Brancaster

[Doriboy]

bobshooting, I think you and I could be friends (dont't know if I actually know you already) but you talk a lot of sense.

Jack

[bobshooting]

bobshooting, I think you and I could be friends (dont't know if I actually know you already) but you talk a lot of sense.

Jack

PM sent

[riptide]

1/4 share !? Mmmmm easy to say but not so easy to do!!! Now I am well versed in common rights and to the point appertaining to cattle and all beasties furry but as Livestock units and stocking density’s and ancient rights allowing common use with set numbers complex to the extreme I would think and especially in the taking of Fowl or turning the Sod ,but wait that’s not allowed the sod I mean as that’s the lord of the manors ,picking the sapphire ,one thinks that one right allows for such but if divided by 4 is that now not 4 times the amount ?.Of course one can fly by wire and hope the powers that be are as much in the dark as the 1/4 share holder will be!!! A right is a right and can be used as such weather lent, rented, leased, given or owned but a Quarter now that’s a fine thing. I have a common at my command but cannot claim livestock units (LUs) as their are none left over as a right holder has excess beasties to his name, but then he is many moons dead and deep, and so he grazers no stock,, but still DEFRA wont part with my rightful (No Pun Intended) rights to claim the acreage of rights as these would be in and over those owned by a non-existent person!!! One supposes that a 1/4 of a person can take a 1/4 of a Fowl by using a 1/4 of a gun (or by any other means) during a 1/4 of a day..... As Fagin was rumoured to say I think I had better think it out again!!!!!

[anser2]

Perhaps if they scale down to .410s and only shoot teal they might get around that Richard.

[Double four]

It dosnt matter because there is nothing to stop them shooting it under wildspacers fund had confirmation today from council,

[Jono 4]

A very sad day for wildfowling, 100 objections to kent Wildfowlers taking a share of the common rights through the back door I.e. Their charity The Wild Spaces Fund, never has a transfer received so many objections. was this land to be lost to wildfowling no, was the lease on the open market no, there are two sucessful clubs managing the shooting in the area, this has nothing to do with preserving wildfowling as it was not in danger on the site, it is greed pure and simple wanting what someone else has and taking it by any means. A very sad day indeed, when Wildfowlers would take from one and other what hope is their, it's just greed pure and simple, let's hope their selfish actions won't lead to restrictions being placed on all of us who shoot that part of the coast.

[anser2]

Well said Jono . As I have always said we have a viper in our minst and the future for any wildfowler who is not a member of kent Wildfowlers is at serious risk.

 

This whole situation illistrates the so called Wide Spaces fund is just a sham . It this what the Wide Spaces Fund was realy set up for. A method to muscle into other fowlers shooting through the back door. I would suggest every kent Wildfowler looks closely at his club and its ethics and asks himself if he realy wishes to be a member of such an organsition.

Edited August 14, 2014 by anser2

[Double four]

^{Jono 4 the job is knackered now as you know the shooting it has been dropping off for a number of years and is a shadow of its former self , myself and jim sold our rights last week to recover our costs and since then I know of three more for sale from people who are ditching them all because of Kents actions, I have also heard on the grapevine that more clubs will follow in Kents footsteps so if you want to shoot it you may as well be in a club.}

^{Its a ****** for people who have enjoyed the solitude down there and on many occasions In the past I have been on my lonesome with up to 40.000 geese coming off on area where as now you would be lucky at its peak getting 1500 with a few hundred being the norm ! it is still a nice place to shoot though if you can put up with the regular antis and general public who sneer at you and on occasions you can have a good do but with whats going on now you may as well be in a club for the fraction of the cost!}

^{I don't like A Jarret or kents morals and how the tread on peoples toes and take or try and take over peoples shooting but in a changing world wildfowling is getting harder my own clubs up north are battling with consents etc everything is getting tighter so do Kent have the right idea ? in the end if the Kent machine keeps rolling we may all have to be members of it !!!!!}

^{I also heard whether true or not that they have designs on other North Norfolk marshes so if I join kent who knows I may be able to shoot your marsh Anser 2 where as now it is prohibited to outsiders ??}

[panoma1]

