hedd-wyn Posted May 28, 2014 Report Share Posted May 28, 2014 I always thought that hitting a dog was a thing of the past? I read a book once and it talked abut 'flogging' the dog as correction, but having said that it was written in the 1960's http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7P1yT8bbyZU The guy in this video appears to lift the dog by it's ears then smack it when it doesn't sit still! Now I'm fairly new to gundog training but I can tell you this now, if I treated my dog that way I would be getting nowhere fast. Was a bit gob smacked and stunned when I saw this to be honest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-Mongrel- Posted May 28, 2014 Report Share Posted May 28, 2014 (edited) Personally I think there is a world of difference between smacking a dog and beating a dog. A reprimand smack is something I have used with both my dogs, but it's no different to how I was smacked as a child. However, there is no excuse for punching/kicking/throwing a dog. In my opinion, a sharp slap is more than enough to get the message across. I actually used 'scruffing' much more than slaps, and you have to remember that dogs live in a physical world. If they are disciplined/discipline in the pack, it's generally a bite! Edited May 28, 2014 by -Mongrel- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 28, 2014 Report Share Posted May 28, 2014 Personally i would rather drink **** than that guy training my dog.totally unnecessary. And before half of the dog trainers on here disagree. IT'S WRONG. I took my dog to a dog trainer 18 months ago and the idiot kneed my dog in the ribs and nearly pulled its ears off the ******. I took my dog away from him,that's old school training How to break Spaniels. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jayDT10 Posted May 28, 2014 Report Share Posted May 28, 2014 As you said your fairly new to dog training I guess you've never had a head strong dog. Some dogs need taking down a peg or two physically and some just need a stern look. But before I get linched by the love thy dog no matter what brigade , by taking down a peg or two physically does not mean beating them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E.w. Posted May 28, 2014 Report Share Posted May 28, 2014 I always thought that hitting a dog was a thing of the past? I read a book once and it talked abut 'flogging' the dog as correction, but having said that it was written in the 1960's http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7P1yT8bbyZU The guy in this video appears to lift the dog by it's ears then smack it when it doesn't sit still! Now I'm fairly new to gundog training but I can tell you this now, if I treated my dog that way I would be getting nowhere fast. Was a bit gob smacked and stunned when I saw this to be honest. The truth is that all dogs are different and need training differently, at times a smack or scruffing as mongrel puts in is needed. In 1979 I bought a lab off anglesey that was a handful and far to much for his handler, I had one hell of a job enforcing my will on this dog smack bang wallop scruffing. The dog was one of the best game finders I've ever seen and went on and became a well known trail dog will all them slaps he got whilst being re trained. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 28, 2014 Report Share Posted May 28, 2014 As you said your fairly new to dog training I guess you've never had a head strong dog. Some dogs need taking down a peg or two physically and some just need a stern look. But before I get linched by the love thy dog no matter what brigade , by taking down a peg or two physically does not mean beating them. Yes that's right maybe i am only two years into dog training. The guy that help me with mine is 75 years old and has been training spaniels to FTC standard for along time. I have spent many hours with him and never seen him treat a dog like that. So whether i am new is does not matter,that my opinion. ATB Neil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Berettacocker Posted May 28, 2014 Report Share Posted May 28, 2014 Scolding with a gruff voice / scuffing or a little tug on the ear is plenty. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hedd-wyn Posted May 28, 2014 Author Report Share Posted May 28, 2014 As you said your fairly new to dog training I guess you've never had a head strong dog. Some dogs need taking down a peg or two physically and some just need a stern look. But before I get linched by the love thy dog no matter what brigade , by taking down a peg or two physically does not mean beating them. Being headstrong is one thing, but do you think that a dog refusing to sit needs 'bringing down a peg or two'? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pontbeck Posted May 28, 2014 Report Share Posted May 28, 2014 I do 't condone the smack, as , IMO , it wasn't necessary but the dog was lifted by it's scruff, not it's ears and that's acceptable IMO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 28, 2014 Report Share Posted May 28, 2014 I look at it like this....but i've only been training dogs for two years. When you pick a dog up by it's ears or by it's scuffs most of the dogs weight it on the neck and could damage it. Why would you want a dog that goes sticky every time you do a stupid trick like that. I was taught that when training and things are not going your way bite your lip and put the dog in the car and come back another day. ATB Neil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pontbeck Posted May 28, 2014 Report Share Posted May 28, 2014 And your right but he corrected the dog by replacing it , the dog wasn't in discomfort and that's acceptable I certainly would condem anyone lifting a dog by it's ears but the scruff wouldn't hurt but give the dog a jolt as if a reprand from it's mother Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-Mongrel- Posted May 28, 2014 Report Share Posted May 28, 2014 When a bitch carries a pup, what part of it's body does she carry it by? The handling in that vid was rough in my opinion but not abusive. I agree the smack was probably not necessary after the scruffing but that's a judgement made after 5 minutes of video. I stick by my assertion that at times dogs need physical correction. You may not agree with that Neil, that is your right of course as it is others right to hold a different opinion. I suspect that the reason the RSPCA haven't acted against him already is because they judge there isn't a case. