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8 Bore Reloading


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I will try once more bud.

.729" nominal bore for a 12g down to full choke, usually .690". That is nearly a whole mm all the way around the circumference.

I just measured a fibre wad designated for 12g it measures all but .750". So with these I ram them in to a lesser bor by .021" and then ram them through a full choke @.690" at tremendous pressure and speed but hold on a minute no bulges!

If a wad alone could bulge steel it would be banned.

All a tight wad will do on entering a barrel is try to grow in length or its very construction compress into a smaller volume from the pressure, the very same pressure from combustion, the very same pressure that err does not burst a barrel.

.015"-.020" of tight wad in an 8g makes no difference. The principal is the same. It makes no comparison trying to demonstrate it by hand either, that is worlds away from the true dynamics of what goes on!

 

Poor ignition from low static compression in a loaded 8g cartridge with a glued card over the shot can cause a stutter on firing, that in turn turns the ejecta into a partial obstruction. A known cause to cause bulges!

 

Magnum primers are not for magnum loads or so called cartridges. They exist to A, ignite large amounts of powder or B, to ignite hard to ignite powder types and C, ignite low static compression loads.

 

You Sir are barking up the wrong tree over the wads I promise you!

 

U.

Edited by Underdog
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I will try once more bud.

.729" nominal bore for a 12g down to full choke, usually .690". That is nearly a whole mm all the way around the circumference.

I just measured a fibre wad designated for 12g it measures all but .750". So with these I ram them in to a lesser bor by .021" and then ram them through a full choke @.690" at tremendous pressure and speed but hold on a minute no bulges!

If a wad alone could bulge steel it would be banned.

All a tight wad will do on entering a barrel is try to grow in length or its very construction compress into a smaller volume from the pressure, the very same pressure from combustion, the very same pressure that err does not burst a barrel.

.015"-.020" of tight wad in an 8g makes no difference. The principal is the same. It makes no comparison trying to demonstrate it by hand either, that is worlds away from the true dynamics of what goes on!

Poor ignition from low static compression in a loaded 8g cartridge with a glued card over the shot can cause a stutter on firing, that in turn turns the ejecta into a partial obstruction. A known cause to cause bulges!

Magnum primers are not for magnum loads or so called cartridges. They exist to A, ignite large amounts of powder or B, to ignite hard to ignite powder types and C, ignite low static compression loads.

You Sir are barking up the wrong tree over the wads I promise you!

U.

And I will try again simplistically, an oversize hard wad in an undersize bore will require cosiderably more pressure (especially when the wad has little or no give in it) to push ithe wad up the bore than a correctly sized wad up a nominal (normal sized) bore, yes? the wad and charge is pushed up the bore by the combustion and consequent expansion of gasses caused by the ignition of the powder by the firing of the primer, can we agree that?

It is this added pressure (caused by an oversize wad or an undersize bore, or both!) that can lead to ring bulges occurring in the area of greatest resistance ie. the area just in front of the choke constriction! a stronger primer can increase this pressure considerably.

 

I posted on this topic not to personally attack you but because I think your advice is wrong I still do, I think anyone who follows it is putting themselves (especially newcomers to reloading) in danger of injury, my advice is to err on the side of caution.

 

That is my last word on the matter, others can decide who is right or who is wrong?

 

Stay safe!

 

P1

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I have a bored out 10 -8 bore and in the lead days I must have fired 1000s of plastic wads through it, even had brass separating from the plastic case on some doggy remmi cases and the case pass through the barrel with no effect , I must admit I have had a slight bulge which was caused by the paper base wad coming way in old Henry industrial cases and stopping up the barrel causing an obstruction, now I use 2oz with normal 8 bore fibre wads, Jim.

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And I will try again simplistically, an oversize hard wad in an undersize bore will require cosiderably more pressure (especially when the wad has little or no give in it) to push ithe wad up the bore than a correctly sized wad up a nominal (normal sized) bore, yes? the wad and charge is pushed up the bore by the combustion and consequent expansion of gasses caused by the ignition of the powder by the firing of the primer, can we agree that?

It is this added pressure (caused by an oversize wad or an undersize bore, or both!) that can lead to ring bulges occurring in the area of greatest resistance ie. the area just in front of the choke constriction! a stronger primer can increase this pressure considerably.

 

I posted on this topic not to personally attack you but because I think your advice is wrong I still do, I think anyone who follows it is putting themselves (especially newcomers to reloading) in danger of injury, my advice is to err on the side of caution.

