First gundog-Advice required

[Ferretboy111]

Hello,

 

Once ive saved up alittle more money through the next few months ive been allowed to get a dog, as i live with my parents still need there seal of approval first.

We did have a springer dog who wasnt trained and a nightmare to walk/work. As im a gamekeeper and a part time student ive got a fair bit of time on my hands, months off.

 

Im definately going to get a Bitch as everyone ive spoken to says to get a bitch instead of a dog, and well id like a girlie anyway.

 

As ive never actually had a dog of my own im confused about what type of dog to get, ill be using it mainly for pheasants on the beating line.

 

I was thinking about a springer bitch, but wanted to get some more advice before i decided on anything.

 

What type of dog do you recommend, and would a springer be too much for me to handle? Ill be getting more advice from the various country shows but any info from springer owners/ dog owners would be good.

 

Cheers

Alex :(

[Ferretboy111]

Well i think ive already answered my questions, been reading the sporting gun n the bloke off twanyhill gundogs said get whatever dog you have your heart set on.

 

Because i want a springer, n have been told to get a lab as its my first dog.

 

But still any info would be helpful.

 

Alex

[lurcherboy]

Lab ferretboy as it is born half trained

 

 

 

 

LB

[new to the flock]

Ferretboy,

 

In my opinion you should get the breed that you want and are set on. Now that said I suggest that you go around to a few kennels and shows and look at the different breeds, and then once you have that figured out look some more and view as many different lines within that breed as you can. This will give you a good idea of where you want your dog to come from.

 

NTTF

[Ferretboy111]

Cheers NTTF,

 

Thats my aim for the next few months, to try and get to learn as much as i can about working dogs, and training them before i make my decisions.

 

Alex

 

[Blackbart]

If you want a robot that will do everything methodicaly get a lab.On the other hand if you want something with a bit of life in it and a naughty glint in its eye get a springer.imo.This is where i get lab owners saying how dare you blah blah blah

[blackthorn]

springer, it will drive you nuts and you will love it

[MC]

Alex,

 

Get yuorself a Springer, you know you want to.

 

THey will work tirelessly all day and won't eat you out of house and home.

 

Don't believe the born half trained, die half trained ****. You will only get out what you are prepared to put in. If you give a dog the attention it needs then you will get a good one, regardless of breed.

 

If you want it for beating then definetly a springer, they will go into cover that other dogs turn away from.

[Ferretboy111]

Yeah me thinks a springer it is.

 

I mean merlin isnt that much of a skitty plonka, n he is trained well.

 

Alex

[Russell]

Cockers are great little working dogs - especially for beating. Did 52 days of beating last season with my little bitch

[Ferretboy111]

Aye a cocker would of been nice, but i cant afford one at £500 prices just for the dog.

 

+ ive heard they can be quite unreliable.

 

Alex

[Russell]

Aye a cocker would of been nice, but i cant afford one at £500 prices just for the dog.

 

+ ive heard they can be quite unreliable.

 

Alex

 

Bloody 'ell - I must of sold my pups too cheap lol - all are now sold @ £350 each. Seen prices like that advertised down south, but £350 is the average price around North Wales. Never had any unreliability problems with any of my dogs though

[Ferretboy111]

Basically ill either be getting a cocker or a springer, if i can get a good priced well lined cocker bitch then i will, but i think a springer is going to be the order of the day. Have £200 for it so far, just need around another shed load. Got given a basket/cage thing, its huge so it can be her house for indoors.

 

Just got to move the shed in the garden and make an outside run for her now.

 

Oh yeah and get the dog

[Suffolk shooter]

FB, be different and go for a Clumber. They look cute, do a good job Anyway i thought you had your heart set on a Terrier a few months ago, just like Steve's dog Charlie???

 

In all honesty, which ever dog you choose to go with, the one thing thst remains true throughout, is that you only get out of the Dog, what you yourself are prepared to put into it. Trust me I know only to well.

 

I bought my Golden Lab, from a bloodline that's second to none, Bringwood Bobby of Brindlebay owned by Mike Tallamy. This dog has FtCh and FtW galore and won the IGL retrievers championship. When I went to buy the dog, I had the choice of two, because I had had a black SPringer/Lab cross, I went with the Golden (First mistake in hindsight as the black one was much better behaved, but didn't have the heart after losing my old dog to go for it ).