^{Jono 4 the job is knackered now as you know the shooting it has been dropping off for a number of years and is a shadow of its former self , myself and jim sold our rights last week to recover our costs and since then I know of three more for sale from people who are ditching them all because of Kents actions, I have also heard on the grapevine that more clubs will follow in Kents footsteps so if you want to shoot it you may as well be in a club.}

^{Its a ****** for people who have enjoyed the solitude down there and on many occasions In the past I have been on my lonesome with up to 40.000 geese coming off on area where as now you would be lucky at its peak getting 1500 with a few hundred being the norm ! it is still a nice place to shoot though if you can put up with the regular antis and general public who sneer at you and on occasions you can have a good do but with whats going on now you may as well be in a club for the fraction of the cost!}

^{I don't like A Jarret or kents morals and how the tread on peoples toes and take or try and take over peoples shooting but in a changing world wildfowling is getting harder my own clubs up north are battling with consents etc everything is getting tighter so do Kent have the right idea ? in the end if the Kent machine keeps rolling we may all have to be members of it !!!!!}

^{I also heard whether true or not that they have designs on other North Norfolk marshes so if I join kent who knows I may be able to shoot your marsh Anser 2 where as now it is prohibited to outsiders ??}

 

Double Four, Anser2, Jono 4, et- al, as you all know I have been warning of this possibility for years and have been accused of my opinion being driven by jealousy! perhaps now these closed clubs will get off their complacent, fat, selfish ****s, get their heads out of the sand and try to do something inclusive in order to make friends and protect their shooting? It may be too late already?

 

Fiddling whilst Rome burns, it appears may no longer be the answer!

[Double four]

Panama It appears I will have to give you this one and yes you are right the days are numbered of the exclusive clubs infact I think faster than they realise, but let me put you straight on one thing I have never been in an exclusive club in my life I bought the right to shoot at brancaster/holkham same as you or any other man could have done if they really wanted too.

I have had the best of it there seen the big numbers of geese dwindle through "perhaps" the likes of me and others over shooting a marsh which was good because for years it never got much pressure or attention.

Then the outsiders/me arrived coupled with the lack of sugar beet fields and now the early working up of the land of remaining beet fields, plus the natural england reserve at the rear which were always un shot are now shot so hardly anything goes in there anymore

Don't get me wrong I will still shoot down there if I get the chance as a club member with whatever club, but I can sit back and be happy that I had some fantastic sport down in the the early days which the likes I fear I will never see again through even more pressure but with the sale of my rights it didn't cost me a penny and even cost me less than £300 in local club subs in around the 9 years I held the rights so was I really that naïve and not forward thinking Panama while your rome burned ?

Edited August 15, 2014 by Double four

[anser2]

Panioma1 You have not been alone of warning of the dager to the future of wildfowling super clubs pose. I think I first brought up the subject years ago. As for my club being threatened , perhaps but at the present the restriction of local membership comes from our landlord not the club its self. When I was an officer of the club I always suggested that 10% of the membership should come from outside the area but , if your landlord says a condition of your lease is restricting membership to locals there is not a lot you can do about it.

 

The biggest risk comes when superclubs flash the cash and pay huge 6, figuar sums of money for nearby shooting , it reflects on your future lease agreements and costs fowlers a lot more money.

Edited August 15, 2014 by anser2

[panoma1]

As you well know Double Bore I have never criticized Brancaster, probably because I do not know enough about the arrangements there! was it a club or a syndicate? or something in between!

I have just come back from a Grouse day (wet!) on the 'glorious twelfth' over pointers, the moor is privately owned land, so I have no problem with ownership or privilege ! because I can pay and get access!!!

But what sticks in my craw is the selfish individuals which have for years masqueraded as just an ordinary Wildfowling club, but have in reality hidden behind the pretence of being a club but are really a private parochial syndicate that excludes everyone unconnected outwith the immediate area from shooting what were and should still be, public access marshes! they are the real enemy of true Wildfowling!

 

Putting the record straight.....Rome has never burned for me Double Bore, because I have only ever patronised open and inclusive Wildfowling clubs and free marshes, not exclusive private Wildfowling syndicates so I personally have never really lost anything!.........I acknowledge the benefits of a club to control their local marshes, but this should not be to the exclusion of all other genuine Wildfowlers!........when more open access could be achieved by a controlled permit scheme....... but no! even you Double Bore could not buy the right to shoot these places!!....

