Jump to content

Brancaster


scolopax
 Share

Recommended Posts

But there is no getting away from the fact that the Wide spaces fund has no mention that donators money could and has been used to purchace shooting rights and yet there is no mention of this in the charity information pages unless you follow a line of links and even then its not that clear and almost certantly the majority of donators are unlikely to follow through that far. Is it lawful to give the impression that people are giving money to protect wildlife when in reality some is used to buy shooting rights. As for using the money for conservation work at Bracaster the marsh is a SSSI , SPA, SAC would need a licence of consent from NE which would be highly unlikely

as the management is geared to preserving the site as it is. So to say you are going to carry out conservation measures at brancaster is rubbish.

 

There is no need to answer any questions to me Elphinlad as i have never asked you any. The shooting at Brancaster is already being held by wildfowling clubs so what possible excuse could your club have in muscling in on the wildfowling sport of others.

Edited by anser2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 473
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

 

Dont worry I am not out to argue with you as to be honest I am not as up to speed with the situation as some are.

I will point out though as an observer the language and terms that are used by your gang are inflamatory to say the least and dont in my opinion help your cause.

 

Regards

 

H

Agree harrycatcat1. I don't really understand the whole situation but I, in my opinion, feel a real air of arrogance from some.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Late Mums employer has a House in Burnham Overy Staithe.... garden backs on to fields which she owns and the creek..

 

We have a holiday there every couple of years..she lets me shoot on her land down here in Glos and has said any time I want to go duck or goose shooting on her land up there too just go...

 

trouble is its a 4 hour drive. !

Edited by Fisherman Mike
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Totally agree, making comments like this on an open forum is not going to help your cause, I would have thought a committee member of any club should be above making threats to anyone that may not agree with their opinion and to put it in writing is unbelievable.

 

We don't need to worry about the Rspb or anyone other anti shooting groups the sport is being destroyed by constant bickering from within.

 

Just remember divided we fall ...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

If its arrogance to want to open the sport to as many people as possible whilst at the same time making sure we have controls in place to make sure areas are not overshot instead of guarding a select few policy by putting as many obstacles in the way as possible, then I guess KWCA are arrogant. However given the comments made by a few who appear to only have their own interest at heart and of course that of exclusive clubs who have little real credence to control such matters, I guess we'll carry on and let history judge our actions. There is mention in a post asking if the KWCA would have made these moves if the clubs were BASC affiliated. I personally was unaware that they weren't, however it would make little difference to me although one would hope that affiliated clubs would have a much more open mind. There are also comments on divided we fall. One would have to ask why any Wildfowling club would not be affiliated to BASC in this day and age. Perhaps thats another example of being united in sport.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

One day all wildfowling will be banned anyway..its going to happen..theres no justification for it...none of them are pest species...many are in decline...most are migratory...even the humble Mallard is under threat.

 

Duck and goose is cheap enough in the supermarket.

 

You would all be better off making hay while the sun shines.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Elphinlad you have sumed it up, don't question what KWCA or A.Jarrett do because as you say (Let me add my support to DNT and let me also declare an interest, as I am a KWCA committee member, a trustee of Wild Spaces Fund and company secretary of East Coast Sporting Ltd. I am also a solicitor so don't get legal with me unless you really know your stuff.

you don't even like people to have an opinion if it is diffrent to yours.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

If you live more than an hour's cycle ride from a wildfowling area, I don't see how you can know enough about the place and current conditions to do the activity justice. I went to Kirton Marsh once about 45 years ago and found it strewn with the bodies of Gulls, Shellducks and homing pigeons. People who can afford to travel for hours in cars for a flight, don't seem to want to go home without having a shot at something. Like my old dad used to say. "The motor car has led to the ruination of the countryside".

Link to comment
Share on other sites

If its arrogance to want to open the sport to as many people as possible whilst at the same time making sure we have controls in place to make sure areas are not overshot instead of guarding a select few policy by putting as many obstacles in the way as possible, then I guess KWCA are arrogant. However given the comments made by a few who appear to only have their own interest at heart and of course that of exclusive clubs who have little real credence to control such matters, I guess we'll carry on and let history judge our actions. There is mention in a post asking if the KWCA would have made these moves if the clubs were BASC affiliated. I personally was unaware that they weren't, however it would make little difference to me although one would hope that affiliated clubs would have a much more open mind. There are also comments on divided we fall. One would have to ask why any Wildfowling club would not be affiliated to BASC in this day and age. Perhaps thats another example of being united in sport.

As I have repeatedly said DNT, I have never objected to others buying shares, just a club with 500 members buying what has previously only excercised by individuals, so you will not allow more than 6 flights a season for each of your quarter shares and not allow them to shoot on the same day? This would then prevent additional pressure on the site etc, you seem to skirt round that issue, mine was not a case of only having my interest at heart I think I have already said that numerous times, also thank you for confirming that you would have taken the rights whether they were BASC affiliated clubs or not, I hope all club secretaries and chairmen in UK wildfowling clubs are now sitting up and listening, as you have said you will take their shooting if you do not like the way they run their club, "and have an open mind", to finally add why should a club be forced to join BASC? Last time I looked I believed we lived in a democracy not to be dictated to by those who think they know better and say we should all be BASC members, it's called choice I believe. Yes I am a BASC member but it's through choice not being told by someone else that I have to be.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

One day all wildfowling will be banned anyway..its going to happen..theres no justification for it...none of them are pest species...many are in decline...most are migratory...even the humble Mallard is under threat.

