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Weihrauch HW97 - should I fit a tuning kit?


brno223
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I chronographed my HW97 the other day - 20 shots for an average of 564.7 fps and 10.21 ft/lbs. The pellets were RWS Superdomes, 14.4 grains. The spread was 9 fps, high of 568 fps & low 559. I can't fault the gun for consistency, but the power is down - I'd like to have it about 11.5 ft/lbs.

 

I bought the gun in November 2005 and it's only done about 1000-1200 pellets, most of those in the last 6 months. Is it possible that the mainspring has taken on a 'set' due to lack of use? Would a tuning kit help? I've heard/read about Welsh Willy kits, V-Mach, etc, and seen YouTube clips of people fitting them. I guess one of these kits would get me closer to the legal limit, and would smooth the gun up and make cocking easier.

 

I'm tempted to leave well alone because I don't shoot game anymore, just targets, and the gun is accurate enough. But I've got the urge to tinker and could easily be persuaded to buy and install a tuning kit.

 

Any thoughts and/or advice?

 

TIA,

 

Steve

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after putting a tin of pellets through my new hw97kt,,i droped it off to welshwilly for one of his kits to be fitted and a polish up...the gun is much improved,it is a lot smoother to shoot and cock,,even though it was good out the box...some will say dont bother,some will says use another make kit...im glad i did,,and used Welshwilly as he's only a 30min drive from mine....go for it have a tinker :good:

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As a first step, I'd be getting sample packs of various pellets, and seeing if a different pellet makes a difference.

 

For example, my S410 likes AA fields (and 11.4-11.5 ft/lbs), but is close on 1 ft/lb lower on RWS superdomes.

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For a start the kits are NOT tuning kits they are a spring service kit.

A tune consists of polishing and resizing piston heads polishing the piston and polishing the sears on the trigger.

I have tuned a few rifles. And i always use sandwell fieldsports spring service kits. Consists of a titan spring a very tight fitting delrin top hat a snug fitting delrin spring guide two tubs of grease and preload washers.

To do a tune takes time and alot of patients.

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For a start the kits are NOT tuning kits they are a spring service kit.

A tune consists of polishing and resizing piston heads polishing the piston and polishing the sears on the trigger.

I have tuned a few rifles. And i always use sandwell fieldsports spring service kits. Consists of a titan spring a very tight fitting delrin top hat a snug fitting delrin spring guide two tubs of grease and preload washers.

To do a tune takes time and alot of patients.

 

I've seen them referred to as both - tuning kits and spring service kits. Surely the point is that a V-Mach or Welsh Willy kit is designed to provide superior replacement parts that deliver improved performance - in effect a stage 1 tune that someone like me can do.

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after putting a tin of pellets through my new hw97kt,,i droped it off to welshwilly for one of his kits to be fitted and a polish up...the gun is much improved,it is a lot smoother to shoot and cock,,even though it was good out the box...some will say dont bother,some will says use another make kit...im glad i did,,and used Welshwilly as he's only a 30min drive from mine....go for it have a tinker :good:

 

I think I will - tinker, that is. Only problem seems to be the lead time for the Welsh Willy kit (which I like the look of) - almost a month :(

 

As a first step, I'd be getting sample packs of various pellets, and seeing if a different pellet makes a difference.

 

For example, my S410 likes AA fields (and 11.4-11.5 ft/lbs), but is close on 1 ft/lb lower on RWS superdomes.

 

I concentrated on the RWS pellets because they group well in my rifle. But I did try Accupell - they delivered much the same results as the RWS. I also tried H&N Field & Target but they are heavier - 15.1 grains - and came in under 10 ft/lbs. I think I'll go lighter and try Crossman Premiums (14.3 grains).

 

But I do think the rifle needs fettling. It's been stored away for some years and may have suffered as a result.