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazooka Posted May 28, 2014 Report Share Posted May 28, 2014 The dog was ' brought out of the box for training at 11 months' my main concern, regardless of the correction techniques used, was that the dog looked to be doing it's upmost to please the guy and to me the dog did not know exactly what was required from it when being sat up to stay put. I also think he missed some great opportunities to reward the dog while it was doing as he'd asked. By rewarding it ASAP it would likely have grasped the excersise and complied given a bit of time and patience. I'm no angel but get a lot less physical these days due to it having done me and my dogs little good in the past. Have never beaten, kicked, punched or hit a dog with sticks, have felt frustrated enough to scruff, pull a lug and hold a dog by the chin but I have got to say that more times than not it is counter productive. One thing the clip does show is the guy using correction techniques in between retrieving training. Not adviseable IMO. retrive training should be pleasureable from start to finish for the dog and if the dog feels pressure from the trainer at that particular time it CAN lead to some serious problems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 28, 2014 Report Share Posted May 28, 2014 Hi Mongrel A bitch carries it's young by the scruff of it's neck by but does not weigh alot the dog in the vid must weigh 20 kg. I know what your saying thou,i just had a bad experience with a dog trainer and beat the **** out of my dog in front of me. As i did not want to lose my SC and FAC i walked away. ATB Neil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 28, 2014 Report Share Posted May 28, 2014 The dog was ' brought out of the box for training at 11 months' my main concern, regardless of the correction techniques used, was that the dog looked to be doing it's upmost to please the guy and to me the dog did not know exactly what was required from it when being sat up to stay put. I also think he missed some great opportunities to reward the dog while it was doing as he'd asked. By rewarding it ASAP it would likely have grasped the excersise and complied given a bit of time and patience. I'm no angel but get a lot less physical these days due to it having done me and my dogs little good in the past. Have never beaten, kicked, punched or hit a dog with sticks, have felt frustrated enough to scruff, pull a lug and hold a dog by the chin but I have got to say that more times than not it is counter productive. One thing the clip does show is the guy using correction techniques in between retrieving training. Not adviseable IMO. retrive training should be pleasureable from start to finish for the dog and if the dog feels pressure from the trainer at that particular time it CAN lead to some serious problems Bazooka The above post is IMO 100%. Thanks Neil 6 times PF Champion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazooka Posted May 28, 2014 Report Share Posted May 28, 2014 And your right but he corrected the dog by replacing it , the dog wasn't in discomfort and that's acceptable I certainly would condem anyone lifting a dog by it's ears but the scruff wouldn't hurt but give the dog a jolt as if a reprand from it's mother Not sure about that. He corrected the dog by replacing it in a way that the dog (or he believed the dog) would feel discomfort. Whether that be from the physical pressure or the mental pressure. Make no mistake though the guy was doing more than simply replacing the dog in a way that was not uncomfortable for the dog. There are much easier ways to simply reposition a dog in front of you that take much less effort. I dont think trying to find excuses for the corrections used helps anyone. Including the trainer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pontbeck Posted May 28, 2014 Report Share Posted May 28, 2014 You are of course once again correct and I submit to your superior knowledge I will defer to you in the future and not partake in any posts you comment on as your knowledge is superior to mine and and all others on this forum Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazooka Posted May 28, 2014 Report Share Posted May 28, 2014 (edited) You are of course once again correct and I submit to your superior knowledge I will defer to you in the future and not partake in any posts you comment on as your knowledge is superior to mine and and all others on this forum Thanks for that Gather the troops pal! What you cant do with words you might be able to do with numbers. Edited May 28, 2014 by Bazooka Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jayDT10 Posted May 28, 2014 Report Share Posted May 28, 2014 (edited) Being headstrong is one thing, but do you think that a dog refusing to sit needs 'bringing down a peg or two'? if it's been trained to sit and stay and has done just that for a while then all of a sudden decides to keep ignoring the command then yes. Edited May 28, 2014 by jayDT10 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E.w. Posted May 28, 2014 Report Share Posted May 28, 2014 The dog was ' brought out of the box for training at 11 months' my main concern, regardless of the correction techniques used, was that the dog looked to be doing it's upmost to please the guy and to me the dog did not know exactly what was required from it when being sat up to stay put. I