scotslad Posted August 10, 2014 Report Share Posted August 10, 2014 If u bought it as a pup i would be 99% certain it is not stolen. Would imagine DNA testing will be the same for dogs as humans so u would need to have to have 2 suspected parents (sire and dam) to compare against ur pups DNA, all very Jermemy kyle. U could not test a dog against a datbase to find its parents. If the breeder owned both sire and dam and had more other dogs and bitches kc registered (or un kc registered)the pup could of been from any of them u will never know and sold with the better papers No reason wot ever the breeding why any dog can not be used for work if the training is there Ur thoughts on breeding should change from unlikely to never thou. It's all part of being a respomsible dog owner,I have a cracking springer great working dog that i would love to breed from and have been asked to use him to line bitches, but has an undescended testicle so would be irrespnsible to use him. Its a shame when u have a deent dog but if u can't guarantee the lnage or sure it has no family health issues u can't bred from it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PERCE Posted August 10, 2014 Report Share Posted August 10, 2014 It could be that the bitch was bred twice in one year. Only one litter a year can be registered with KC, . I think you ought to spend some time browsing around myKC & you'll find that this is not true. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted August 10, 2014 Report Share Posted August 10, 2014 In this case forget tracing the history, if you wanted to do some digging I would look for litters of pups stolen or an in pup bitch around when yours would have been born. DNA tests will do nothing as so few dogs are tested and you have no information for the kc to go on. Did you see the pup with her mum? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leeds chimp Posted August 10, 2014 Report Share Posted August 10, 2014 The 'breeder' apparently made £80k out of this extensive scam. All I'm speculating about is the truth about the origins of the lovely lab currently laying on my feet (mums away for w/e) ie does anyone know of anyway of finding out her origins? I sort of hoped someone might have a few bright ideas or had been here before. and the rest...more like £180k.... The breeder is in prison. The first pedigree was a fraud as far as we know. KC have issued what I suppose you would say is a one generation pedigree ie if we chose to breed (unlikely) there will be no history. I am curious to find out some if not all of pups history. Wondered if anyone had seen similar - you regularly see cheap 'pedigree' dogs in local advertising and I'm sure we are not the first to have this puzzle - if you believe the court finding this lady (criminal) must have sold thousands of pups in our area. I understand many of them were poorly, a few did not survive but the one we have seems to have good parentage. Some of the little tricks I've noticed - don't forget wife has only trained standard obedience - are: when wife baking pup will check out food opportunities standing briefly on hind legs looking for items near edge of work surface - she only pinches items if she can get away w/o any noise; we were gathering strawberries from our large fruit garden where pup has watched but never pinched fruit, however wife chucked away a damaged one which pup spotted, grabbed and then almost in the same movement pinch a large fruit (a bit of retraining has worked but take your eye off her and she edges towards fruit); on the beach she walked up to a small terrier but even before snarling started she jumped just far enough to avoid teeth (have noticed this perception of danger from her on three occasions now - telepathy?). Game finding excellent and she nearly grabbed a doe muntjac a couple of days ago - our two terriers didn't wind it, she did! As I said unlikely would even think about breeding. Just trying to find out a bit more about our pup. If anyone may have similar concerns EDP website has an article and photos of the old bag responsible. She didn't look quite so bad when we picked up pup although the jodhpurs on her fat **** was not a good look!! She just came over as a busy mum with kids, stables and a couple of nice pups but then it appears there may several hundred owners with same concerns. Anyway that's it from me - have exhausted topic. Goodnight and goodby as they say. I know the case you are on about as I had a few dealing with her thru my work and know well about it..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loriusgarrulus Posted August 10, 2014 Report Share Posted August 10, 2014 (edited) osted Today, 11:07 AM loriusgarrulus, on 09 Aug 2014 - 10:42 PM, said: It could be that the bitch was bred twice in one year. Only one litter a year can be registered with KC, . I think you ought to spend some time browsing around myKC & you'll find that this is not true. My bitch has had 2 litters within a 12 month period, can I register the litter? The Kennel Club does not endorse this and would recommend at least a year is given between litters, however we do understand that in situations of accidents or if a bitch has irregular seasons, a second application will be accepted. Breeders who breed four or more litters per year must be licensed by their local authority. Breeders with fewer litters must also be licensed if they are carrying out a business of breeding dogs for sale.From the Breeding and Sale of Dogs (Welfare) Act 1999:Licensed breeders must: Not mate a bitch less than 12 months old. Not whelp more than six litters from a bitch (for litters born in 2012, the limit will be restricted to four litters). Not whelp two litters within a 12 month period from the same bitch. Keep accurate records. Not sell a puppy until it is at least eight weeks of age, other than to a keeper of a licensed pet shop or Scottish rearing establishment.http://www.thekennelclub.org.uk/registration/registering-your-pedigree-dog-litter/litter-registration-faqs/ Edited August 10, 2014 by loriusgarrulus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PERCE Posted August 10, 2014 Report Share Posted August 10, 2014 osted Today, 11:07 AM loriusgarrulus, on 09 Aug 2014 - 10:42 PM, said: My bitch has had 2 litters within a 12 month period, can I register the litter? The Kennel Club does not endorse this and would recommend at least a year is given between litters, however we do understand that in situations of accidents or if a bitch has irregular seasons, a second application will be accepted. Breeders