holloway Posted September 10, 2014 Report Share Posted September 10, 2014 Playing devils advocate on this one ... i was bigging up the conservation side of game shooting to a chap the other day when he said whats the point in looking after the countryside for your gamebirds needs, admittedly songbirds accidently benefit from the extra feed during the winter when you then slaughter every animal that poses a threat to the game birds ? ie foxes stouts weasels have they not as much right to benefit from your totaly false overcrowded population of gamebirds as the songbirds. Has he a point ? we wax lyrical about the number of songbirds on the shoot but if they fed on poults it would be another story wouldnt it ? How many foxes do the keepers happily tolerate on there ground ? let me guess looking at the average pigeon watch post i would say zero ! so its selective conservation at best and complete iradication at worst, please discuss .Just to add i have run a small Pheasant shoot and at the time would shoot any fox that i saw on my ground...... today i probably would not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scolopax Posted September 11, 2014 Report Share Posted September 11, 2014 Killing foxes is a fashionable and a sport to some in itself Hitting them hard is absolutely necessary on a wild bird shoot or a semi wild bird shoot or an area on conservation interest for ground nesting birds But......on a typical game shoot, essentially put and take......it is not necessary to be that hard on them outside the release period. I have seen very successful full time keepered shoots with a fox in every wood come December. They thrive on the pricked and lost birds and do the keeper a favour. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robbiep Posted September 11, 2014 Report Share Posted September 11, 2014 Depends on the farm. If your shoot is on an upland hill farm, where there will be lots of lambs running around in spring, then it's hammer time on the foxes, all year round. If, however, it's largely arable/cattle, with cover crop and woodland patches, then it's far less needed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ollie Posted September 11, 2014 Report Share Posted September 11, 2014 On our shoot which is a DIY friends shoot we normally take between 20-30 foxes a year between July - February by a mixture of snaring & lamping. We only put out 100 birds and the shoot is quite small so we can't afford big losses by foxes. 2 years ago we missed a year on our shoot and last year we took almost 40 foxes off the shoot. This year we have noticed the difference from the previous year as we have only take 2 foxes since the end of July. You will never eradicate the fox, there will always be some to come in and take their place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
malkiserow Posted September 11, 2014 Report Share Posted September 11, 2014 I started a thread that maybe can be viewed alongside this on about fox numbers.... >>> LINKY <<< Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr pigeon Posted September 11, 2014 Report Share Posted September 11, 2014 I've now shot 31 foxes since middle of may. The two huge farms that surround our little shoot do no fox control at all. So I shoot whatever I see as I know I'm mearly controlling numbers somewhat. Went out last night and saw another fox which has moved in, I'm never going to clean them out but just giving my birds the best chance I can. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted September 11, 2014 Report Share Posted September 11, 2014 (edited) Playing devils advocate on this one ... i was bigging up the conservation side of game shooting to a chap the other day when he said whats the point in looking after the countryside for your gamebirds needs, admittedly songbirds accidently benefit from the extra feed during the winter when you then slaughter every animal that poses a threat to the game birds ? ie foxes stouts weasels have they not as much right to benefit from your totaly false overcrowded population of gamebirds as the songbirds. Has he a point ? we wax lyrical about the number of songbirds on the shoot but if they fed on poults it would be another story wouldnt it ? How many foxes do the keepers happily tolerate on there ground ? let me guess looking at the average pigeon watch post i would say zero ! so its selective conservation at best and complete iradication at worst, please discuss .Just to add i have run a small Pheasant shoot and at the time would shoot any fox that i saw on my ground...... today i probably would not. But your 'chap' is missing the point isn't he? The gamebirds aren't introduced to the land for the benefit of anything other than the shooters. The fact that songbirds benefit is nothing more than coincidence, and the 'slaughter (of) every animal that poses a threat to the gamebirds' simply doesn't happen, no matter how much of an effort the 'keeper puts in. We have Buzzards, Sparrowhawks, Magpies, Stoats, Weasels,( I'm assuming, but have never seen one on our shoot) Otters, Jays, Owls, Rats, Badgers and Foxes on our shoot. It could be argued that introducing gamebirds has a beneficial effect on all manner of wildlife, especially those which predate on those birds but are protected species, and it should also be pointed out that foxes are shot by many people regardless of whether there are gamebirds present or not. We don't shoot as many Foxes as we could, only the troublesome ones, and no Stoats or Weasels at all. I like Mustelids. Edited September 11, 2014 by Scully Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alycidon Posted September 11, 2014 Report Share Posted September 11, 2014 I have a part time keeper, a friend and myself. We are lamping once the crops are off at least 2 nights a week, sometimes two of us are out on the same night on different beats. So far this year the keeper has shot 3, my friend 1 and I have 1 with one miss. We are typically seeing one or sometimes two pairs of fox eyes in a five hour session. As a shoot co captain I will tollerate an odd fox yes, clears up hit birds but no more than an odd one. I would like to take another 2 or 3 out in the next few weeks but fields are now all ploughed, just waiting for some rain then it will be in with the drilling. When I read of the volumes of foxes taken by some here it reminds me of the big areas of low ground land where wildlife tends to be un keepered or managed to produce fox numbers traditionally for the fox hound packs. A Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
norfolk dumpling Posted September 13, 2014 Report Share Posted September 13, 2014 Holloway, there is a wider issue we perhaps should mention and that is the pressure brought about by the expanding population and the pressure this puts on wildlife: housing, transport, intensive farming etc. As wildlife gets squeezed out by us the survivors are always the predators and this is very evident in town where you see huge numbers of magpies and foxes. By providing a comparatively predator-free zone wildlife has a chance to recover and indeed flourish. To really help our wildlife we should cut our population!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
holloway Posted September 13, 2014 Author Report Share Posted September 13, 2014 Lots of good well balanced thoughts so far really nice to hear. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Essex Hunter Posted September 13, 2014 Report Share Posted September 13, 2014 We just whack them at any chance...4 farms I shoot have no game shoots on but 2 boarder a large game shoot... I have seen loads of pheasant poults on those other farms as a result of my fox control..... TEH Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loriusgarrulus Posted September 13, 2014 Report Share Posted September 13, 2014 OH just offered another 800 acre permission on the condition he tries to thin the foxes out. Sheep farm in Wales. Owner of the land liked OH's springer who ignores sheep and got on with his collie. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magman Posted September 13, 2014 Report Share Posted September 13, 2014 Had 33 since July and they keep moving in maybe if they were not dropped off out of the towns there would be less in the country side . one things for sure they will never go extinct Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
worthy130 Posted September 14, 2014 Report Share Posted September 14, 2014 On my commercial shoot I shoot/trap around 130 a year, we have forestry around us and since the commission banned the hounds its become a breeding ground for them! At £32 per bird potential income I do not tolerate them. Its hard enough to make money these days in game shooting... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dougall Posted September 17, 2014 Report Share Posted September 17, 2014 It is not possible to eradicate fox,they have a certain territory and once that fox is taken another finds its patch soon enough.It is more keeping on top of them as certainly once a canny old 'un gets the taste for poults you have a problem.There is a thought that if you just left them they would territorially manage their own patch,however that would be too many.I would never actually want them totally eradicated,that is not what it is all about,I am pretty sure though that if left to get to natural saturation point we would lose far more poults over summer.Over 1600 acres we take @50 per annum average,which I would guesstimate is 50% of the actual population. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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