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SGC and Child Application - Advice Reqd


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I have made an application for my young sons SGC in Kent. He is 11 in Sept. He is a member of both the BASC and CPSA. He currently has 2 x weekly lessons and is improving. Saturday he missed 8 of 25 (in poor weather) and 5/7 rabbits.

I think the tuition is really paying off.

I have applied for him to attend Young shot days during school holidays and his regular club sessions which will increase in frequency during the school holidays. I (the SGC holder) cannot get him to every meet and venue and have applied for his SGC so that a responsible adult over 21, can supervise and transport both him and gun to venue.

He has covered gun safety at his local shoot and both coaches have told me that he is mature, follows instruction and is a sensible and methodical lad. I did look at getting mum an SGC but my wife works shifts therefore it will be a mixture of mum, grandad and elder sister or her fiancee when I cant. All responsible and over 21 criteria met.

My question is: Am I right in thinking that despite having an SGC he will not own a gun therefore "his" 20g will remain on my licence? How would that work with regards to shared gun/cabinet etc?

In that case, will I need a seperate cabinet that will house the 20g that he will have access to under adult supervision for getting out of cabinet, securing in slip and travelling to venues?

Then if he is supervised, someone would see where his keys are kept and therefore unlawful posession of a firearm with regards to the adult?

 

I cant let my wife know cabinet key location to unlock or prepare shot gun for travelling as it will be unlawful possession of a firearm.

 

I have submitted forms and have had a teacher sign the reference form. I have been told that Kent firearms team will write to school for reference but I think they have an anti shooting/hunting stance. I have requested a character reference and not personal opinion from them. They have said they will wait for a request from FEO.

 

I am unsure whether my son will receive one as I have been led to believe the county may be reluctant to issue due to age? Apparently onlyba couple have been issued previously to children of that age.

 

I may be over thinking this but I need to be clear on the best way forward for how he will have access and transport before we have a visit in the near future.

 

Any advice gratefully appreciated!

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What you really need is this :

 

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/262215/Guidance_on_Firearms_Licensing_Law_v6_Nov_2013.pdf

 

Page 51. Then, as he is a member of BASC and CPSA, I'd suggest you contact them for advice. They will know the intricacies of the law far better than most of us on here.

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Hi, I'm 17 now and got my license when I was 11 after quite a long battle. My dad already had his licenencse and so I was applying for mine for much the same reason you are for your son. I was enabled acess to share the gun cabinate and have a set of my own keys and from what i can gather you can sign a gun over to your son when he is 14, someone may correct me on that.

Back to the battle of gaining my license, the feo wanted a saris factory report from my school to say that I was well behaved ect.. So we sent a previous school annual school report in with my application which he feo didn't approve of because it wasn't recent, we then had a phone call from police saying they will contact theschool then around six weeks later he school rang to say they don't support shooting and are not willing to offer he report the police want, so my dad went in and said hey support football and a multitude of other sports and all we need is a report signed to say I'm well behaved, this didn't get any where so he spoke to the head master and after quite some time he agreed and appologized, then when the repor was sent by the school it went to the wrong place be cause it wasn't adreesed to the fire arms part. So after another we had interview and the feo apologised for inconvenience, in all it took 8 months. When it does get sent to your son his licence it will have a cover letter and theyl probably send you one too explaining the need for safe use and security espeslecialy in the hands of young people, that's my experience of gaining a licence at age 11 but that where a few years ago, maybee things have improved, if you have any questions about getting his license granted pm me, but I'm not to shore on the bit about being transported with a gun as we told them I was always going out with my dad who already had a licence. Good look.

Cheers Kyle

Edited by Shooting2
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Hi, I'm 17 now and got my license when I was 11 after quite a long battle. My dad already had his licenencse and so I was applying for mine for much the same reason you are for your son. I was enabled acess to share the gun cabinate and have a set of my own keys and from what i can gather you can sign a gun over to your son when he is 14, someone may correct me on that.

 

I may be mistaken, but from reading the law ...

It is a criminal offence if a person under 15 has independent access to a shotgun or ammunition by way of having their own keys.

A shotgun can be signed over on the 15th birthday. Giving or selling a shotgun or ammunition to a person under 15 is a criminal offence.

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Wasn't shore if it where 14 or 15 man thanks for that& I allways had keys to the cabinate, not that it maters now cos I'm 17 but when we had interview they said all was fine. That was only my experience of what the op might have found useful to know.

 

It wouldn't surprise me in the slightest if the police had no idea of what the law says.

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My son was 15 when he got his sgc, he had his own license,his own key for the now shared cabinet,his lanber 12g and all my guns on it too. He could take his lanber out by himself down the garden into the field (perm of course) and shoot geese/ducks/rabbits no problem,happy boy. BUT here's the CRAZY bit... if I had my 12flb springer air rifle in the cabinet I'd be breaking the law because he'd have access to it and he's under 18 !!!!! you've got to love the law makers.

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Whybro,

 

I have been through this with my own son last year(14 at the time)with Kent police,yes went through the whole process with School references and the experience of the young gun days he had taken part in and his CCF training all helped, FEO interviewed my son as normal,no problems although the issuing of the licence did take quite awhile 6 months from start to finish.

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  • 1 month later...

