Dog Training Collars

[evo]

has anyone ever used these and if so what are your thoughts,

 

Reason I,m asking is whilst walking my dog around yesterday waiting for the trainer to turn up, my springer decided to run off and totally ignored the recall and NO call and off he went to the side of the wood sniffing about,

 

I decided to walk in the opposite direction from him and when he realised I wasn,t there he came bounding back to me with his tail between his legs, he seems normally to do this if he spots another dog but only on very rare occasions,

 

my trainer turned up and I explained what had happened and he decided to put a collar on him and not too shock him but only on vibrate, we decided to walk around and see if he would run off again,,this he did and when I called NO and he ignored me again my trainer vibrated his collar and he jumped and ran strait back to me,,

 

we tried to see if he would do it again and he stuck by my side the whole session, he worked brilliantly lefts and rights , backs and recalled excellent, we could not fault him at all,

 

he,s really was eager to please, anyway took him out this morning and 5 mins into his training off he went again and did not recall, in the end I had to go and get him and put him on his lead, I did not shout at him as the last thing I want is him scared to come back if he does something wrong,

 

is it worth me getting one of these collars or should I just stick with his formal training which has been going excellent so far,its only this last week where he has started to disobey me

 

thoughts please on what you recommend

 

thanks in advance for any replies

 

atb Evo

[loriusgarrulus]

I had this problem with my setter ignoring recalls if he got a scent. I got a vibrate only collar from Ebay china and it cured him. Only needed to use it for a couple of weeks and his recall is fine now. Was under £12, but as was from China had to wait 3 weeks for it.

 

This was the one we got. 2 vibrate modes, peep noise and light flash.

 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/260912789912?_trksid=p2059210.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

[Mungler]

I got a zappy collar off here for our dog.

 

Long story short, if the dog (female cocker spaniel) gets offended she'll pee on a bed. It's an intermittent problem and difficult to predict. The incident that lead to the collar going on was the dog had been fed for the evening and we had finished our roast evening meal - I was stripping the carcass into the dogs bowl for her breakie the next day and of course she was pestering for her bowl now but was ignored by me.

 

I am soft on the dog but one seriously expensive memory foam mattress with no sheet protector I can see there's a time and a place for a zappy collar.

 

3 zaps later and the dog is 100% trained not to go upstairs and the collar has gone away. Clever dogs learn quick alright.

 

Should have done it years ago. Even the wife who soft as **** and was dead against it agrees.

[kent]

Get a new trainer! These things have their uses but this is not one of them. A dog has to "want" to come back and be conditioned to do so by reward and I don't always mean being bribed with edible treats.

 

BTW no such thing as 100% recall even the best need stopping first and try recalling a dog of a ripe bitch! Go and get the dog if you have any doubts don't start sending it a BUZZ

 

Collars shock, vibrate, squirty whatever are aversion tools and very good ones at that but to some "trainers" they are used as a crutch for a bad leg rather than a cure

[kent]

I got a zappy collar off here for our dog.

 

Long story short, if the dog (female cocker spaniel) gets offended she'll pee on a bed. It's an intermittent problem and difficult to predict. The incident that lead to the collar going on was the dog had been fed for the evening and we had finished our roast evening meal - I was stripping the carcass into the dogs bowl for her breakie the next day and of course she was pestering for her bowl now but was ignored by me.

 

I am soft on the dog but one seriously expensive memory foam mattress with no sheet protector I can see there's a time and a place for a zappy collar.

 

3 zaps later and the dog is 100% trained not to go upstairs and the collar has gone away. Clever dogs learn quick alright.

 

Should have done it years ago. Even the wife who soft as **** and was dead against it agrees.

 

Now that's aversion But letting the dog in your bedroom or allowing it to ever get on your bed is a whole new ballpark

[fenboy]

Get a new trainer! These things have their uses but this is not one of them. A dog has to "want" to come back and be conditioned to do so by reward and I don't always mean being bribed with edible treats.

 

BTW no such thing as 100% recall even the best need stopping first and try recalling a dog of a ripe bitch! Go and get the dog if you have any doubts don't start sending it a BUZZ

 

Collars shock, vibrate, squirty whatever are aversion tools and very good ones at that but to some "trainers" they are used as a crutch for a bad leg rather than a cure

 

But surely there is a difference between the dog coming back and ignoring the stop in the first place , the punishment would be for ignoring the stop not for a poor recall.

[Mungler]

Now that's aversion But letting the dog in your bedroom or allowing it to ever get on your bed is a whole new ballpark

The dog never was!

 

The dog would only ever sneak upstairs to pee on a bed when upset or slighted!

[fenboy]

The dog never was!

 

The dog would only ever sneak upstairs to pee on a bed when upset or slighted!

