ollie Posted June 24, 2014 Author Report Share Posted June 24, 2014 Kent: the problem I have with changing the routine is that both myself and my wife work 9-5. My wife will be off on Maternity leave from middle of August, but I would like to try and work out a solution before then. Changing the kennel isn't an option as my garden ain't that big. She will, however, be moving into her own run soon, we have concreted an area for this, but this is in the same area as the existing run. Looking at the O post, it sounds like it's more than the key in the door or the sight of you causing the yapping. She has been rewarded for doing this at some point, even if you don't realise it. Try a walky talky in the kennel run but make sure you have a command for making her quiet.."shut up", "quiet" etc in a growling voice. Get her knowing that that means belt up. Bellow the same words in the same way down the walky talky into the kennel run BEFORE she even thinks about making a noise. Don't leave it until it's too late and she starts barking. If you can see her in the kennel from one of your windows, go to the window and growl at her "shut up/quiet" even when she is/before she gets the chance to think about barking. This could help. I was always under the impression that when a dog started barking you weren't meant to acknowledge it, as this was giving the dog attention. When the dog does something wrong a firm no normally does the trick, so I suppose this could work. The intercom thing is quite a good idea, know an ex keeper who always hung a chain/rattly tin on his kennel door and tied a bit of string to it so if a dog started barking he could pull the string and rattle the tin/chain and that distraction was enough to stop the dogs from barking. Know another pro trainer with a remote door bell he uses in a similar way. Even my water balloons are more a distraction than actually a physical punishment, now on the rare times i throw 1 u can hear the dog running for his sleeping box as soon as he sees the balloon coming over garage roof, doubt many of my balloons land anywhere near him now but the sight of them still seem's to work. I reckon 1 or 2 balloons might work/same as a hose fairly quickly if not a yapping dog at other times. It doesn't sound like u have a noisey dog as such just 1 that has developed an annoying habit, that was the idea of suggesting leaving a bone in with it to try and break the habit and possibly the dog will forget about it barking I think wot ur doing working in the garden and with the other dog out is a good thing but it may not solve ur problem as like kent? said it possibly doesn't link the 2 things But like most things a decent trainer who can actually see ur problem will always be able to give better advice than someone over the net, the problem u will have is need to get ur trainer at ur house at/before ur dog starts to bark ie 6-7am. Good luck with it. I take it the other dog is not bothering him, pushing him out sleeping box or pup wanting to play with other dog and it wants to stay in sleeping box? The other dog is not bothering her. If anything the pup torments the Cocker & the Cocker puts up with it all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scotslad Posted June 24, 2014 Report Share Posted June 24, 2014 A sharp low no, growl Oi as soon as start barking followed by a 'quiet' until it knows wot the quiet command means, if it doesn't know the barking is upsetting u he doesn't know any better and has no reason to stop Can u see the pup unseen when its barking? Seen pups barking in past and had a wee nosey wot there up to and barking at the older dog to come out of sleeping box or off the top off it to play with them. Just thought it may be that? Possibly alter the time u feed it at nite? ie later on so not so hungry first thing, but to be honest doubt it is actually hungry but just has got in the habit of barking first thing u come up and feed it. Possibly try going up and letting it out but not feeding it? Loads of things u could try to attempt to break the habitat, they may or may not work thou Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted June 24, 2014 Report Share Posted June 24, 2014 What can I say you either use well timed aversion or fail, the rest of the ideas are all about not allowing a behaviour link to form. Problem is it sounds totally like it has and the dog has you well trained. Now you either make the commitment and forget the excuses or fail and then what do you do with the dog ........? If I was scared of someone breaking in while the hose was in place I should sleep in the kitchen so I could be ready or get a collar use it for this job then get rid! The things are not cruel and they should be used to inflict retribution, I have tested them on myself before each use. I don't keep one because frankly you hit a problem and are too tempted to use them as a crutch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scotslad Posted June 24, 2014 Report Share Posted June 24, 2014 Final thought, is ur dog clean in the kennel/run? Guessing it has been crated up until now, so possibly really needs the toilet and not emptying himself in run, so barking to be let out? Just a thought I know i'm harping on about water balloons but it is basically the same as the hose technique (which never worked for me due to where kennels are) but more adaptable and more instant if u do it right, and timing is every thing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted June 24, 2014 Report Share Posted June 24, 2014 Final thought, is ur dog clean in the kennel/run? Guessing it has been crated up until now, so possibly really needs the toilet and not emptying himself in run, so barking to be let out? Just a thought I know i'm harping on about water balloons but it is basically the same as the hose technique (which never worked for me due to where kennels are) but more adaptable and more instant if u do it right, and timing is every thing Your correct on isolating the other issues actually creating it but surely the cure is the same once established? Water balloons whatever you get it and its just another aversion training tool, if you can get that first bark nailed with a well placed water bomb its spot on! Problem is some dogs like water I can do nothing with a hose if the lab is out LOL, have to lock him in the car just to hose the kennel out! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scotslad Posted June 24, 2014 Report Share Posted June 24, 2014 I know wot u mean. I know with my mutts i can open door walk quietly up steps and open all the run doors and there still sleeping inside there boxes, most useless guard dogs ever infact have to walk down garden a bit so don't give them a fright Unless ur very noisey opening door/keys in lock etc i would doubt that is actually the trigger. But u need to let pupp know it is not desirable with a soft dog that may be enough if not well engrained and if not then some aversion training. That pointer of mine goes mad really strange noises too, if i take other dogs out but leave him in run (esp if in shooting gear) nothing i have done has made any difference, so i have to alter how i take other dogs out take him out first and box him in motor then get the rest in and then take him back to his run and feed him and give him a bone/kong, never makes a noise. B loody pointers/hpr's are hard work Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ollie Posted June 24, 2014 Author Report Share Posted June 24, 2014 Cheers for all the replies I really do appreciate them. A sharp low no, growl Oi as soon as start barking followed by a 'quiet' until it knows wot the quiet command means, if it doesn't know the barking is upsetting u he doesn't know any better and has no reason to stop Can u see the pup unseen when its barking? Seen pups barking in past and had a wee nosey wot there up to and barking at the older dog to come out of sleeping box or off the top off it to play with them. Just thought it may be that? Possibly alter the time u feed it at nite? ie later on so not so hungry first thing, but to be honest doubt it is actually hungry but just has got in the habit of barking first thing u come up and feed it. Possibly try going up and letting it out but not feeding it? Loads of things u could try to attempt to break the habitat, they may or may not work thou I can see the pup unseen. Normally first thing the pup is standing on it's hind legs against the wire looking towards the back door & bouncing up and down. What can I say you either use well timed aversion or fail, the rest of the ideas are all about not allowing a behaviour link to form. Problem is it sounds totally like it has and the dog has you well trained. Now you either make the commitment and forget the excuses or fail and then what do you do with the dog ........?If I was scared of someone breaking in while the hose was in place I should sleep in the kitchen so I could be ready or get a collar use it for this job then get rid! The things are not cruel and they should be used to inflict retribution, I have tested them on myself before each use. I don't keep one because frankly you hit a problem and are too tempted to use them as a crutch. I am not completely against getting the collar, I just have never used one and I have heard a lot of people don't think they are ethical. Final thought, is ur dog clean in the kennel/run? Guessing it has been crated up until now, so possibly really needs the toilet and not emptying himself in run, so barking to be let out? Just a thought I know i'm harping on about water balloons but it is basically the same as the hose technique (which never worked for me due to where kennels are) but more adaptable and more instant if u do it right, and timing is every thing It empties itself in the run, so it is not that it wants out to go to the toilet. I think I may try the water balloon trick. Did you throw it from somewhere the dog could see you? So if I was up early enough I could go straight outside and throw the balloon at the first yap? Your correct on isolating the other issues actually creating it but surely the cure is the same once established? Water balloons whatever you get it and its just another aversion training tool, if you can get that first bark nailed with a well placed water bomb its spot on! Problem is some dogs like water I can do nothing with a hose if the lab is out LOL, have to lock him in the car just to hose the kennel out! This dog is not a great fan of water, so I think the water balloon could work. I really do appreciate all your ideas, hope something works. I can put up with the yapping but I don't think the neighbours will. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazooka Posted June 24, 2014 Report Share Posted June 24, 2014 (edited) I was always under the impression that when a dog started barking you weren't meant to acknowledge it, as this was giving the dog attention. When the dog does something wrong a firm no normally does the trick, so I suppose this could work. I agree. But if it's a negative "attention or reward", i.e a retribution the dog will not see it as a positive reward. But, to do that it has to be instantaneous so it understand the growl comes as it's committing the crime. If you say "shut up sweetheart" in a puffy voice then yes, that will be rewarding the dog for it's unwanted behavior. Once the dog connects the growl to keeping quiet then you can growl at it to shut up before it starts, that reinforces the behavior you are looking for before the unwanted behavior starts. The trick is to nip it before the thought enters the dogs head, that way you should see an improvement. Anyway, good luck with it. Edited June 24, 2014 by Bazooka Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scotslad Posted June 24, 2014 Report Share Posted June 24, 2014 (edited) Bazooka has it spot on above from as soon as dog arrives or shortly afterwards. In theory it will depend wot u want to achieve and wot u want the dog to associate with. I throw from out of sight instantly after bark/squek i never gave any command etc, when dog was quiet i praised it from out of sight in a high voice. I wanted the dog to associate barking with the balloon and nothing else. Infact Possibly in ur case don't even praise as that could be his reward/attention so getting wet is worth it? (sure others will have an opinion on that) Mine got a bit fly and would only squek once or twice towards the end then be quiet for ages trying to listen for me if i was back in the house so odd times i would trigger it if i was in postion so he learns. Far too clever a dog for me U could add in ur quiet command but it will them associate ur quiet command then getting the 'balloon and then praise. If u look up aversion training it should give u a better idea than wot i have written above Like i said it has made a big difference with my GWP in my kennel but he still has it in him and there is other triggers that can set him off occasionally but i think it is so deep in the breed no ammount of aversion or any other training would help, just as a fox hound/beagle will always be more prone to barking/speaking than a gundog With a more normal gundog i'm sure it would work very well, but the longer any problem goes on for the more ingained it will become and so harder to fix Edited June 24, 2014 by scotslad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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