al4x Posted July 19, 2014 Report Share Posted July 19, 2014 It's a light sedation just google hip scoring dogs Southampton and you will get a feel for how busy they are. Light sedation and very good X-rays and cheap what's not to like Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apache Posted July 19, 2014 Report Share Posted July 19, 2014 You can't take hip x-rays with a light sedation. There is no formal definition of the degree of sedation, but if a dog is free to get up and walk way then it's not lightly sedated. If you lightly sedate a dog and try and get it into the prescribed position for hip scoring it will get up and walk off - unless it is been forcibly held down. 100% of the time. The position is uncomfortable. They'll be giving them a good whack of sedative and reversing it. Not risk free. Promise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turbo33 Posted July 19, 2014 Report Share Posted July 19, 2014 (edited) Apache, I admire your patience and taking the time to explain in detail, the correct procedures involved. Sadly, reading most if not all the replies, you are completely wasting your time. Clearly, they all know far more about veterinary science than you do and their business acumen would be the envy of Lord Sugar Edited July 19, 2014 by turbo33 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kyska Posted July 19, 2014 Report Share Posted July 19, 2014 I find odd the vet here is getting a smashing from people who don't know, it's not as if he's touting for business, just giving advice 'off line' Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turbo33 Posted July 19, 2014 Report Share Posted July 19, 2014 I find odd the vet here is getting a smashing from people who don't know, it's not as if he's touting for business, just giving advice 'off line' Unfortunately, there is more than a smattering of Neolithic man on pw Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJL4 Posted July 19, 2014 Author Report Share Posted July 19, 2014 Apache, I admire your patience and taking the time to explain in detail, the correct procedures involved. Sadly, reading most if not all the replies, you are completely wasting your time. Clearly, they all know far more about veterinary science than you do and their business acumen would be the envy of Lord Sugar I'd like to think your remark is not directed at everyone who has posted on this thread ..... ? DaveL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sambu13 Posted July 20, 2014 Report Share Posted July 20, 2014 Ask questions. If the vet is hostile and doesn't want to answer them ask yourself why! Personally we'd always happily talk to people about these things. cheers, perhaps we will have to come to you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turbo33 Posted July 20, 2014 Report Share Posted July 20, 2014 I'd like to think your remark is not directed at everyone who has posted on this thread ..... ? DaveL No its not directed at everyone. I am not a Vet, but I work very closely with them on a regular basis and a member of the family is a vet. I find these Vet bashing threads quite offensive with the only redeeming aspect, that its usually by the narrow minded. Apache has tried to explain why there is a cost variation from practice to practice, equipment, skills etc. He has also attempted to put forward the reason why sedation is not acceptable in these circumstances. If an individual wants the best veterinary care for their animal, it is going to cost more than some alternatives like everything in life. It is up to the individual to ask the Vet what is involved with a procedure, complications and expected outcome and then make their own personal decision over which one to use. Personally, if I had a consultation with a vet, about the above, and was told, we can do a GA which will involve higher expenses, but a better result, or can sedate the dog which will cause him a considerable degree of discomfort and less satisfactory xrays, I would take the former route. If spending money on good veterinary care is a begrudged expense, don't have a dog! I suspect a lot of these threads are started by individuals ignorantly thinking that vets just pop £600 in their back pocket and finish work at lunchtime to polish their Porche! If Vets fees really bother people that much, just ask about the expenses involved in running a practice annually for a change, not for the hour your dog was on the table, and you might just think how reasonable the fees are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharlieT Posted July 20, 2014 Report Share Posted July 20, 2014 Seems to me Apache is a good straight vet, who cares about his profession and runs the sort of practice I would use. Unfortunately, like many professionals that post on forums and do their best to help and offer advice to members, he is sometimes unfairly forced into a corner to defend his profession. In my view, the major problem vets now face is their customers expectations. As veterinary science advances, practices are expected to treat in house every condition imaginable and have at their disposal every conceivable piece of equipment known to man. This puts unimaginable costs on todays modern practice, a cost that must be borne by every customer. There is no doubt that the pet insurance industry, via claims, has made this possible and given pet owners the ability to demand and expect the sort of treatment once only available to humans. It could be argued that it is us, the customer, who is to blame. Rather than saying sorry vet, that's just too expensive; I'm not paying that to treat a dog, cat, gerbil or whatever, please put it down. We, because of insurance, don't care what the bill is so we have the animal treated. However, I will end by saying that years of observation have shown me that the money in vet med seems to be made in urban small animal practices not rural large animal ones. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazooka Posted July 20, 2014 Report Share Posted July 20, 2014 No its not directed at everyone. I am not a Vet, but I work very closely with them on a regular basis and a member of the family is a vet. I find these Vet bashing threads quite offensive with the only redeeming aspect, that its usually by the narrow minded. Apache has tried to explain why there is a cost variation from practice to practice, equipment, skills etc. He has also attempted to put forward the reason why sedation is not acceptable in these circumstances. If an individual wants the best veterinary care for their animal, it is going to cost more than some alternatives like everything in life. It is up to the individual to ask the Vet what is involved with a procedure, complications and expected outcome and then make their own personal decision over which one to use. Personally, if I had a consultation with a vet, about the above, and was told, we can do a GA which will involve higher expenses, but a better result, or can sedate the dog which will cause him a considerable degree of discomfort and less satisfactory xrays, I would take the former route. If spending money on good veterinary care is a begrudged expense, don't have a dog! I suspect a lot of these threads are started by individuals ignorantly thinking that vets just pop £600 in their back pocket and finish work at lunchtime to polish their Porche! If Vets fees really bother people that much, just ask about the expenses involved in running a practice annually for a change, not for the hour your dog was on the table, and you might just think how reasonable the fees are. They normally get their butlers to do that . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turbo33 Posted July 20, 2014 Report Share Posted July 20, 2014 They normally get their butlers to do that . You're getting Vets confused with Farriers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted July 21, 2014 Report Share Posted July 21, 2014 I find odd the vet here is getting a smashing from people who don't know, it's not as if he's touting for business, just giving advice 'off line' I'd just add a little background, i grew up with a vet as a father and so have seen 30 years of "improvements" of what was a 1 man practice for a long time so we were pretty involved in day to day help. Some are improvements and some aren't I don't think some advances are better for the animal than when the vet used to suggest euthanasia rather than say chemotherapy. The example I gave earlier when the vet with a years experience would have killed my dog was the absolute truth as she wouldn't listen to what had happened and stop treating the dog like a road accident which it wasn't. I have in and drove the dog the 100 miles to him and he did make the difference. With regard to hips the average vet won't do many a month, the one mine went to has an excellent radiographer who can do them under a light sedation whatever the resident vet says its fact. She does a couple of days a week just doing hip X-rays, dogs sedated by a vet prior and they are queued up ready so she does a serious number each day. It's a very good and cost effective option for a procedure that your own vet may charge a serious amount for. He of course has to pay for the machine and people getting a lot less use and economies of scale do crop up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apache Posted July 21, 2014 Report Share Posted July 21, 2014 dogs sedated by a vet prior and they are queued up ready so she does a serious number each day. So there are lots of sedated animals that cannot all be monitored properly. This is sounding more interesting all the time. (wouldn't want a dog of mine sedated and queuing) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turbo33 Posted July 21, 2014 Report Share Posted July 21, 2014 So there are lots of sedated animals that cannot all be monitored properly. This is sounding more interesting all the time. (wouldn't want a dog of mine sedated and queuing) Ah but its cheap Apache, and that's all that seems to matter to some Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted July 22, 2014 Report Share Posted July 22, 2014 Ah but its cheap Apache, and that's all that seems to matter to some And highly recommended by a stack of breeders some who travel hours for both the quality of X-rays and the treatment of the dog. Just google them and you will see how widespread their customer base is. The fact it's cheap is fairly irrelevant I preferred to use someone who was going to sedate only and with a top notch setup I'd suggest both the radiographer and machine were far better than most vets have access to and why they do a fair percentage of all the X-rays submitted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apache Posted July 22, 2014 Report Share Posted July 22, 2014 Yes ok - I concede - it's all a con. All vets do is charge what we can get away with, cheap is always better. If you want to know anything about dogs ask a breeder (or maybe a taxi driver) they know everything. Don't even start me on the cartel of dog food that we are using to make pets sick to line our pockets (there's backhanders, holidays in the Bahamas etc) All those unnecessary vaccinations............ [Think I will bow out of this thread now as I am clearly wasting my breath] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted July 22, 2014 Report Share Posted July 22, 2014 You aren't it's a bad example pricing wise as you have a procedure that isn't that common for the average vet to do. Few people breed and fewer do health tests so I have no idea how many you do 1 a week or 1 a month. Vets have to make money and on those numbers you have to charge out the cost of the machine and associated health and safety costs. Versus someone set up to do loads and pricing so they get loads to do its a bit like comparing macdonalds to a Michelin star restaurant. The only things you can see here are the markup on the bva fees being very different from cost as I was charged to well over 100% that some seem to be. The breeder I know who took mine happens to have no consideration for cost for her dogs yet uses this vet for hip scoring usually with a couple of dogs a year and knows they take good X-rays and look after the dogs well. Unlike our usual practice who seem to struggle with much other than general procedures and try and talk you into neutering as a pre cursor to every visit. With other procedures you will often get referred to a specialist but scoring it seems rare. Instead you get a massive range of fees which to the outsider are difficult to justify. At the end of the day it's customer choice but very different to having an animal requiring treatment Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turbo33 Posted July 22, 2014 Report Share Posted July 22, 2014 (edited) Yes ok - I concede - it's all a con. All vets do is charge what we can get away with, cheap is always better. If you want to know anything about dogs ask a breeder (or maybe a taxi driver) they know everything. Don't even start me on the cartel of dog food that we are using to make pets sick to line our pockets (there's backhanders, holidays in the Bahamas etc) All those unnecessary vaccinations............ [Think I will bow out of this thread now as I am clearly wasting my breath] Edited July 22, 2014 by turbo33 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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