 

I do the same when the wife upsets me , always on her side though.

[Mungler]

Me too, I blame it on the dog though. Don't tell anyone or I'll get the collar.

[Zapp]

 

I do the same when the wife upsets me , always on her side though.

 

[birdsallpl]

Those of you who think it a good tool to use if necessary, do you think there is an age limit. Perhaps it may be beneficial on dogs up to 12 months or whatever but is detrimental to older dogs. The reason I ask this is that I have a 5 year old springer who will sit in the hide until told to 'get on' retrieve 9 times out of 10 but quite regularly he will run in sometimes taking the hide with him. I have been advised to use a coller in these instances but have so far persevered with running him down and dragging him back. Which is a ball ache and has'nt made much difference.

[scotslad]

I'm not aggainst the collars or even using them in a situation like that BUT u should not be sticking a collar straight on a dog a using it straight away. Any clever dog with a tiny bit of sense will very quickly associate the collar with the buzz and then only behave with the collar on, so creating a far bigger problem.

 

I bought 1 for my hpr but could never bring myself to use it, would put the dummy collar on for 2 week before but then bottle out and just muddle on with traditional methods.

When u actually read up on them and how they should be used properly they could be a great tool for some problems, but very commonly abused

 

Birds, I'm no expert on them but know people who have used them to stock break imported older stud dogs, so can work even with older dogs and these were very highly driven trialling dogs so very 'hot'

In ur case i think i would just resort to a corkscrew and lead so it knows it can't get away. I would say the reward is worth more than the punishment so thats why it keeps doing it.

As he gets better put 2 slip leads on, take 1 off making a big fuss leaving 2nd 1 on if he tries to run in will still be attached. As he progresses again just put the lead on lying on the ground etc

Even if he doesnae get much better the seconds it takes too take a slip lead off every now and again would be easier than rebuilding ur hide

[birdsallpl]

Thanks scotslad. I have been using a cork screw recently, it obviously stops him running in but on the occasions he has tried he gets himself over excited and starts to whimper which is even more annoying then running in.

Sometimes I feel like putting some number 6 up his Jacksy let alone a collar. LOL

[evo]

Get a new trainer! These things have their uses but this is not one of them. A dog has to "want" to come back and be conditioned to do so by reward and I don't always mean being bribed with edible treats.

 

BTW no such thing as 100% recall even the best need stopping first and try recalling a dog of a ripe bitch! Go and get the dog if you have any doubts don't start sending it a BUZZ

 

Collars shock, vibrate, squirty whatever are aversion tools and very good ones at that but to some "trainers" they are used as a crutch for a bad leg rather than a cure

kent,

 

I don't think I need a new trainer to be honest,,he has explained what to do and was merely showing me what the collar could do and it worked,,

 

as fenboy said, the stop is really the main thing he ignored and as you said about ripe bitch,,that happened and he totally ignored me when he smelt a bitch,,

 

my trainer has basically told me not to use a collar but to work with the dog and if he runs off to try the single whistle (stop/sit) if that does not work then the loud NO command if that doesn,t work then go and get him,, but if he turns when he is told to then he should be greeted with good lad/good boy and praised,,i do not anytime give him treats for doing as he,s told but I like to praise him and so far its been working perfect, it is just on the rare occasion that he just runs off and it always seems as if he is scenting,

 

atb Evo

[cocker boy]

If I had a dog that needed a shock collar I would get one. Simple as that. But the OP does not need a shock collar he needs a trainer. Not ANOTHER trainer because he hasn't got one in the first place. There are many many gundog "trainers" around. There are very very few good trainers around.

[evo]

If I had a dog that needed a shock collar I would get one. Simple as that. But the OP does not need a shock collar he needs a trainer. Not ANOTHER trainer because he hasn't got one in the first place. There are many many gundog "trainers" around. There are very very few good trainers around.

can I ask why you also think I need a new trainer for my springer ,

 

so far I have found him to be very good and in the 4 weeks I have been using him my dog is now a totally different dog to what he was,,please note he does not run off all the time its only on rare occasions that he just decides he wants to do what he wants to do,,

 

can you explain to me what I should do (not including sacking the trainer) to stop my dog doing this

 

atb Evo

[scotslad]

Must admit i tend to agree with cocker boy and kent on this, very few 'proper' trainers would advocate using a collar for that and definately would not just stick it on and use it instantly. To me that says he has not got a clue about how to use an electric collar.