 

And no! I am not particularly referring to your club Anser2 but if the cap fits?....It will be interesting to see which way your landlord falls when he is faced with a suitcase full of cash from a predatory competitor for the shooting rights! compared to the chicken feed your "club " probably currently pays? I predict that if your "club" (and others) try to hang on to exclusivity they are the ones who are in my opinion "Fiddling whilst Rome burns"

 

Only time will tell eh?!

[bobshooting]

It's really sad to see happening to others what has already happened to me and my little local club at Thornham.

 

Don't expect Natural England to come to your aid, even if you protest about increased shooting pressure, they'll promise much, deliver little.

 

Times have changed, we must change with them I guess.

 

The Kent methodology, whatever you say about it, works.

[Double four]

You can call me a bore if you like paul iv been called a lot worse I find it quite amusing and its not the first time but again jelous kids will be jelous kids, I have a cracker of a name for you but ill save that for a special occasion when im not so busy, at least Im not boring as you with your continual jealousy and swipes at people that have better or get off their fat **** and get shooting rather than continually snivel and moan at people that actually make thing happen for themselves have a nice day matey im off to feed my ponds

[panoma1]

Well that tirade was unnecessary! I was not calling you a bore Bob just drawing your attention (tit for tat!) to the fact that you are consistently (deliberately?) miss-spelling my 'forum handle' (if that's the right terminology?) in your response to my postings....... you should perhaps try to be a little less precious and sensitive............bearing in mind the inaccurate sarcastic personal criticism you often dish out over the net!

[Double four]

Thank you for that compliment

[anser2]

As you you state you do not know what you are talking about on the matter. There is many factors that landowners and conservation interests think are just as important as money when it comes to coastal wildfowling. for example wildfowling continues on the coast because the conservation bodies are reasonable happy with the low level of shooting in the area. If that increases then no new consents will be issued or if they are then restrictions will be a hell of a lot tighter. The more big land grabbing big super clubs sniff around the area the more the future of any wildfowling comes under threat.

 

I dispare at your attitude that you can get anything you want if you flash the cash at it. There is no reason why you or any one else cant join these so called private parochial clubs , they are open to anyone who is a safe suitable gun. All you have to do is what I did. change my job and move into the area. If wildfowling does not mean enough for you to do that You are obviously not a serious wildfowler.

[panoma1]

Its My pleasure Bob I would rather compliment a person than insult them unfairly and unnecessarily! how about you?

 

The best form of defence is attack eh Anser2, regrettably and as much as we wish it wasn't so, money talks........ to deny this is burying your head in the sand! deliberate misrepresentation of what is posted and thinly disguised insults, half truths and waffle hardly contribute to grown up debate do they? try to distort the facts as much as you wish.....only time will tell who is right! I can sit and wait...............I doubt you or your Club can!

 

I have had my say now......... so do your worst regarding more personal insults....I'm out of this particular errrr debate

[Double four]

How about me ? I Would rather not answer you as i feel its a waste of time and energy on somebody i couldn't give a toss about anyway! so same as you end of convesation

[panoma1]

As you you state you do not know what you are talking about on the matter (how did you reach that conclusion? and where did I write that?) There is many factors that landowners and conservation interests think are just as important as money when it comes to coastal wildfowling (How do you know this? where is your evidence?) for example wildfowling continues on the coast because the conservation bodies are reasonable happy (again evidence of this statement please!) with the low level of shooting in the area (rubbish! weak club leadership has used low Wildfowling pressure to appease NE and their puppeteers) . If that increases then no new consents will be issued (scaremongering bulls ****) or if they (there?) are then restrictions will be a hell of a lot tighter (rubbish just scare tactics designed to keep the Wildfowling exclusive within a club!) The more big land grabbing big super clubs sniff around the area the more the future of any wildfowling comes under threat (how do you come to this conclusion? Wildfowlings future will not come under threat but a small parochial club may well do!)