The certificate has arrived after many problems.

First off, the school gave me a character reference after I was advised by BASC and CPSA that no contact should be made to school because employers are not contacted so why schools. Therefore it was my belief that I had eradicated any need for approach and when I forwarded the character reference from the headmistress I stated that their was no need to approach the school and that I was fearful of any anti gun opinions affecting me sons standing in the school.

My son then had the interview and the reference was on file. The FEO was happy with my son and stated that he was knowledgeable on gun safety, far more than many adults (I daresay including me!)

 

We then played the waiting game (as far as I was aware)unil the headmistress was approached for a reference. Sge stated she had furnished me with one and I called licensing dept and informed them not to approach school. One week later FEO telephones school, headmistress informz me that she has neither the time not inclination to complete another reference and that nothing would change between the reference given to me and any the licensing dept would request.

I call the BASC, who in turn call the firearms licensing manager and point out that this is not law and that no further approach should be made to the school.

That the interview according to my knowledge was approved and why is contact being made. I was ingormed that the licensing manager would recall the file and base any decision upon the character reference supplied. BASC stated that there was nothing within the content of reference that would cause doubt or suspicion and that it is in fact a wonderful reference.

I assured the headmistress that no further approach would be made. She was of the opinion that the FEO wanted her to make the decision of whether my son should be granted an SGC and she said that she was their to educate him and not provide any opinion outside of her duties and she was not prepared to give her opinion.

Then a week later a further approach was made!

I contacted the licensing dept and they again stated that they would tell the FEO not to pursue a reference and return the file for them to view and decide.

I then received the SGC with a covering letter that states that they did not mean to undermine the reference supplied by me from the school (on headed paper) and that the FEO had made contact after the headmistress stated that she felt that no child of 10 should have any access to firearms and he had made contact to take the time to explain to her legislation and restrictions placed upon young people.

It also states that this contact was not intended to undermine your submission.

 

My feelings are that a party is blatantly lying to me and I dont know the best way to approach the matter.

Do I listen to my wife who says our son has the cert so dont worry about it, therefore spend the energy into more shooting or do I make a fuss about this?

If I do and the licensing dept are misleading me then I could make my future years difficult with FEO and team etc.

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My experience as both an individual and as a previous HOA firearms club secretary has led me to the conclusion that the Police Firearms departments, ‘make it up as they go along’ in as much they often go about their duties in a manner of how they would wish things to be and not how the law determines that that should. Until the error of their ways is pointed out to them of course and then only by a body of some significance, BASC, etc.!

 

This often takes a while to sink in but eventually things seem to get sorted out how they should have been in the first place, totally infuriating and inconvenient for the individual concerned. I believe the M.O. is designed to test your resolve and often does to the limit!!

 

Unless you feel that there is some personal advantage to be gained by pursuing a compliant then I would tend to put it down to experience and let it go as your wife suggests.

 

However as a Pigeon Watch member you now have the personal experience to advise others of the pitfalls they may encounter, because the police firearms department most certainly won’t!!

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Thanks Stotto,

 

As always the good lady wife is right. I need to just let it go. It is frustrating though but you are right I can forewarn others in future years.

 

I have just applied for my EFP for a trip to MSZU in Stuttgarte and would prefer not to have a delay because I am making life difficult for myself in complaining etc.

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As an aside, it may be worth mentioning that there is a GCSE available in clay pigeon shooting and as this would appear to be part of the official educational curriculum it would therefore seem incredulous to me that any head teacher would refuse to endorse a suitably proven prospective candidate. See page 70 of included link.

 

http://www.edexcel.com/migrationdocuments/GCSE%20New%20GCSE/UG028981-Edexcel-GCSE-in-PE-Controlled-Assment-Gd-Iss2-211211.pdf

 

It might also with hindsight, be a good idea to put down on paper how you might have gone about things knowing what you know now to the benefit of others in the future!!

 

Regards

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My son got his SGC age 12. He does not have access to any guns locked up in the home and won't until it is lawful for him to have such access.

 

A&S Police approached the school & received glowing report. I was happy for them to do so.

 

There are certain other kids at the school who I would hope would not get SGC. The school knows them well enough to report on their behaviour at school.

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My grandson was fifteen when he got his sic we were advised by fao that was the best age as under that he could not really do anything other than admire the picture of himself.at fifteen his certificate came through no problem he has his own cabinet with two guns gifted to him by myself.he can go and shoot alone on our land and he will be an adult before it needs to be renewed.i would not say do not get a certificate at a younger age but as they are very limited as to what they can actually do with one I feel it somewhat a waste.but each to their own.atb

Edited by bostonmick
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If you ruffle feathers......be prepared to left spitting them :unsure:

 

Daft at best....

 

 

You are well within your your rights to write to the force and explain how you feel the application was badly handled (PCC and CC) at the end of the day the FEO may or may not have been told not to pursue the reference with the school. Only they will ever know. check the force complaints procedure.Always follow procedure that way they cannot take any personal feelings into account. Stay factual do it in writing (email if you have to). BASC may follow up, they know the problem forces and probably FEO's by name, the law is clear and so is the guidance no ones opinion really matters (teacher etc) apart from the FLM who issues the certs on behalf of the CC.

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