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Just read reviews on Kronch Pemikan bars you have to be steady with the amounts by the looks, with it's affects this should have been banned in the 70s if humans used it,

The question is where can you buy this from.

Regards...delburt0......

Edited by delburt0
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Just read reviews on Kronch Pemikan bars you have to be steady with the amounts by the looks, with it's affects this should have been banned in the 70s if humans used it,

The question is where can you buy this from.

Regards...delburt0......

Loads on Ebay

http://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?clk_rvr_id=728626647522&adpos=1t2&MT_ID=10&crlp=37735369127_2113181&device=c&geo_id=32251&keyword=kronch+pemmikan&crdt=0&_nkw=kronch+pemmikan&_sop=15

 

P.S Dogs need some carbohydrate for slow release energy.

Edited by loriusgarrulus
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I appreciate they do need a certain a low amount of carbs but my vets view is that even though needing a minimal amount of carbs, protein is the main intake they should have upmost before anything else. Edited by delburt0
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Kronch pemmikan bars are good, they come in six large squares.

 

Cut (with a bread knife) each large square into 4 and feed a piece after each drive, it is as hard a walnut so you have no chance of breaking it up out in the field when it's cold and the squares you may be able to break it into are far too big for the dog.

 

My oldest bitch ****s non stop if she's fed before a days work, I now give her a larger than normal feed the night before and get her through the day with this stuff. Beware of overuse though, I gave my young dog a square before a trial earlier this season and he was "a bit hot".... or wild as a hawk!

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Dogs do not need carbs in there diet at all and can be harmful if given a lot the most important thing to give a dog after it's sugar fix would be protein and fat, giving the dog any high protein food would be fine.

Eggs meat fish etc scotch eggs would be ideal for the dog

:oops:

 

If you want a dog to give you sustained energy then carbohydrate is the best way. This is absolutely the case if the dog has just gone 'hypo'. It takes a lot more biochemical steps to use protein as an energy source.Fat is also slow to digest and can be a very delayed energy source.

 

You can go 'back to nature' but dogs do not naturally work for hours like in the shooting field - they hunt, feast and rest until hungry. A wild dog may only eat one huge meal every few days, with a lot of inactivity between.

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I have never seen the top trial men use those bars either during a trial or on days training . Feed the dog correctly and make sure the dog is fit is the most important thing. Where does a wild dog get a pot of golden syrup from?. Get the dog fit.

Edited by cocker boy
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I have never seen the top trial men use those bars either during a trial or on days training . Feed the dog correctly and make sure the dog is fit is the most important thing. Where does a wild dog get a pot of golden syrup from?. Get the dog fit.

Exactly the number of beaters and picker ups I see that come and expect the dog to graft for a full day and yet in the off season the dog has done next to nothing

 

Interestingly greyhound trainers use brown bread,rice and pasta in their feeding regimes they obviously think carbs are a necessity

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I have never seen the top trial men use those bars either during a trial or on days training . Feed the dog correctly and make sure the dog is fit is the most important thing. Where does a wild dog get a pot of golden syrup from?. Get the dog fit.

 

 

Would have thought a dog that hunts in short bursts in a trial would be less likely to need extra fuel for stamina.

 

Reading through some old posts over the last few days there seems to be a common misconception that good dogs are dogs that can hunt all day long on a shoot.Quite the contrary would be the case in the wild.A wild Dingo (such as the one cocker boy owned, of the curley coat duck hunting variety) wouldn't last long if it had to hunt all day for food before finding some.No, dogs/wild cats, are not designed to be long distance atheletes (apart from the likes of the husky, a dog that hunted in the wild on vast empty spaces of hundreds of miles for food, often in packs). Sometimes ignorance and pride can play a part in why some of these shooting dogs are breaking down.

 

As cb says. Feed and water the dog correctly. Exercise accordingly and equally, rest the dog accordingly.

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Dogs don't need carbs,they need protein and fat

 

Edited to say, a fit dog with the right amounts of the above should be fine, I have seen a spaniel get wobbledy beating but it happens to be the one dog that is fed the poorest diet, there may be short term solutions but I can't see this doing the dog any good,I'm no vet but I would put it in the car

Edited by gazbev
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I'd have thought that only problem with this dog is that it's cold, I doubt feeding it has revived it, it's a dog, when was the last time you saw it refuse food? Cockers don't have the insulation that a labrador has & can struggle in cold / wet conditions, particularly if they have to stand around after intense activity.

 

I don't buy this requirement to feed your dog during shoot days, Cocker Boy is right, get your dog fit. I see keeper dogs that run 4 / 5 days a week on the moor, they don't get lunch time snacks & some of them are non stop hunting machines. (Thinking of a certain FTCH bitch as I wrote that)

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Have any of you gone without food and done lots of exercise and then gone all wobbly. Its caused by low sugar in the body. The same thing can happen to dogs. Excess heat or cold can have an input.

If your dog gets fed in the evening the day before and then you have a hard hunting day the dog is going to get low. Even sharing a bit of your bacon butty with bread can help stop this.

Some dogs are better at coping than others. They vary just like us. Some burn energy off faster. How you feed your dog or not on a working day depends on the dog and not necceserily on how fit it is.

They shouldn't have a big meal before working as it can cause other problems, but a small snack doesn't go amiss.

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Have any of you gone without food and done lots of exercise and then gone all wobbly. Its caused by low sugar in the body. The same thing can happen to dogs. Excess heat or cold can have an input.