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Give WW a call,,he's a real decent guy to deal with,,you may get it sooner...I im sure he also uses Titan springs with all the bits made to suit each spring..when he tuned,fettled,polished (or what ever you wont to call it) my hw97 inc the trigger unit,i couldn't get over how much he charged me,,i tried to offer him more,,but he wouldn't take it !

have a ring around,,speak to a few people,see if theres someone local to you...if not I know WW will talk you through it all..the hw97 aint that hard to strip,,look on youtube plenty of vids on there...yet I had 2 other airguns I had him to sort out at the same time as my hw97,,,thats why I used him,,plus he was local and decent to talk to over the phone....RWS is what I use through mine and find them spot on....

Edited by simjakcal
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The thing is most new air rifles will pump out around 10.5 ft lbs. It's not being underpowered it's just so when bisley magnums etc are fired through it it doesn't go over 12 ft lbs. The truth is though ALL 'sub 12 ft lb' airguns are over 12 ft lbs with a heavy enough pellet. And those pellets are available.

 

Get it tuned, but tell whoever does it to set the power to 11.5 ft lbs with the medium grain pellet of your choice.

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I've seen them referred to as both - tuning kits and spring service kits. Surely the point is that a V-Mach or Welsh Willy kit is designed to provide superior replacement parts that deliver improved performance - in effect a stage 1 tune that someone like me can do.

A basic stage one tune is tight fitted top hat a snug fit spring guide. Both ends of sprinh polished to mirror finish piston polished to mirror finish.

When i tune any rifle i work on it for a full day.

Polishing the piston, honing the chamber, polish the sear on the piston all to a mirror finish.

That takes half a day. The rest of the day i strip the trigger and polish all the sears in the trigger re grease the trigger springs the sears. And re assemble.

Then i size up the piston seal till the piston under its own weight drops down the cylinder. Then properly re grease piston smallest amount as the polishing reduces the friction.

Regrease the spring and delrin spring guide. And re assemble.

That is a tune.

 

The kits are no way a tune. Yes they are better fitting parts so less vibration reducing the twang.

But they dont smooth the rifle out.

 

Take it from me and any other decent well known tuner and they will say the same.

A drop in kit fixes one two issues does not make it a tune.

 

A tune your aiming at reducing recoil but maintaining the velocity but also reducing the spread to a more consistent number.

Your also makeing the gun shoot smoother

Your also increasing the lock up

And finally making the gun more consistent.

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A basic stage one tune is tight fitted top hat a snug fit spring guide. Both ends of spring polished to mirror finish piston polished to mirror finish.

 

 

 

My opinion every springer needs the above.

 

I'm on with HW80 at the moment, & parts of the engineering are something to be desired.... :yes:

 

Germans are renowned for their engineering, but in this department they need to take a bit more time in quality control.... :w00t::)

 

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Give WW a call,,he's a real decent guy to deal with,,you may get it sooner...I im sure he also uses Titan springs with all the bits made to suit each spring..when he tuned,fettled,polished (or what ever you wont to call it) my hw97 inc the trigger unit,i couldn't get over how much he charged me,,i tried to offer him more,,but he wouldn't take it !

have a ring around,,speak to a few people,see if theres someone local to you...if not I know WW will talk you through it all..the hw97 aint that hard to strip,,look on youtube plenty of vids on there...yet I had 2 other airguns I had him to sort out at the same time as my hw97,,,thats why I used him,,plus he was local and decent to talk to over the phone....RWS is what I use through mine and find them spot on....

 

I've just spoken to WW. As you say, a very helpful and informative guy. I've been on his web site and ordered a kit, which I'll fit myself. I'm not the best at stuff like this but I've stripped and fettled the occasional firearm, both pistol and rifle, so feel reasonably comfortable about doing it.

 

Thanks for your input.

 

Cheers,

 

Steve

Edited by brno223
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Its easy pal. Once stock is off and under lever and cocking arm is off and the bear trap. Knock the pins out that hold the trigger in place but put some insolation tape over the safety as once the trigger is loose the safety button and spring tend to go flying. Use a large spanner with a thin bit of cloth wrapped around insert were the trigger goes and whack it anti clock wise then unscrew.

