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lee rigby


neillfrbs
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Hog wash just because you wore a uniform does not make you a hero,and it is tiring to hear it thrown out time and time again.

you tell that to the family of all the soldiers that never came home or the ones that came home with arms and legs missing

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you tell that to the family of all the soldiers that never came home or the ones that came home with arms and legs missing

Again just wearing a uniform does not make you a hero,let me give you the definition,

 

a person, typically a man, who is admired or idealized for courage, outstanding achievements, or noble qualities.

 

​And while i agree with you that the military personnel who die,are injured or are involved in fire fights should have that term used to show the respect people have for them,not everyone in a uniform is a hero.

You stated all people who wear a uniform are heros,and that is simply not the case,and it is a term bandied about , and diminishes it when it is used in it's proper context.

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Again just wearing a uniform does not make you a hero,let me give you the definition,

 

a person, typically a man, who is admired or idealized for courage, outstanding achievements, or noble qualities.

 

​And while i agree with you that the military personnel who die,are injured or are involved in fire fights should have that term used to show the respect people have for them,not everyone in a uniform is a hero.

You stated all people who wear a uniform are heros,and that is simply not the case,and it is a term bandied about , and diminishes it when it is used in it's proper context.

ok to get it into perspective[is that the right word lol ] i wear a uniform ok its a railway one im not putting my life in danger anybody that puts on a uniform and is willing to fight and maybe die for there country is a hero to me

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ok to get it into perspective[is that the right word lol ] i wear a uniform ok its a railway one im not putting my life in danger anybody that puts on a uniform and is willing to fight and maybe die for there country is a hero to me

Poppycock.

And that is from someone who wore an Army uniform for about 13 years,and who's son is a Military Policeman,and who's Dad was in the Royal Artillery for over 9 years.

 

My Dad was on the green line in cyprus as the ceasefire was on trying to stop rioting on a daily basis,my uncle in the same unit was in a pig that was blown up and survived two of his mates didn't,my Dad and my Uncle do not consider themselves heroes,i did NI and the Gulf,i have seen mates blown up and tried to find bits of them,i am no hero.

 

I know loads of Soldiers that would make your toes curl if i told you what they get up to on a regular basis.

 

Hero is a word to easily used.

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Lea Rigby wasn't in uniform. He may well have been heroic in his professional duty as a soldier, but he didn't die on duty nor in battle, nor in the service of his country. He was murdered on the street by deranged religious freaks. He died a murder victim and he should be remembered as an innocent victim not commemorated as a casualty of war. His killers do not deserve to have their deeds dignified by such comparisons. They are cowards, murderers and the lowest of criminals. They are not soldiers.

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Yeah, I've been quoting one!

 

If you put on that uniform, give the oath of allegiance, and are killed because of it. Then you are a hero as much as any VC winner, so why don't you get a grip!

I did put on that uniform and swear allegiance to the Queen,I did get a few medals along the way,and i know a few Lads who were killed.

 

As said Lee Rigby was not a hero,he was in civvies walking down a street, he was chosen at random by two nutters,they didn't even know he was a Squaddie they took a guess.

He was a victim of a horrendous crime and died in a horrendous way.but he is not a hero.

 

So as you say "get a grip". :rolleyes:

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I did put on that uniform and swear allegiance to the Queen,I did get a few medals along the way,and i know a few Lads who were killed.

 

As said Lee Rigby was not a hero,he was in civvies walking down a street, he was chosen at random by two nutters,they didn't even know he was a Squaddie they took a guess.

He was a victim of a horrendous crime and died in a horrendous way.but he is not a hero.

 

So as you say "get a grip". :rolleyes:

 

What's the point, some people would argue just for the sake of it. If you've served, like you say, I can't understand your indifference to a fallen comrade.

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What's the point, some people would argue just for the sake of it. If you've served, like you say, I can't understand your indifference to a fallen comrade.

Look i know you think i am an a/hole but speak to soldiers serving left it doesn't matter,they will mostly tell you what i am telling you,the word hero has popped up in the last few years when H4H came along,before that the public were fairly indifferent to Squaddies, we couldn't drink in some bars in uniform and were barred from clubs,we even had to wear civvies to walk to the camp because of the ira.

 

Most Squaddies are just like joe bloggs except they are in uniform, there are a lot who are out and out nutters,colchester is always full,and the rest get on with it in a professional way.

 

The point is by classing all soldiers as hero's you demean the word,the real hero's are medics who rush out under fire to patch up someone who has lost his leg,or the bloke who carries his mate a mile in 40 degree heat to safety,or the lads stuck in a fire fight standing their ground against bigger odds, hoping that an apache will get to them asap,people like that are heros.

 

I think it was an abhorrent act that Lee Rigby suffered, and i would throw money in a collection tin for his kids to have a future, but he was not a hero,he did nothing heroic when he was killed,in fact he probably never knew anything as the car hit him from behind.

He should be remembered i totally agree,but please put it in context.

 

Use hero for the lad that lost his leg dragging his mate out of a mine field.

