HDAV Posted May 20, 2014 Report Share Posted May 20, 2014 And APSI, Guide of shooting instructors, charter institute Guild? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-Mongrel- Posted May 20, 2014 Report Share Posted May 20, 2014 It might be overkill but when I went on an experience day the female instructor carried in a slip from stand to stand but what she did do was open the barrels, put it in the slip barrel first and then closed the shotgun up. Then when she got it out broke the barrels before removing it from the slip. Suppose this way its always an open gun until the very last minute. Yup, also the way I've been schooled to shoot at clay grounds. The barrels remain pointed at the ground and the gun broken until they are lifted over the safety bar in the front of the cage. Only then, when ready to shoot is it loaded and the barrels closed. As for a slip, I also use one at every stand and the gun remains in it at all times unless I'm shooting. I don't wear the 'it takes too long to keep slipping/unslipping the gun' argument. If you are organised, then you are walking into the stand having just unslipped the gun as the preceding shooter is walking out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshwarrior Posted May 20, 2014 Report Share Posted May 20, 2014 Guild? Well spotted Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pontbeck Posted May 20, 2014 Report Share Posted May 20, 2014 Indisputable , the owner needs to show to others that the gun is empty and safe, and that's the way to do it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westley Posted May 20, 2014 Report Share Posted May 20, 2014 I carry mine under my arm (broke open) all the time when I'm at a shooting ground regardless if its a comp or not. Knowing your guns, how would you feel if a piece of falling clay managed to dent your nice stock then ?? Saw it occur only a few weeks ago ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westley Posted May 20, 2014 Report Share Posted May 20, 2014 Personally I carry mine broken over my arm. I find it extra hassle to keep taking it in and out. I hope you never suffer from a weak bladder then ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will Poon Posted May 20, 2014 Report Share Posted May 20, 2014 I see your point, if I wanted a cabinet queen I'd bought a purdy, my perazzis are my weapons of mass clay destruction and they have dings and dents on the stock from wear and tear that will make them unique to me, and not to be wrapped up in cotton wool. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Livefast123 Posted May 20, 2014 Report Share Posted May 20, 2014 I've got better things to be doing at the clay ground than slipping it in and out, broken and over the arm does it for me. Luckily I don't have to worry about a errant clay strike devaluing my gun any further! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingo15 Posted May 21, 2014 Report Share Posted May 21, 2014 I guess not many of you dont use a gun rack either at a stand then? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hamster Posted May 21, 2014 Report Share Posted May 21, 2014 Indisputable , the owner needs to show to others that the gun is empty and safe, and that's the way to do it Logically then broken and out of the slip is the only way that can be achieved ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HDAV Posted May 21, 2014 Report Share Posted May 21, 2014 I guess not many of you dont use a gun rack either at a stand then? I do sometimes but there is a risk of them falling out or over......... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hamster Posted May 21, 2014 Report Share Posted May 21, 2014 I do sometimes but there is a risk of them falling out or over......... They're also almost always designed to accept closed guns ! Just being uber safety conscious, if you don't KNOW a gun is empty and have to break it while it is still inside the case, then how do you KNOW a gun is empty in a rack ? On a slightly different tack, who designed the racks at Southdown ? They have a solid wood bar across the barrel ends meaning you need to swing the gun under and into the thing, hence they're always empty !! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshwarrior Posted May 21, 2014 Report Share Posted May 21, 2014 (edited) When you lift the gun out of the rack the barrels are still face up and in a safe direction the gun is then opened and cartridges would fall out under gravity, the barrels are then rotated through a safe direction and the chamber check to insure they are empty the gun is then placed over the arm. The reverse is how you placed it there or should be. Any closed gun should be treated as loaded. Edited May 21, 2014 by welshwarrior Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hamster Posted May 21, 2014 Report Share Posted May 21, 2014 When you lift the gun out of the rack the barrels are still face up and in a safe direction the gun is then opened and cartridges would fall out under gravity, the barrels are then rotated through a safe direction and the chamber check to insure they are empty the gun is then placed over the arm. The reverse is how you placed it there or should be. Any closed gun should be treated as loaded. I can accept that - it is perfectly true that if you follow the routine as you suggest then even if there were shells in the chamber then no accident is likely to occur. When I remove my gun from its slip it is always in a safe direction too, it is never lifted in line with shooters standing around and therefore in the second or so it takes for me to then break it there is no chance of any accidents !!!! A question for everyone : You shoot, eject the shells, walk out of the stand, glance at the empty chambers, close the gun, place in slip or gun rack. Is the gun empty or not ? To suggest there is no such thing as an empty gun means you're incapable of trusting yourself with your own gun and gun handling. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mentalmac Posted May 21, 2014 Report Share Posted May 21, 2014 I can accept that - it is perfectly true that if you follow the routine as you suggest then even if there were shells in the chamber then no accident is likely to occur. When I remove my gun from its slip it is always in a safe direction too, it is never lifted in line with shooters standing around and therefore in the second or so it takes for me to then break it there is no chance of any accidents !!!! A question for everyone : You shoot, eject the shells, walk out of the stand, glance at the empty chambers, close the gun, place in slip or gun rack. Is the gun empty or not ? To suggest there is no such thing as an empty gun means you're incapable of trusting yourself with your own gun and gun handling. Think it's more along the lines of others trust in you rather than you trusting yourself. Would you perhaps let a stranger point a gun at you even if he had promised it was empty? I certainly wouldn't as unfortunately with all humans, there is always room for error. (I know you don't point guns at people as you said earlier by the way, just stating the hypothetical :-)). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glb8686 Posted May 21, 2014 Report Share Posted May 21, 2014 When using a rack how does everyone leave the gun. Open or closed? I always leave mine open in the rack but I don't see many bothering. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HDAV Posted May 21, 2014 Report Share Posted May 21, 2014 The point is not trust it is that if the process is followed by everyone at every occasion then there would be no negligent discharges ..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingo15 Posted May 21, 2014 Report Share Posted May 21, 2014 Mine is closed but as shown to me by my shooting instructor so the the barrels are fully open tipped upside down so should there be any cartridges in the barrels they would fall out. Which had me thinking if someone did leave cartridges in there if they did fall out and hit a corner of a stone on the primer would they go off?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshwarrior Posted May 21, 2014 Report Share Posted May 21, 2014 I trust my gun handling but I don't trust the bloke I don't know, I spend a fair amount of time every day with a closed gun pointing at my face whilst gun fitting (CPSA 10 safety points the only time it's acceptable) I'm sorry I trust no one and check myself first before every time, even if it was checked 10 a before I check again. If the client is "special" and has put a cartridge in the gun it won't hurt him but good night for me, a snapped firing pin would be bad enough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mentalmac Posted May 21, 2014 Report Share Posted May 21, 2014 I trust my gun handling but I don't trust the bloke I don't know, I spend a fair amount of time every day with a closed gun pointing at my face whilst gun fitting (CPSA 10 safety points the only time it's acceptable) I'm sorry I trust no one and check myself first before every time, even if it was checked 10 a before I check again. If the client is "special" and has put a cartridge in the gun it won't hurt him but good night for me, a snapped firing pin would be bad enough. Exactly as I mentioned a few posts a go,all it takes is a small mistake and it's good night with a 12gauge in your face. You even see soldiers proving guns clear before handing over at the barracks by me. My friend says a chap he was on guard with didn't bother and used to just pass people guns when swapping guard and got caught out and royally lambasted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshwarrior Posted May 21, 2014 Report Share Posted May 21, 2014 You even see soldiers proving guns clear before handing over at the barracks by me. My friend says a chap he was on guard with didn't bother and used to just pass people guns when swapping guard and got caught out and royally lambasted. Rightly so good gun handling is not a accident, we where sat in Helmand having a Chinese parliament all of us placed our rifles behind as we'd always done facing into a compound wall. 20 mins in bang no one was near the rifle some had broken. Muzzle awareness is vital with any gun, the comes with concentration and practise whatever happens DO NOT allow over familiarly bred complacency! Sorry for the sermon it close to my heart Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunkield Posted May 21, 2014 Report Share Posted May 21, 2014 Hit and run post, the OP was never seen again... Although covered, and gun in a slip is no more safe than one out. Many by now will have heard the legendary story of the rifle having an ND in a slip inside a hunting lodge A bit of lambswool and canvas isn't going to stop much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mentalmac Posted May 21, 2014 Report Share Posted May 21, 2014 Rightly so good gun handling is not a accident, we where sat in Helmand having a Chinese parliament all of us placed our rifles behind as we'd always done facing into a compound wall. 20 mins in bang no one was near the rifle some had broken. Muzzle awareness is vital with any gun, the comes with concentration and practise whatever happens DO NOT allow over familiarly bred complacency! Sorry for the sermon it close to my heart Rightly so Welshwarrior - in fact I was watching 'gun fails' on youtube and some made me laugh (i.e American girls shooting handguns and being pistol whipped) but there was a LOT of videos of lads sat on webcam and shotguns falling over and going off. Scary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westley Posted May 21, 2014 Report Share Posted May 21, 2014 Mine is closed but as shown to me by my shooting instructor so the the barrels are fully open tipped upside down so should there be any cartridges in the barrels they would fall out. Which had me thinking if someone did leave cartridges in there if they did fall out and hit a corner of a stone on the primer would they go off?? NO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kes Posted May 21, 2014 Report Share Posted May 21, 2014 I was always taught to carry the gun open when finished shooting a stand or between pegs, slip the gun; showing barrels empty on entry and exit (never removing or placing gun in slip closed but opening the action as it emerges from the slip and as it enters). I use racks and assume they are placed to allow any shot to go almost vertically up and away from bystanders but use the same procedure as with a slip - open on removal (careful where barrels pointing - upwards best) and open and close before placing in rack. The maxim quoted incorrectly above is treat every gun as loaded unless you have unloaded it that moment yourself - but check it anyway. In addition, never, never let your gun pointed be at anyone. When a youngster, I took my single barrel Argyle out of the cupboard and was handing it to a friend to look at it and, because safety was drummed in, I checked by opening it - out fell a live no5. I still dont know how it got there. My dad used to quote a moment in the army when trying peoples pistols. He was trying a captured Luger and pulled the gun away as someone came in the room - they were dry firing but the chap who 'captured' it had forgotten the one up the spout and Dad hadnt checked - it put a neat hole 2 feet away in the wall from the guy standing in front. Ever since then he enforced safety for others but reckoned he was bomb proof. How times change - thankfully, in that respect Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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