In USA and even NZ whole books on how to use collars and how to condition ur dog before u even think about pushing the button

 

I'm lucky enough to know 1 or 2 'proper' trainers and none of them would ever use a collar esp not with a clients dog like that

[cocker boy]

can I ask why you also think I need a new trainer for my springer ,

 

so far I have found him to be very good and in the 4 weeks I have been using him my dog is now a totally different dog to what he was,,please note he does not run off all the time its only on rare occasions that he just decides he wants to do what he wants to do,,

 

can you explain to me what I should do (not including sacking the trainer) to stop my dog doing this

 

atb Evo

You don't need a NEW trainer because you haven't got a trainer in the first place. You asked for advice, that is mine. Get yourself a GOOD trainer.

[kent]

 

But surely there is a difference between the dog coming back and ignoring the stop in the first place , the punishment would be for ignoring the stop not for a poor recall.

 

 

Not stopping to stop could and can be done with collar BUT its not the best way. The best way is to get hold of the dog give it no reaction at all (certainly no rebuke as it can only associate that with its return to your side) put it lead on it walk it calmly to the very spot "stop" was blanked grab hold of it look directly into its eyes and say NO! and blow stop again. Walk it away to heel and check it got the message load and clear with a couple of practice blows. If the dog sort of stutters at the stop when first blown at range then personally I step in with a rebuke of "SIT DOWN" I do not blow it twice. I actually used back to the spot with my own dog yesterday who knows full well what to do on stop, only traded his normal compliance for continuing to follow a scent (most likely a fresh hare) I was distracted sorting some gear out at home at the time and didn't see the start of the hunt and he entered into the doolally lock on lock out zone without my attention. Normally I see it happening and get him back into hand before it escalates

 

The biggest trouble with collars is they are too easy a fix to resort to when other ways are actually better! Dogs don't always associate the correct two things and here lies the problem, slip up with an e-collar and it sets you way back in training! In aversion they are fast and effective and although some dogs respond well and quick to traditional ways some pre-established habits like a persistent hard headed stock chaser they are gold dust

[fenboy]

I have been doing quite a bit of reading up on the e collars , I can see both sides of the argument for and against their use.

 

They certainly are not a instant cure all but are another tool if required .

 

I am considering getting one for my dog , to r-enforce the stop as the way you deal with it just does not work with him .

 

His answer to any sort of telling off is to run off , its been like that from a early age , god knows why as he has never been mistreated .

The trainer had the same trouble .

 

So currently if he ignores the stop and I shout "No" or "sit" he legs it , if I go to take him to the spot he legs it !

That is a good part of what has made his training so difficult.

 

On the plus side we had another good retrieve on the marsh today

[sonicdmb]

personally I own an E collar, I did use it to cure a problem which all other methods had failed. Being smart he behaved perfectly when I had a chance of catching him, then would ignore me when on a hot scent and couldn't be caught. It is a tool but must be used very carefully not to cause more problems than it cures.

 

For an older deaf dog then a vibrate "Look at me" type use could extend a dogs working life if otherwise fit to do so.that is the only reason I kept mine.

[kent]

I have been doing quite a bit of reading up on the e collars , I can see both sides of the argument for and against their use.

 

They certainly are not a instant cure all but are another tool if required .

 

I am considering getting one for my dog , to r-enforce the stop as the way you deal with it just does not work with him .

 

His answer to any sort of telling off is to run off , its been like that from a early age , god knows why as he has never been mistreated .

The trainer had the same trouble .

 

So currently if he ignores the stop and I shout "No" or "sit" he legs it , if I go to take him to the spot he legs it !

That is a good part of what has made his training so difficult.

 

On the plus side we had another good retrieve on the marsh today

 

That is because he is most likely bright and submissive and still not fully adult ( like a teenager who will only stick the vees up behind his dads back), my lab will react just the same way that's why I give no reaction even dropping the lead around his neck and walking him back to the spot I am neutral . when you get there it don't take much to correct such a dog, a real tough hard headed candidate that's as dumb as soup is another matter

[kent]

personally I own an E collar, I did use it to cure a problem which all other methods had failed. Being smart he behaved perfectly when I had a chance of catching him, then would ignore me when on a hot scent and couldn't be caught. It is a tool but must be used very carefully not to cause more problems than it cures.

 

For an older deaf dog then a vibrate "Look at me" type use could extend a dogs working life if otherwise fit to do so.that is the only reason I kept mine.

 

I sold mine so I couldn't use it for anything but the right reason as I should have to actually buy another unit. To be fair if I had to use one I should consider keeping that dog, life is too short

[sonicdmb]

Just to be clear I have permanently disabled the shock part.

My thought on keeping the collar is that if my dog ends up deaf (no not the spaniel I'm not listening one) but its not like you can get ear defenders for them. That a short vib could be used instead of the pip to get her to look to me for a hand signal. other than that I have no need of one.

[gsorense]

Sonic, get your dog a pair of these badboys! Functional AND stylish....!

 

http://www.safeandsoundpets.com/large.html