If your dog gets fed in the evening the day before and then you have a hard hunting day the dog is going to get low. Even sharing a bit of your bacon butty with bread can help stop this.

Some dogs are better at coping than others. They vary just like us. Some burn energy off faster. How you feed your dog or not on a working day depends on the dog and not necceserily on how fit it is.

They shouldn't have a big meal before working as it can cause other problems, but a small snack doesn't go amiss.

 

My dogs do two days a week either picking up / flanking or beating during the grouse season. I never give them titbits or anything else during the day. I feed usually once a day in the evening, occasionally I feed a bit on a morning but rarely. I feed them RAW & as others have posted, I don't think giving them carbs serves any purpose. To date they haven't keeled over & they do their jobs all day, if they didn't do their jobs they'd be looking for an alternative place to live. I like to keep my dogs fit 12 months of the year.

What I post is based on experience of working dogs & seeing other dogs being worked on a regular basis.

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One other thing that nobody has mentioned, has the dog been clipped? Whilst clipping a spaniel seems a good thing to do for the warm summer / autumn days, I don't think that the dog then has the correct coat for the cooler winter days as you clip out both the new & old hair.

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Go into a hunt kennels and ask the huntsman what he feeds his hounds before they go hunting?. If you think a spaniel/ Labrador covers the same amount of ground as a foxhound you need to re think. A gundog on a shoot does NOT work all day, he may be out from 8am until 5pm, but he ain't working the whole time. The hounds hunt without falling over because they are got fit.

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I'd have thought that only problem with this dog is that it's cold, I doubt feeding it has revived it,

Categorically we will get dogs in (almost invariably spaniels, 80% cocker's) collapsed whilst out shooting. They pretty much all have low blood glucose but normal body temperatures. They simply run out of energy. We will see one most weeks throughout the season, I've seen 3 in a single day. It's actually very common. Iv glucose followed by a tin of Chappie and they almost all walk out of the surgery inside of an hour back to normal.

 

I'm damn sure I wouldn't be running about all day with no breakfast. I suspect cocker's are more affected as they can be more hyperactive and have a smaller liver to store glycogen - a readily available energy store.

 

It's crazy expecting a dog to work with no breakfast.

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Categorically we will get dogs in (almost invariably spaniels, 80% cocker's) collapsed whilst out shooting. They pretty much all have low blood glucose but normal body temperatures. They simply run out of energy. We will see one most weeks throughout the season, I've seen 3 in a single day. It's actually very common. Iv glucose followed by a tin of Chappie and they almost all walk out of the surgery inside of an hour back to normal.

 

I'm damn sure I wouldn't be running about all day with no breakfast. I suspect cocker's are more affected as they can be more hyperactive and have a smaller liver to store glycogen - a readily available energy store.

 

It's crazy expecting a dog to work with no breakfast.

How many of those dogs are actually fit enough to do a days proper work?

 

As part of my team I run two cocker dogs, they've regularly done back to back picking up days & they run their guts out looking for game sweeping up 5 drives a day. They're yet to keel over because they haven't had a sugar top up mid day.

A mate of mine runs a ftch cocker bitch in his beating team, this bitch goes at 100mph 5 drives a day, it's the hardest going thing you'd ever see on a moor, rain or shine. He certainly doesn't stop to give food during the day.

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I would agree with you than many of them belong to farmers and weekend shooters - fewer of them belong to the gamekeepers who are out multiple times per week (although some do).

 

Generally they are on the leaner side rather than fat. I'm not doubting fitness doesn't come into it, but if you work 5 days per week and only get to shoot in your syndicate on Saturday it's not good enough having your dog collapse through low blood sugar. Not everyone can be out shooting multiple days per week.

 

I'd still rather people gave the dogs a small breakfast and something at lunchtime - even if only the crusts from your sandwich or the end of the sausage roll.

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Generally they are on the leaner side rather than fat. I'm not doubting fitness doesn't come into it, but if you work 5 days per week and only get to shoot in your syndicate on Saturday it's not good enough having your dog collapse through low blood sugar. Not everyone can be out shooting multiple days per week.

 

That's the difference between being a dog man & having a dog as a fashion accessory. My dogs don't work anywhere near enough shot days (I have to earn a living) but they're 100% fit for the task when they do so.

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That's the difference between being a dog man & having a dog as a fashion accessory. My dogs don't work anywhere near enough shot days (I have to earn a living) but they're 100% fit for the task when they do so.

Perce is bang on . Doesn't matter how much you shoot or what your job is , if your serious about working your dogs you should be serious about looking after them and that is getting and keeping them as fit as you possibly can not leaving them laying in kennels all week and over the summer.

 

I am not criticising the OP but we have all seen dogs that ain't hill fit.

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So apache from your experience what do you suggest feeding part of the way through a shoot day to keep a Sprocker's blood sugar levels up?

Carbohydrate. Handful of dog buscuits, one of your sandwiches, sausage roll. Don't much care. Not just sugar. Not something that takes a lot of time to utilise.

 

Re the fitness comments - I've seen this condition affect very fit workings dogs that are out in the field 5 days a week. I see a skewed population, but they are not all unfit.

Edited by apache
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Is common sense and understanding not the thing missing here?

 

How a field trial dog is prepared to compete will be different to the way a regular shooting dog is prepared? No?

 

The feeding patterns and amounts will vary considerably as will the amount of time training and resting between training.

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