 

I dispare (dispair) at your attitude ( where do you conclude this is my attitude?) that you can get anything you want if you flash the cash at it. There is no reason why you or any one else cant join these so called private parochial clubs , they are open to anyone who is a safe suitable gun (yea right). All you have to do is what I did. change my job and move into the area. If wildfowling does not mean enough for you (ridiculous conclusion!) to do that You are obviously not a serious wildfowler. (again ridiculous! resorting to personal insults is a sure sign your losing the argument!)

 

 

 

 

 

Please see my response to Anser2's posting in red!

 

Apologies I did say I was out of this debate but as Anser2's comments were not only inaccurate heresay but directed at me personally I have exercised a right of reply!

Edited August 15, 2014 by panoma1

[shaun4860]

Will be a shame to close this thread so please keep the personal insults out of it

 

As a non fowler I have followed this thread with interest,

 

I thought we were all shooters together but it seems that may not be the case

 

[anser2]

I stand by every word of my previous post.

 

From Panorma1 last post.

 

Quote “probably because I do not know enough about the arrangements there! was it a club or a syndicate? or something in between!”

 

That’s where it becomes clear you do not know about the situation.

 

Because I work for one of the conservation organisations

 

Quote” There is many factors that landowners and conservation interests think are just as important as money when it comes to coastal wildfowling (How do you know this? where is your evidence?).”

 

Because I work for one of the conservation organisations. In addition I have been a senior club official so have a finger on the pulse of the issues of the area unlike you.

 

 

Quote “(rubbish! weak club leadership has used low Wildfowling pressure to appease NE and their puppeteers)

 

You clearly show little understanding of modern wildfowl issues. It we all took your attitude there will be no wildfowling on this coast.

 

Quote “(rubbish just scare tactics designed to keep the Wildfowling exclusive within a club!

That’s you personal opinion and is wrong. For reasons I cant go into on a public forum. Pm me if you wish to know more.

 

In the last round of consents a conservation body attempted to stop all wildfowling on our marsh , but fortunately the landlord was very pro shooting and would not agree.

 

The more big land grabbing big super clubs sniff around the area the more the future of any wildfowling comes under threat (how do you come to this conclusion? Wildfowlings future will not come under threat but a small parochial club may well do!)

 

They are not happy with one new arriving clubs activities ( increase in shooting pressure ) and again attempted to withhold consents. This had a knock on effect when a conservation body attempted to stop all wildfowling on our marsh , but fortunately the landlord was very pro shooting and would not agree.

 

Quote “here is no reason why you or any one else cant join these so called private parochial clubs , they are open to anyone who is a safe suitable gun (yea right).

 

If you lived within the catchment area you could be in my club within a year.

 

Quote “ (again ridiculous! resorting to personal insults is a sure sign your losing the argument!)

 

The comments on my post show that you cant be serious about the sport or at the very least have a poor understanding about the important issues surrounding it. There is a lot more to wildfowling than killing birds.

[DNT]

It seems to me your all going a bit over the top. Now that legal advice etc. has come to the fore, I can now speak where before I refused. We were approached (as we often are) by someone wishing to dispose of a quarter share of a Common Right. We have negotiated and purchased that right, a straight forward business transaction. WSF is the conservation arm of KWCA and has carried out and overseen thousands of pounds worth of work on our lands, mainly on habitat improvements bringing neglected sites back into favourable condition (NE's words). In fact we recently gave a guided tour to the Regional Manager of the RSPB to one of our flagship sites, he stated that they with all they resources could have done no better. I said before we have a vision for the future to sustain Wildfowling on an inclusive basis for as many as possible. We do not intend to take over the Country, but we will continue to offer help where we can and yes lease or purchase land as it becomes available in whatever name/section or affiliation of the club suits our business. I know I am repeating what I have said in the past, but others are now singing from the same hymn sheet. Work together inclusively, try to encourage your land lords to allow you to set some places aside for OUTSIDERS and watch your support grow. Finally face upto the fact that we live in a constantly changed and changing world and please stop criticising those who have the foresight to look at the big picture and take the big decisions. If you want private exclusive shooting, be a syndicate, get some land, defend it with all your mite and stop masquerading has a club, and yes I can already here the shouts of KWCA hiding behind WSF in this particular business transaction. Well has I have said already the WSF is a legal separate Company who represent the conservation work of KWCA. That is not and has never been a secret, it's all over the front page of our website for goodness sake (just because you don't know about it in Norfolk, doesn't make it a secret society). The KWCA have received many messages of support from right across the Country and sporting world for trying to carry the inclusive message forward. I have at all times remained as honest and polite (I hope) as possible in my posts. But please don't expect us to apologise for our vision, because we won't.