Dont worry about preload as there isnt any preload.

While its in bits get some wet and dry 400, 800 and 1200 grit sandpaper. Start with 400 and work all the way upto the 1200 and polish the piston and the sear on the piston.

When you get the kit be very sparing with the moly slide.

If you want any advice you can always contact me

aswell as willy.

There is also alot of handy home tuning videos on youtube aswell best i have found are the ones by geordie hunters. Even though there tuning using the v mach spring service kit the principals and methods used are fine with what your doing.

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My opinion every springer needs the above.

 

I'm on with HW80 at the moment, & parts of the engineering are something to be desired.... :yes:

 

Germans are renowned for their engineering, but in this department they need to take a bit more time in quality control.... :w00t::)

 

I have just done a hw80. Fantastic rifle to work on i dont by cut and lathe my own kits i use sandwell fieldsports spring kits and a lad i shoot with brought it to me as a restoration did the stock re-blued and polished all the internals and trigger for him re assembled it ran it over the chronno with one preload washer was doing 11.95 ftlb average over 6 shots highest was 12.01 and lowest was 11.91 so took washer out and dropped down to 11.25 highest lowest 11.18 and average of 11.19

Zeroed it in on my homemade range pellet tested and its awsome found best matching pellet for him bisley long range gold. He collected had a few shots on the range and he was grinning. But it was really nice to work on.

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Its easy pal. Once stock is off and under lever and cocking arm is off and the bear trap. Knock the pins out that hold the trigger in place but put some insolation tape over the safety as once the trigger is loose the safety button and spring tend to go flying. Use a large spanner with a thin bit of cloth wrapped around insert were the trigger goes and whack it anti clock wise then unscrew.

Dont worry about preload as there isnt any preload.

While its in bits get some wet and dry 400, 800 and 1200 grit sandpaper. Start with 400 and work all the way upto the 1200 and polish the piston and the sear on the piston.

When you get the kit be very sparing with the moly slide.

If you want any advice you can always contact me

aswell as willy.

There is also alot of handy home tuning videos on youtube aswell best i have found are the ones by geordie hunters. Even though there tuning using the v mach spring service kit the principals and methods used are fine with what your doing.

 

Useful tip about the safety - WW warned me about the spring, so your suggestion about tape is a good idea.

 

Thanks for offer of advice/help - might take you up on it if I get into trouble.

 

Seen a few of the vids on YouTube, they encouraged me to have a go.

 

When I've done the HW97, I have an old BSA Airsporter waiting in the wings. I've had it for getting on 40 years and it's been much neglected. Plenty of external rust. I can just about cock and fire it, it's well down on power, but I can't free the stock bolt for love or money. I may have to seek professional assistance unless you can suggest something :)

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Guest cookoff013

i had an `80 done ages ago, after that it changed my opinion of springers. to go hunting with one is utter magical.

 

i`ve a .177 with HN-ftt and it is great. i managed to get 50 tins in a great deal.

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Only thing really is soak the bolts in wd 40 or 3in1 oil and try free them everyday and every day add a little more oil till it starts unscrewing.

Other then that last resort but only if you have a steady hand is drill and tap. But normally just the wd 40 works after a bit.

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[snip]

 

When I've done the HW97, I have an old BSA Airsporter waiting in the wings. I've had it for getting on 40 years and it's been much neglected. Plenty of external rust. I can just about cock and fire it, it's well down on power, but I can't free the stock bolt for love or money. I may have to seek professional assistance unless you can suggest something :)

 

 

Only thing really is soak the bolts in wd 40 or 3in1 oil and try free them everyday and every day add a little more oil till it starts unscrewing.

Other then that last resort but only if you have a steady hand is drill and tap. But normally just the wd 40 works after a bit.