who breed four or more litters per year must be licensed by their local authority. Breeders with fewer litters must also be licensed if they are carrying out a business of breeding dogs for sale. From the Breeding and Sale of Dogs (Welfare) Act 1999: Licensed breeders must: Not mate a bitch less than 12 months old. Not whelp more than six litters from a bitch (for litters born in 2012, the limit will be restricted to four litters). Not whelp two litters within a 12 month period from the same bitch. Keep accurate records. Not sell a puppy until it is at least eight weeks of age, other than to a keeper of a licensed pet shop or Scottish rearing establishment.http://www.thekennelclub.org.uk/registration/registering-your-pedigree-dog-litter/litter-registration-faqs/ As I posted get yourself on myKC & you'll find this is not what really happens Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loriusgarrulus Posted August 10, 2014 Report Share Posted August 10, 2014 Typical Kennel Club. Two different rules on the same site. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Proudly Posted August 10, 2014 Report Share Posted August 10, 2014 Its fine to breed from a 13 month old pup though? A bitch thats had 6 litters is not overbred? The KC is an absolute disgrace..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirty Harry Posted August 10, 2014 Report Share Posted August 10, 2014 If the breeder got 18 months they will be out in under a year so you could ask then. You could find out who her solicitor was and ask the question through them or go round to the house and ask whoever still lives there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazooka Posted August 10, 2014 Report Share Posted August 10, 2014 They can, and will, use common sense from time to time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigbird Posted August 11, 2014 Report Share Posted August 11, 2014 (edited) So, the KC has issued a one gen pedigree, OP? From MyKC it's very very easy to make yourself a Pedigree form just by tracing the dogs back. If you'd like to send me her registered name I'm happy to do that for you. Don't forget, just because a dog may be fantastically well bred doesn't mean it will make a FTCH and because it's not doesn't mean it won't, either. A lot of people on here will vouch that I bought a not fantastically bred ESS bitch pup as a 'practice' dog to train up and run on our shoot etc. This bitch has turned out to be better than many (if not all) of the FTCH x FtW or whatever pups we've bought subsequently and will be trialling this season if we get a run despite her nonedescript breeding. It must be frustrating not to know the truth, I'll give you that. Behaviours such as you mention are pretty common and more than certainly a case of reading body language more minute than the human senses can pick up in the case of the terrier. She certainly does sound like a super dog! Edited August 11, 2014 by bigbird Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazooka Posted August 11, 2014 Report Share Posted August 11, 2014 So, the KC has issued a one gen pedigree, OP? From MyKC it's very very easy to make yourself a Pedigree form just by tracing the dogs back. If you'd like to send me her registered name I'm happy to do that for you. Don't forget, just because a dog may be fantastically well bred doesn't mean it will make a FTCH and because it's not doesn't mean it won't, either. A lot of people on here will vouch that I bought a not fantastically bred ESS bitch pup as a 'practice' dog to train up and run on our shoot etc. This bitch has turned out to be better than many (if not all) of the FTCH x FtW or whatever pups we've bought subsequently and will be trialling this season if we get a run despite her nonedescript breeding. It must be frustrating not to know the truth, I'll give you that. Behaviours such as you mention are pretty common and more than certainly a case of reading body language more minute than the human senses can pick up in the case of the terrier. She certainly does sound like a super dog! What's her breeding and how old? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigbird Posted August 11, 2014 Report Share Posted August 11, 2014 (edited) 19 months old I think, I'll attach pedigree. Bitch line is weak, sire's line not too bad but we were not expecting what we got :) Edited August 11, 2014 by bigbird Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazooka Posted August 11, 2014 Report Share Posted August 11, 2014 (edited) Minstrel was an award winner & Donna a litter sister to a winner and FTCh...so, as I said in a thread months ago...the fact that black is in a pedigree does not mean there is a lack of trial blood. Forester is also a FTW and came from a litter that also had award winners. Bank note was from trialing animals as well. Minstrel went on to sire a litter to FTCh Churchview Abs in 2012. Your bitch is 20 months. (MB?) Edited August 11, 2014 by Bazooka Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigbird Posted August 11, 2014 Report Share Posted August 11, 2014 (edited) Yeh, I've written them on the pedigree since the photo was taken. It was still unexpected, though. I've forgotten what our point was now, Bazooka lol Yes, MB, you're right Methinks you're a MyKc addict like me Edited August 11, 2014 by bigbird Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazooka Posted August 12, 2014 Report Share Posted August 12, 2014 Yeh, I've written them on the pedigree since the photo was taken. It was still unexpected, though. I've forgotten what our point was now, Bazooka lol Yes, MB, you're right Methinks you're a MyKc addict like me Just remembered. "Nondescript breeding". The lack of red on a pedigree does not mean a dog is from 'run o the mill' dogs, 'steady away' dogs, 'shooting mans' dogs, or any other type of dogs you care to mention. Often, with working pedigrees, if you study them in detail, you will find in the very recent background of a particular dog, either a FTCh...FTW or a FTAW, however the presence of FTChampion written in red, does make doing any homework on a dog, much much easier. The lack of a KC pedigree certificate does not mean a dog is not capable of being every bit as good as the next dog. It just means that with no way of knowing the linage, it's only time, good training and the dogs good health and temperament, that will determine whether or not it's a dog worth A, using as a gundog B, keeping as a pet or C, passing on to someone else to run the gauntlet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.