Edited by welsh1
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Yeah, I've been quoting one!

 

If you put on that uniform, give the oath of allegiance, and are killed because of it. Then you are a hero as much as any VC winner, so why don't you get a grip!

Sorry but i think you are wrong on this reference to Lee Rigby, he was not in uniform.

 

Please try and argue without rancour dear chap. We all have differing views but do try and keep it civil.

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I think perhaps a memorial fund would be more appropriate and the poor chaps family wouldn't want a permanent memorial. He was a victim of terrorism not a hero.

 

It was a terrible act of unbelievable violence - but it was not an act of terrorism. To paraphrase a recent document:

 

Terrorist acts must fit two criteria: firstly they must be political acts designed to spread terror among opponents, and secondly they must target civilians. The first criteria is relatively uncontroversial, but the second may draw dissent from those who have got into the habit of labeling all violent activity by extremist groups terrorism.

 

It also bothers me that people still revert to 'hang 'em' as a progressive step. Whether people like it or not, it would make us as bad as the individuals they killed Mr Rigby. They killed him in response to the British Army killing Muslims overseas (I don't agree with their thinking, but that's their excuse!) and now people are saying we should kill them in the name of revenge or punishment. So, we kill them for

killing Mr Rigby - but we tell ourselves our killing is right and just????? The reasons (regardless of agreement or not) is the same - murdering someone because we believe the cause to be correct. Life imprisonment will almost certainly mean life of these gents. Living in fear of their own lives, wondering when a big hairy dude called Wendy is going to sneak up and hurt them. Every day, wondering why they weren't martyred as they hoped. Allah grants martyrdom for great deeds (if you believe such things, then good for you!) so these two 'believers' will be living their lives wondering where it all went so horribly wrong for them. Killing them would grant them martyrdom and no doing so shows we are more civilised and ultimately right.

 

As for a memorial, I don't think it is appropriate. As for being a hero, I think Mr Rigby was horribly unlucky & I appreciate his service to our country, but I like my heroes to be in fierce gun battles, charging against unbeatable odds, refusing to fall and defending freedom and liberty. I saw Justin Beiber described as a hero today; the word seems to have changed considerably in its meaning in recent years.

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I saw Justin Beiber described as a hero today; the word seems to have changed considerably in its meaning in recent years.

Jesus wept.

 

Very much like the outpourings 'grief' when Diana died, I feel people now seem to want to be seen to be doing the percieved 'correct' thing more than anything else, it is the emotional version of political correctness.

 

Totally agree with Welsh1 and Gimlet on this.

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Correct on all points.

 

Very similar to the roadside shrines that pop up whenever there has been a road fatality. Never saw them before Di died.

 

Jesus wept.

Very much like the outpourings 'grief' when Diana died, I feel people now seem to want to be seen to be doing the percieved 'correct' thing more than anything else, it is the emotional version of political correctness.

Totally agree with Welsh1 and Gimlet on this.

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Yvonne Fletcher was a serving police officer killed on duty. Lea Rigby at the time of his death was off duty, out of uniform and essentially a civilian murdered at random on the street.

Yep, she was in uniform on duty helping to control a small demonstration when hit at random along with several demonstrators by a burst of automatic fire. The debate is about heroics - was she one? If she was then so were all other police officers killed on duty. I would ask where are their memorials? The difference here was that I believe her memorial was organised by her colleagues and not nationally sponsored. Perhaps Lee Rigby's comrades could do likewise should they see fit.

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Each man who serves is (I think) remembered in their regimental histories. There were memorials to the MILLIONS who died in both wars and so it should be.

I, like many others, feel for the families of those injured or killed in the line of duty Yvonne Fletcher is one, Kieth Blakelock another. My view is that, like families, while they live, our loved ones remember us.

It matters not what the public think, they will do as they see fit. There aren't many who forget the two serving police officers above and personal remembrance is, in my book, the best remembrance.

Memorials there are at The National Service Memorial, I will remember Lee Rigby and so will his family - that should be enough for any man (or woman). JMO. Better to help the living injured and remember 'the fallen' personally.

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What if i am killed doing my job does that make me a Hero? I personally know of an ex service personnel who used to keep reminding people stood at the bar how he fought for me and you and this country, how it was all extremely dangerous in Iraq etc and how he's a 'hero' ....little do they know he worked in the stores! Lol the word hero gets used way too loosely, and frankly a hero IMO is someone who has done something extraordinary in combat and doesn't ask to be called one. So i agree putting on a fancy dress costume doesn't make you automatically a 'Hero'.

Edited by johnnythefox70
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...described as a hero today; the word seems to have changed considerably in its meaning in recent years.

 

Indeed. As has the word 'legend'.

 

Nowadays it's applied to a bloke down the pub with a reputation for the pathological abuse of alcohol and a propensity to remove his clothes when so doing.

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Indeed. As has the word 'legend'.

 

Nowadays it's applied to a bloke down the pub with a reputation for the pathological abuse of alcohol and a propensity to remove his clothes when so doing.

We call them 'Leg Ends' here - same letters but slight redistribution!!

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