 

Duck and goose is cheap enough in the supermarket.

 

You would all be better off making hay while the sun shines.

Fishing will go the same way too if anglers are complacent about it ....

Elphinlad you have sumed it up, don't question what KWCA or A.Jarrett do because as you say (Let me add my support to DNT and let me also declare an interest, as I am a KWCA committee member, a trustee of Wild Spaces Fund and company secretary of East Coast Sporting Ltd. I am also a solicitor so don't get legal with me unless you really know your stuff.

you don't even like people to have an opinion if it is diffrent to yours.

Nope, read my words. You are welcome to your opinion - I am just giving notice that I am a legal expert.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

If you live more than an hour's cycle ride from a wildfowling area, I don't see how you can know enough about the place and current conditions to do the activity justice. I went to Kirton Marsh once about 45 years ago and found it strewn with the bodies of Gulls, Shellducks and homing pigeons. People who can afford to travel for hours in cars for a flight, don't seem to want to go home without having a shot at something. Like my old dad used to say. "The motor car has led to the ruination of the countryside".

Times change for all of us. The countryside was made by people - it is not in its natural state - and it continues to be made by people.

 

The Commons Registration Act changed common rights too.

 

None of us can stop the clock, and it wouldn't be right for our descendants if we did. And its still a free country and we all have the right to live in and travel to all parts of our country.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Must admit it does seem a very complicated way of doing business and does seem to be very much smoke and mirrors, a lot of things are legal in business but morrally/ethically corrupt!!

It does very much seem to be a case of 'we know best follow our lead or else': do u honestly believe ur the only folk to have seen the light.

Pushing up sporting rates so that only ur self's or the RSpb can afford them may suit u, but u can't honestly expect the locals to be happy about it. Of course if a landowner hears of massive rents being paid he wants some, otherwise he would still be happy with a bottle or 2.

 

If i was a wildfowling chairman i would have big reservations about asking basc for advice wether or not the conflict of intrest is real i have no idea, but it certainly looks like it from the outside

And the way u go on on hear does nothing to help ur cause.

 

 

I am so glad i live so far away from Kent and the KWCA.

I'm quite old fashioned and believe locals look after local things better, it's not in there interest to shoot out a roost or constantly shoot at out of range geese as it makes it harder for them in the future, occasional/day visitors do not and will not have the same bond/affection for the area and shooting too hard/out of range will never ever affect them again

Link to comment
Share on other sites

There was a time KWA and its management held my respect for the manner they secured shooting for its members within its own local area. It’s long since lost that respect and become an organisation that pushes ahead like a bull in a china shop, not caring for the wishes of other wildfowlers up and own the country. Having trod on a lot of toes it now finds its self having to defend its policy and seems surprised that all it is doing is not popular with many of its non members. Phrases such as dragging other wildfowlers into the modern world and taking on any shooting when ever it suits their business plan has raised alarm from many fowlers up and down the country. Their failure to provide clear simple answers to anyone who questions their policy are now be backed up with veiled statements such as “I am a solicitor so do not get legal with me “.

 

Stay within your traditional county boarders and perhaps you will regain some measure of respect , keep to your present policy and do not expect to be welcomed in other parts of the country. Though somehow I doubt if that worries you as long as you get your way.

 

Several years ago I warned “ we have a viper in our ranks “. Today I think this club is as serious threat to my wildfowling as the RSPB.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Times change for all of us. The countryside was made by people - it is not in its natural state - and it continues to be made by people.

 

It continues to be ruined by people. Mostly by people with more money than sense, and people who earn their money in towns. Back in what someone called 'the bad old days' there were about half a dozen chaps on our patch who used to shoot 2-300 duck a year each. They all lived within walking distance of the shore. Since the 1968 act, clubs have taken over the shooting and now 50+ members shoot about 300 between the lot of them. Times have changed, but not for the better.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Fishing will go the same way too if anglers are complacent about it ....

Nope, read my words. You are welcome to your opinion - I am just giving notice that I am a legal expert.

I hope you are better with all things legal than you are at modesty!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Cant

Fishing will go the same way too if anglers are complacent about it ....

Nope, read my words. You are welcome to your opinion - I am just giving notice that I am a legal expert.