[Terry P]

DNT. I have always supported kents views of wildfowling for all but after reading this thread your club does come across as under handed in this particular transaction, with thornham they were clearly going to lose it so I believe kent had as much right to bid for it as anyone, but why did you use your conservation arm of the club to buy this quarter share,(is this the first time you have dine so) does this mean that you will only be doing conservation work on the marsh and not flooding it with members, if only one person owned the share you bought just allowing 2 members to shooting is already doubling the numbers that share allowed on the marsh.

I feel your club has done itself no favours with the way it has dealt with this issue and as much as it pains me to say it you've caused a huge rift in wildfowling.

[panoma1]

I stand by every word of my previous post.

 

From Panorma1 last post. (try panoma1)

 

Quote “probably because I do not know enough about the arrangements there! was it a club or a syndicate? or something in between!”

 

That’s where it becomes clear you do not know about the situation(As you know full well I was referring to the 'situation' at Brancaster, I know a fair bit about the 'matter' of closed, selfish, parochial so called Wildfowling clubs!)

 

Because I work for one of the conservation organisations (toilet cleaners work for the local authority but have no input into council policy decisions)

 

Quote” There is many factors that landowners and conservation interests think are just as important as money when it comes to coastal wildfowling (How do you know this? where is your evidence?).”

 

Because I work for one of the conservation organisations. In addition I have been a senior club official so have a finger on the pulse of the issues of the area unlike you.(as above! reference toilet cleaner! and you have no idea whether I currently hold or have held a senior position in a proper club!)

 

 

Quote “(rubbish! weak club leadership has used low Wildfowling pressure to appease NE and their puppeteers)

 

You clearly show little understanding of modern wildfowl issues. It we all took your attitude there will be no wildfowling on this coast (all your opinion again based on conjecture and ignorance?

 

Quote “(rubbish just scare tactics designed to keep the Wildfowling exclusive within a club!

That’s you personal opinion and is wrong. For reasons I cant go into on a public forum. Pm me if you wish to know more (Yep your right! just my opinion am I not entitled to it? because it differs from yours!)

 

In the last round of consents a conservation body attempted to stop all wildfowling on our marsh , but fortunately the landlord was very pro shooting and would not agree.

 

The more big land grabbing big super clubs sniff around the area the more the future of any wildfowling comes under threat (how do you come to this conclusion? Wildfowlings future will not come under threat but a small parochial club may well do!)

 

They are not happy with one new arriving clubs activities ( increase in shooting pressure ) and again attempted to withhold consents. This had a knock on effect when a conservation body attempted to stop all wildfowling on our marsh , but fortunately the landlord was very pro shooting and would not agree.(I stand by what I have said, wildfowling is more at risk from the closed parochial Clubs than from bigger more powerful inclusive clubs)

 

Quote “here is no reason why you or any one else cant join these so called private clubs , they are open to anyone who is a safe suitable gun (yea right).

 

If you lived within the catchment area you could be in my club within a year.

 

Quote “ (again ridiculous! resorting to personal insults is a sure sign your losing the argument!)

 

The comments on my post show that you cant be serious about the sport or at the very least have a poor understanding about the important issues surrounding it. There is a lot more to wildfowling than killing birds (please don't cast aspersions on my knowledge and experience of the sport and how things work or don't work! you know nowt about me or my experience! and please don't patronise me its very rude!)

 

Sorry I didn't know I was talking to Anser2 the self appointed font of all knowledge on Wildfowling! My opinion is as least as valid as yours so have the good grace to stick to facts rather than hurling personal insults and questioning my knowledge when you have a different view to mine!

 

To the Mod (shaun4860) who wrote about removing this thread *please note* I have tried to remain factual in expressing opinion and have not deliberately posted any personal insults!