 

That is my last word on the matter, others can decide who is right or who is wrong?

 

Stay safe!

 

P1

And you to Sir.

 

U.

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I have had 3 bored out 10s to 8s and have shot them for years, great guns they are to, and the rule of thumb is under no circumstance try a plastic guilandi wad in them, you will run a very high risk of a bulge or worse, these guns are normally bored out to .819 though there may be exceptions (widgeon Jims maybe one), true 8 bores are .835 the guilandi wad comes in around .840 + ( I have a old English which comes out at .895 therefore more 7 than 8 bore and another that's a true .835 therefore are good for guilandi wads, though I don't use them)

I wouldn't go with a cork wad for a bored out as these are normally pretty tight and unforgiving also I try to steer away from the thicker nitro cards that are available, I wouldn't use cartridges that others have loaded unless you know what wad is in them.

if your looking for a good gas seal get a Graham Deacon gas seal maker (grahams number on request) these will give you a good seal without compromising the barrel, try a waxed felt wad and card cup (2 sizes now available) for the shot (both available from clay and game) or waxed felt wad and wrap, I normally use either 2 1/2 oz ( bismuth) for 43grains of blue dot with a 209 cheddite primer in Winchester once fired or black Remington's, note:- black Remington's need to have 1 grain less powder as its a tighter case.

 

if your not sure of the wad size try one down the barrel if it goes through with a even push on the rod then it should be ok, if it gets stuck and extra force is required to move it through the barrel don't use them.

if your using once fired industrial cases always resize the cases prior to reloading as these tend to bulge a bit,,, its a ****** if you haven't done this and reloaded then get on the marsh and they wont fit in the gun.

if it all becomes to daunting and you want to sell the gun give me a PM, apart from that welcome to the world of the big bore, they are a great gun to shoot and will bring you many happy flights.

 

give me a PM if you need any advice

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I have had 3 bored out 10s to 8s and have shot them for years, great guns they are to, and the rule of thumb is under no circumstance try a plastic guilandi wad in them, you will run a very high risk of a bulge or worse, these guns are normally bored out to .819 though there may be exceptions (widgeon Jims maybe one), true 8 bores are .835 the guilandi wad comes in around .840 + ( I have a old English which comes out at .895 therefore more 7 than 8 bore and another that's a true .835 therefore are good for guilandi wads, though I don't use them)

I wouldn't go with a cork wad for a bored out as these are normally pretty tight and unforgiving also I try to steer away from the thicker nitro cards that are available, I wouldn't use cartridges that others have loaded unless you know what wad is in them.

if your looking for a good gas seal get a Graham Deacon gas seal maker (grahams number on request) these will give you a good seal without compromising the barrel, try a waxed felt wad and card cup (2 sizes now available) for the shot (both available from clay and game) or waxed felt wad and wrap, I normally use either 2 1/2 oz ( bismuth) for 43grains of blue dot with a 209 cheddite primer in Winchester once fired or black Remington's, note:- black Remington's need to have 1 grain less powder as its a tighter case.

 

 

if your not sure of the wad size try one down the barrel if it goes through with a even push on the rod then it should be ok, if it gets stuck and extra force is required to move it through the barrel don't use them.

if your using once fired industrial cases always resize the cases prior to reloading as these tend to bulge a bit,,, its a ****** if you haven't done this and reloaded then get on the marsh and they wont fit in the gun.

if it all becomes to daunting and you want to sell the gun give me a PM, apart from that welcome to the world of the big bore, they are a great gun to shoot and will bring you many happy flights.

 

give me a PM if you need any advice

Cheers for the info , I now have the confidence to reload the Ralf Grant myself and that I haven't bought something that would be a head ache to own.

Long live the Big bore shotguns.

All the best

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  • 3 years later...
On 12/7/2014 at 11:56, Underdog said:

matters not the guage or bore and here is why, a wad can easily pass a full choke at full velocity. Remember common full chokes are approx .080" or more less than the bore diameter! Back bored barrels exaggerate this even more.

Underdog I am confused...... the standard bore diameter for a 12 bore is .729" - agreed? And the nominal constriction for a full choke is 40 thou. (.040") - agreed? If my calculation is correct this equates to a bore measurement of  ~ .690" at the choke, so can you please explain to me where the 80 thou. reduction in bore diameter comes from? Thanks.

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