stuart21 Posted November 25, 2014 Report Share Posted November 25, 2014 Hi all, My lab has recently started not releasing what he is bringing back to me. It started since I bought another dog, so I assume he is doing this to stop the pup get it. The problem is that he does this when I am working just him. I literally have to prize his jaws apart to take a bird off him. Any suggestions on what I can do? Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigbird Posted November 25, 2014 Report Share Posted November 25, 2014 (edited) When we first started gundog training our then very well known and respected trainer told us to squeeze the dog's paw if that happened. It worked but the dog then bit my hubby lol. Haven't done it since! Perhaps have a 'swap' object on hand to begin with? Sit him up. Say your release command, hold the object in his mouth (NOT pulling at it) and with the other hand offer him another object that he's partial to. Fingers crossed he'll then let go so give the second object to him and let him hold that for a bit. Not treats, that's liable to make your dog drop the object rather than deliver it nicely. Edited November 25, 2014 by bigbird Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigbird Posted November 25, 2014 Report Share Posted November 25, 2014 (edited) Oh, and also, when he does hand it over, offer it back to him as if it's not a big deal to you, you weren't that desperate for it anyway and let him hold it for a bit longer, maybe just whilst he's walking at heel for a few yards. Repeat until he's cooperative again! Lots of praise and squeaky excited girlie voice throughout Edited November 25, 2014 by bigbird Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rupert10 Posted November 25, 2014 Report Share Posted November 25, 2014 (edited) s Edited November 25, 2014 by Rupert10 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigbird Posted November 25, 2014 Report Share Posted November 25, 2014 (edited) Give him 50 x seen memory double retrieves then do the same the following day but change it slightly so 4 times within the 50 or so memory retrieves he has a simple seen retrieve out and back. Slowly introduce more straight out and back retrieves. Every now and again throw a dummy or tennis ball over his head as he's returning with a retrieve. Then send him once he's handed the retrieve over. That should sort him. Or make him sick to death of retrieving Sorry couldn't resist On a serious note, I feel this is a delivery problem which is easily sorted away from the other pup Edited November 25, 2014 by bigbird Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rupert10 Posted November 25, 2014 Report Share Posted November 25, 2014 (edited) This isn't a pup but use the amount happy with so long as it's enough to reboot him. BB-it is a delivery problem. The problem is he's reluctant to deliver or let go. My guess is it might have been that he's had a lot of runners recently or returned a lot of lively birds recently or it could be a genuine reluctance to hand the item over. Try dummies or tennis balls and see if you get the same deal. If so, and he's a keen retriever, he will quickly hand over any training item knowing there's another retrieve awaiting. Double memory or seen retrieves and high numbers of them. Is he damaging game? Edited November 25, 2014 by Rupert10 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigbird Posted November 25, 2014 Report Share Posted November 25, 2014 (edited) Fair point but would one then not run the risk of the dog being so eager for the next retrieve that he actually drops the item in his haste? Edited November 25, 2014 by bigbird Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pboro shot Posted November 25, 2014 Report Share Posted November 25, 2014 Annoying but useally easily broken habit try walking away ,as you do give the hold command then sit him up if you useally expect a sit if not just give you release command repertition is the name of the game or as you go to take the retrieve chuck another dummy again may be a quick fix but never any garantees but wont take much Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickB65 Posted November 25, 2014 Report Share Posted November 25, 2014 I have the opposite issue in that Blue will deliver but tend to spit it at my feet and not deliver to my hand. When this happens I use the command hold and walk backwards..... now if he gets lazy and drops it on the floor I just walk backwards and he picks it up and delivers it correctly..... Good luck and let us know how it goes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rupert10 Posted November 25, 2014 Report Share Posted November 25, 2014 Annoying but useally easily broken habit try walking away ,as you do give the hold command then sit him up if you useally expect a sit if not just give you release command repertition is the name of the game or as you go to take the retrieve chuck another dummy again may be a quick fix but never any garantees but wont take much Repetition is the name of the game but the dog has to want to give it over. Repetition of the release command, especially as the dog is already ignoring it, will only create repetition of the thing you don't want. The dog refusing to oblige. That will ingrain even further the dogs reluctance to hand the retrieve over. Put him in a situation where he can repeat the desired behavior over and over again. Not the behavior you don't want. He has to WANT to hand the retrieve over. He will when he knows there's another coming as soon as he releases the first retrieve so try the doubles. Make them interesting for him but not so he fails. You might have to end up trying this with cold game as well before trying warm fresh stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PERCE Posted November 25, 2014 Report Share Posted November 25, 2014 What if the dog's not the same with dummies? What if it happily releases dummies? What will marathon dummy picking sessions achieve then? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigbird Posted November 25, 2014 Report Share Posted November 25, 2014 That's why I said object rather than dummy lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rupert10 Posted November 25, 2014 Report Share Posted November 25, 2014 (edited) What if the dog's not the same with dummies? What if it happily releases dummies? What will marathon dummy picking sessions achieve then? Use whatever it's happy to retrieve. I've never known a keen retriever refuse to get enthusiastic about a tennis ball, for instance. If you say 50 retrieves or 25 lefts and 25 rights, of a tennis ball over any given period of time, is a marathon retrieving session then... Nobody is saying put the stopwatch on and time the dog over distances. It's simple, right-back to hand, left-back to hand. As long as he's aware of a following retrieve. The dog is not a pup and I take it the owner knows the dogs limits. Personally, and honestly, I have never, ever, known a decent retrieving gundog that isn't motivated and excited by seen doubles of a tennis ball. Blinds, in my opinion, always enthuse a retrieving dog even more regards retrieving however the object of the exercise is not the going out to retrieve with gusto, we have to assume the dog is keen to retrieve in the first place. The object of the exercise is to get a once perfect on the release dog to relearn that release= another retrieve. The simplest way is to show it there's another by throwing one left and one right. Back with one, there you go masssa, send me for the other. Repetition of this works for gaining a delivery quickly. Just to edit- That was why I mentioned in an earlier post " use dummies tennis balls and see if you get the same deal" Edited November 25, 2014 by Rupert10 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PERCE Posted November 25, 2014 Report Share Posted November 25, 2014 Use whatever it's happy to retrieve. I've never known a keen retriever refuse to get enthusiastic about a tennis ball, for instance. If you say 50 retrieves or 25 lefts and 25 rights, of a tennis ball over any given period of time, is a marathon retrieving session then... Nobody is saying put the stopwatch on and time the dog over distances. It's simple, right-back to hand, left-back to hand. As long as he's aware of a following retrieve. The dog is not a pup and I take it the owner knows the dogs limits. Personally, and honestly, I have never, ever, known a decent retrieving gundog that isn't motivated and excited by seen doubles of a tennis ball. Blinds, in my opinion, always enthuse a retrieving dog even more regards retrieving however the object of the exercise is not the going out to retrieve with gusto, we have to assume the dog is keen to retrieve in the first place. The object of the exercise is to get a once perfect on the release dog to relearn that release= another retrieve. The simplest way is to show it there's another by throwing one left and one right. Back with one, there you go masssa, send me for the other. Repetition of this works for gaining a delivery quickly. Just to edit- That was why I mentioned in an earlier post " use dummies tennis balls and see if you get the same deal" Good to see Bazooka back.............. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigbird Posted November 25, 2014 Report Share Posted November 25, 2014 Haha alright mate!? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rupert10 Posted November 25, 2014 Report Share Posted November 25, 2014 Good to see Bazooka back.............. If that is a training term then the Bazooka bit is probably not necessary Back is normally ample. Once the dog releases and waits "Back" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigbird Posted November 25, 2014 Report Share Posted November 25, 2014 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PERCE Posted November 25, 2014 Report Share Posted November 25, 2014 If that is a training term then the Bazooka bit is probably not necessary Back is normally ample. Once the dog releases and waits "Back" Still a *** head then Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stuart21 Posted November 25, 2014 Author Report Share Posted November 25, 2014 Thanks everyone! He is not a pup and will retrieve all day. I would even say he has OCD about retrieving. I have tried with dummies and balls and he is the same. He doesn't damage game, but I probably do when trying to prize it from his mouth. I think I will try with a couple of tennis balls first. It's strange, as if him and the pup are out, he will pick up and then the pup will take it straight off him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andrew f Posted November 26, 2014 Report Share Posted November 26, 2014 I have the opposite issue in that Blue will deliver but tend to spit it at my feet and not deliver to my hand. When this happens I use the command hold and walk backwards..... now if he gets lazy and drops it on the floor I just walk backwards and he picks it up and delivers it correctly..... Good luck and let us know how it goes. To fussy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pboro shot Posted November 27, 2014 Report Share Posted November 27, 2014 Repetition is the name of the game but the dog has to want to give it over. Repetition of the release command, especially as the dog is already ignoring it, will only create repetition of the thing you don't want. The dog refusing to oblige. That will ingrain even further the dogs reluctance to hand the retrieve over. Put him in a situation where he can repeat the desired behavior over and over again. Not the behavior you don't want. He has to WANT to hand the retrieve over. He will when he knows there's another coming as soon as he releases the first retrieve so try the doubles. Make them interesting for him but not so he fails. You might have to end up trying this with cold game as well before trying warm fresh stuff. by chucking a further dummy solves the problem works 9 times out of 10 all trial and error but good starting point Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pboro shot Posted November 27, 2014 Report Share Posted November 27, 2014 What if the dog's not the same with dummies? What if it happily releases dummies? What will marathon dummy picking sessions achieve then? add feather fur flavour wotever never do a marathon of any training session id do 10 15 minute sessions few times aday should see a change within a few days if not change the tactics this is a very common problem every year around this time as game season is underway ..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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