also think he missed some great opportunities to reward the dog while it was doing as he'd asked. By rewarding it ASAP it would likely have grasped the excersise and complied given a bit of time and patience. I'm no angel but get a lot less physical these days due to it having done me and my dogs little good in the past. Have never beaten, kicked, punched or hit a dog with sticks, have felt frustrated enough to scruff, pull a lug and hold a dog by the chin but I have got to say that more times than not it is counter productive. One thing the clip does show is the guy using correction techniques in between retrieving training. Not adviseable IMO. retrive training should be pleasureable from start to finish for the dog and if the dog feels pressure from the trainer at that particular time it CAN lead to some serious problems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E.w. Posted May 28, 2014 Report Share Posted May 28, 2014 The dog was ' brought out of the box for training at 11 months' my main concern, regardless of the correction techniques used, was that the dog looked to be doing it's upmost to please the guy and to me the dog did not know exactly what was required from it when being sat up to stay put. I also think he missed some great opportunities to reward the dog while it was doing as he'd asked. By rewarding it ASAP it would likely have grasped the excersise and complied given a bit of time and patience. I'm no angel but get a lot less physical these days due to it having done me and my dogs little good in the past. Have never beaten, kicked, punched or hit a dog with sticks, have felt frustrated enough to scruff, pull a lug and hold a dog by the chin but I have got to say that more times than not it is counter productive. One thing the clip does show is the guy using correction techniques in between retrieving training. Not adviseable IMO. retrive training should be pleasureable from start to finish for the dog and if the dog feels pressure from the trainer at that particular time it CAN lead to some serious problems. You should look at that vid again at no point does this dog shown discomfort, and am sure the handler in question would run rings round most people on this forum, o and watch the dogs tail was it wagging or not. Weekend trainers are exactly that and end up teaching there dogs bad habits and then turn to guys in the vid to help correct there ****-ups, I take it you are a full time trainer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazooka Posted May 28, 2014 Report Share Posted May 28, 2014 You should look at that vid again at no point does this dog shown discomfort, and am sure the handler in question would run rings round most people on this forum, o and watch the dogs tail was it wagging or not. Weekend trainers are exactly that and end up teaching there dogs bad habits and then turn to guys in the vid to help correct there ****-ups, I take it you are a full time trainer. I think before you go shouting the odds you should read posts thouroughly. My point is trying to defend the trainer is not helping him. Or anyone else for that matter. Trying to make lame excuses for what techniques he uses is suggesting he is out of order. What he does, he does to cause the dog discomfort, whether you like that or not, Why else slap it's back? Now, I'm in no position to be condone or condemn to do that would be hypocritical but my point is, for you or anyone on here to try to say the dog was corrected in a way it felt no discomfort (either mentally or physically) you are kidding yourselves. Again, to suggest that is an insult to peoples intelligence and is actually doing the trainer no favour at all. Why do you feel you need to defend that? Can someone that is not a pro trainer not train a dog to a good standard? Jump on the bandwaggon matey-it will be a short ride though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Berettacocker Posted May 28, 2014 Report Share Posted May 28, 2014 I do 't condone the smack, as , IMO , it wasn't necessary but the dog was lifted by it's scruff, not it's ears and that's acceptable IMOthem black jangly things either side of its head are called ears and he picked him up by them! You can scuff a dog tweak an ear give a little growl then put it back on the spot it made the misdemeanor / fault from. You don't take it there then punish it, the mans an idiot and probably getting paid for being one! :( Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 28, 2014 Report Share Posted May 28, 2014 them black jangly things either side of its head are called ears and he picked him up by them! You can scuff a dog tweak an ear give a little growl then put it back on the spot it made the misdemeanor / fault from. You don't take it there then punish it, the mans an idiot and probably getting paid for being one! :( +1 top comment....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E.w. Posted May 28, 2014 Report Share Posted May 28, 2014 I think before you go shouting the odds you should read posts thouroughly. My point is trying to defend the trainer is not helping him. Or anyone else for that matter. Trying to make lame excuses for what techniques he uses is suggesting he is out of order. What he does, he does to cause the dog discomfort, whether you like that or not, Why else slap it's back? Now, I'm in no position to be condone or condemn to do that would be hypocritical but my point is, for you or anyone on here to try to say the dog was corrected in a way it felt no discomfort (either mentally or physically) you are kidding yourselves. Again, to suggest that is an insult to peoples intelligence and is actually doing the trainer no favour at all. Why do you feel you need to defend that? Can someone that is not a pro trainer not train a dog to a good standard? Jump on the bandwaggon matey-it will be a short ride though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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