 

Well... I spoke too soon. I'd left the stock bolt soaking in penetrating oil for a couple of weeks, and it seems to have done the trick. Got the gun out of the safe, applied leverage to a large screwdriver with a pair of mole grips, and the bolt freed at the first attempt.

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I have just done a hw80. Fantastic rifle to work on i dont by cut and lathe my own kits i use sandwell fieldsports spring kits and a lad i shoot with brought it to me as a restoration did the stock re-blued and polished all the internals and trigger for him re assembled it ran it over the chronno with one preload washer was doing 11.95 ftlb average over 6 shots highest was 12.01 and lowest was 11.91 so took washer out and dropped down to 11.25 highest lowest 11.18 and average of 11.19

Zeroed it in on my homemade range pellet tested and its awsome found best matching pellet for him bisley long range gold. He collected had a few shots on the range and he was grinning. But it was really nice to work on.

 

 

 

I like the simplistic design of the HW80, & there's plenty scope to customize it to your liking.

 

This one's getting Blued/Stock done for starters, then I'm thinking on doing the piston (buttoning), & then onto the trigger.

 

Thing is, once I start I find something else that I fancy doing to it.. :yes: .. :lol:

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I know the feeling pal. I have a few and my personal favourite is my hw98 it is awsome trigger polished to the highest standard on the polishing wheel same with the piston. Honed out the chamber. Sent piston off to be buttoned a sandwell fieldsports spring kit had the barrel threaded thumbhole stock adjustable cheeck piece adjustable butt pad a weihrauch silencer fitted going to get the stock laminated next

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As a trial run I stripped down the HW97 while waiting for the WW kit to arrive. I did a quick polish of both ends of the spring and of the metal washer on the spring guide, and applied a bit of lube. Afterwards I ran 20 pellets over the chrono and got an average speed of 573.45 fps with a spread of just under 10 fps - modest but useful increase of just under 9 fps, or about 1.5%. A small but definite improvement....

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I put a Welsh Wily in my HW97 and boy was it hot...... I mean very hot - I had to trim the spring down as it was running over the limit. When I sold it the gun was running at 11.3ft/lb and was a dream to shoot.

 

If you get a Welsh Willy make sure you have a chromo as well as they can go over power and it is your responsibility to make sure it is legal.

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I put a Welsh Wily in my HW97 and boy was it hot...... I mean very hot - I had to trim the spring down as it was running over the limit. When I sold it the gun was running at 11.3ft/lb and was a dream to shoot.

 

If you get a Welsh Willy make sure you have a chromo as well as they can go over power and it is your responsibility to make sure it is legal.

 

I've got a chrono so I can check the power levels.

 

My next job is to work on the spring guide. The spring is very tight and that must lose me some power. I'm going to work on it with some wet and dry and see what power increase that gets me. My only concern is by the time I've done all this fettling I won't need the WW kit ;)

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If the spring is tight on the spring guide dont touch the guide.

A tight fit on the spring guide is good it takes all the vibration and twang away that want effect your power if lubricated right.

And to be honest mate i wouldnt do to many changes mate as it would be all down the pan once your ww kit arrives.

The best easiest way of sorting your power is by adjusting the pre load just enough.

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If the spring is tight on the spring guide dont touch the guide.

A tight fit on the spring guide is good it takes all the vibration and twang away that want effect your power if lubricated right.

And to be honest mate i wouldnt do to many changes mate as it would be all down the pan once your ww kit arrives.

The best easiest way of sorting your power is by adjusting the pre load just enough.

 

I know it's prolly wasted work but it's risk-free experimentation - if I make a total b*lls up of the job it doesn't matter, because I can fall back on the WW kit.

 

I did work on the guide - just a bit though. It's still tight on the spring, but not as tight as it was. Result? The power is about the same as it was before - if anything it's fallen a bit. Ho-hum....

 

But I'm learning all the time. After 30 years with firearms, this is a whole new experience.

 

P.S. To adjust the preload, do I need some correctly sized washers?

Edited by brno223
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