richard and Harriet to shoot geese, so what's wrong with identifying these farms and working with the farmers so a responsible club or group of shooters take on the shooting rights? How would it be implemented? Well I suspect clubs and syndicates know who owns and or farm land that boarder them...go knock on the door and chat with the farmer.... Ok then why do we need a GL ? this could easily be arranged using a normal licence, A farmer knows what crops were damaged in the past let him apply early, after drilling perhaps, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scolopax Posted April 30, 2014 Author Report Share Posted April 30, 2014 BASC are in a very difficult position because of work they have to do keeping the woodpigeon on the GL. Any stance to the contrary on the inclusion of greylag geese on the same basis would scream of hypocrisy and be utilised by shooting many enemies. That is how I see it. What we need to do is find some ground between a rock and a hard place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David BASC Posted April 30, 2014 Report Share Posted April 30, 2014 How are people going to abuse the general licence if the landowners won’t let them? Motty, you gave a perfect example; the farmer in your case does not have a problem, so no one is going to shoot the geese on his land. Where has the figure of ‘many thousands’ come from? If a farmer has a problem he should be allowed to control them without having to go through red tape and delay. Back to my point, its a mater of shooters working with their landowners. David Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scolopax Posted April 30, 2014 Author Report Share Posted April 30, 2014 David, BASC is not there to look after the perceived interests of farmers, they can look after themselves well enough. BASC is there to support shooting and shooters, any diminution of the quarry available does not do that. Something to shoot, somewhere to shoot and something to shoot with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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