You claim to be a solicitor and legal expert, I suggest you pick up Oxford dictionary and look up solicitor. (A member of the legal profession formerly one competent to advice clients and instruct barristers but not appearing as an advocate except in certain lower courts). My nephew is a barrister and sees himself as an expert but not you so try again and don't kid a kidder.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I wasn't going to get involved in this thread but... :oops:
I have become so infuriated by KWCA's complete disregard for the interest of anything but themselves, their business plan, and their expansion. This in its self is not infuriating but the way they try and sell it as conservation and keeping land in shooting, not taking shooting from other clubs, you are talking on this forum as if you are starting to believe your own lies and propaganda.
I voted for Alan in the basc elections, I used to like what kent were trying to achieve, I thought I shared your initial vision, but no more. Kent need to give them selves a good look in the mirror before they continue on their path.

And to top it all off a solicitor is calling himself a legal expert, well that begs the question why are you still a solicitor??!! (rhetorical question)
Rant over.

 

I don't want to offend any solicitors with this post, it is a respectable career. *Not the view of clubs in fenland !!. :whistling:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Let me add my support to DNT and let me also declare an interest, as I am a KWCA committee member, a trustee of Wild Spaces Fund and company secretary of East Coast Sporting Ltd. I am also a solicitor so don't get legal with me unless you really know your stuff.

 

There are no behing the scenes dealings, insider trading or anything like that between KWCA and BASC. See also Alan Jarrett's post above. To use a common phrase -"end of"!

 

KWCA membership is open to all genuine fowlers and you don't have to live in Kent. We aren't a closed shop unlike some, as access to our membership isn't a matter of having to know someone already in the club or living locally or waiting to fill dead mens shoes and all our members have equal access to all of our shooting grounds.

 

Wild Spaces Fund has always been associated with KWCA since KWCA set it up as their conservation arm. A few years ago, we turned it into a registered charity and it now operates at arm's length from KWCA with independent trustees handling anything where KWCA is the other party. Its objects are conservation but of course friendly to wildfowling and we conservation manage 6 reserves in Kent which are owned by KWCA. We also intend to carry out relevant conservation activities at Brancaster, though as it is common land, those activities obviously can't be of the same nature/intensity as the 6 reserves which are exclusive to us. WSF has its own website and Facebook page.

 

East Coast Sporting Ltd is in effect a wholly owned subsidiary of KWCA - as KWCA is a club and thus not a legal person in its own right it can't be a member of ECS itself, so there are nominee shareholders for the KWCA.

 

In answer to Anser2, I've donated to various fundraising activities of BASC in recent years for the benefit of wildfowling across the country and I've also donated money of my own to Wild Spaces Fund and GWCT, as well as various angling bodies for conservation activities.

 

KWCA intends to exercise the shooting rights associated with the rights of WSF and ECS consistent with what an individual holder would do, so you aren't going to be flooded with KWCA members shooting there.

 

With regard to the commons, I've now seen loads of applications to transfer rights or shares in rights via official notifications from Norfolk County Council and I guess others of you who are also common rights holders will have seen them too. There seems to be a flourishing activity in transferring and recently one of those I saw involved a transfer from a rights holder giving an address in Australia. If you have any legitimate complaint about us in Kent acquiring rights (and I don't think you can have any beyond sour grapes), you should be going nuclear about someone in Australia having rights there! Would you rather the rights that are put on the market are bought by true wildfowlers, or would you rather have a bunch of rich City boys or even the RSPB as co-owners?

*Behind ;)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

So the term expert is something to do with the legal profession? Next time I visit my poor old dad in his nursing home I must tell him this as he always said an expert means something different...he said ex is an has been and a spert is a drip under pressure. I spent many years believing this.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I am also a solicitor so don't get legal with me unless you really know your stuff.

 

I am curious on three counts:

 

1. Why you felt it necessary to state your profession?

 

2. Why that is then followed up with what is effectively a challenge to other posters?

 

3. What area of law you specialise in?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I never said people should be forced to join BASC or any other organisation for that matter, I simply in this day and age don't understand why they wouldn't, even if it was only for the insurance. Also as Alan posted BASC and others are fighting for all shooters (members or not) and everybody benefits from their success. So please come on show some support!

On the point of taking BASC affiliated clubs shooting, I thought I made it clear in my earlier posts that I wouldn't expect to take shooting from anybody, and I have repeatedly said give me evidence of where we have done this. We simply took on shooting rights that were offered to us after the owners and the club failed to reach an agreement and in the case of Brancaster/Burnham purchased rights that were not being used by anyone. This whole issue started after we had stood by watching land leave shooting and going to the conservation bodies in many cases with no challenge from within the sport. Some on here have even stated that they would rather land went to non shooting organisations than have us or I presume any other outside group come into an area. I would have thought all shooters would have realised that was another nail in the coffin. Some say the likes of the RSPB have good relationships with shooting clubs and rightly state examples of shared leases etc to support their point of view. I say again this only happens where the Conservation groups have little alternative or vice versa from the hunting point of view. If you want evidence of what's really going on look no further than the recently publicised rally by LACS at which RSPB were there to support, along with continued blaming of shooters for all persecution of birds. If after all of this you are still happy to cosy up with these groups, then I fear for the future shooting of all hunters. In the meantime BASC, CA and other like minded clubs/groups will continue to stem the flow as best we can including unpalatable alliances with whoever we need to if it's a last resort.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
 Share

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...