 

I was working at the time locally and I had all the time in the world, and we used to go to obedience training twice a week and after a while started Gundog classes on saturday's with me and my wife training the dog for twenty minutes a time twice a day during the week. He was coming on lovely, and really made me proud when he seemed to learn so quickly.

 

Now this is where it all really went wrong. Six months after I had started training him, I changed my job which meant more money, better work etc. this was fine as my wife would trian him during the day and I would do bits with him in the evenings and at the weekends. Then we decided to have another child, and when she fell pregnant, fear of being pulled over and me working long hours around the country put a halt to his training. I now have an expensive pet, which has seemingly forgotten everything he has been taught.

 

The moral of this story is think long and hard about what it is you want to get out of your dog. It's not my Dog's fault his now three and can't do what it is that I want, it's mine. I am desparately trying to find somebody local to me who I can either go and start training him with again and/or will be able to take him on, on a short term basis to get him back to doing the basics again, before progressing with him.

 

I love him as he has his own individual character as all dogs do, and feel guilty that he's not doing what he should be.

 

So FB think long and hard mate. Whatever you decide upon, I can't wait to laugh when he disobeys you in the line and all the birds fly out before the guns are in position, as will happen at least once

 

SS :blink:

[al4x]

if you want a dog for beating and to live at home with parents etc get a Border Terrier bitch, very steady working dogs plus low maintenance, very good in a beating line and will happily go out foxing with you. A springer is fine but they are hard work and you will not be able to work her properly in a beating line for a good few years whereas the terrier can be started nearly as soon as they walk

My Jack russel first came beating at 4 months old, ok only did a few drives and got put in a pocket a lot but you can introduce them far earlier and you don't run the same risks of long term damage from working them too early.

[Ferretboy111]

Yeah i wanted a terrier when all i did was go ferreting, foxing etc.

 

Now keepering and beating is the dish of the day, and im focusing my time on this definately need some sort of spaniel as ive always had a love for them, beacuase of our liver n white dog we used to have.

 

Definately my preference for a girl aswell, planning to do puppy classes, she will be with me half the day atleast everyday, if not all day, as i eat, breathe and sleep the outdoors.

 

Whats people's views on a pedigree, or non pedigree? Much difference?:blink: apart from price, im thinking about a pedigree, as well its my first dog i may aswell get one with papers etc.

 

Alex

[krazykayaker]

GET A SPRINGER :blink:

[Ferretboy111]

SS i cant wait to see her run a muck out in the field.....

 

Its all part of her training.. If she is anything like martin's merlin ill be proud of her.

 

Alex

[MC]

if you want a dog for beating and to live at home with parents etc get a Border Terrier bitch, very steady working dogs plus low maintenance, very good in a beating line and will happily go out foxing with you. A springer is fine but they are hard work and you will not be able to work her properly in a beating line for a good few years whereas the terrier can be started nearly as soon as they walk

My Jack russel first came beating at 4 months old, ok only did a few drives and got put in a pocket a lot but you can introduce them far earlier and you don't run the same risks of long term damage from working them too early.

 

Words from someone who doesn't know much about spaniels, Is that why the Springer is the most popular dog in a beating line? And why they run trials for spaniels and not terriers?

 

It depends what you want from a beating dog, if you want one which chases everything accross the horizon and is generally out of control then don't get a spaniel and don't train it.

 

My spaniel has had about a year of training and only about 6 months before he went beating at about 18months old. You don't run the risk of ruining a terrier by starting them early as you will not be training them to the same standard.

 

Merlin is nowhere near a polished gundog but there is a hell of a lot around who are worse.

 

It is all about the dog you want and what you want them for, if it is beating and picking up and a companion all day long then there is only one breed.

 

English Springer Spaniel, nuff said

[tiercel]

Words from someone who doesn't know much about spaniels, Is that why the Springer is the most popular dog in a beating line? And why they run trials for spaniels and not terriers?

 

It depends what you want from a beating dog, if you want one which chases everything accross the horizon and is generally out of control then don't get a spaniel and don't train it.

 

My spaniel has had about a year of training and only about 6 months before he went beating at about 18months old. You don't run the risk of ruining a terrier by starting them early as you will not be training them to the same standard.

 

Merlin is nowhere near a polished gundog but there is a hell of a lot around who are worse.

 

It is all about the dog you want and what you want them for, if it is beating and picking up and a companion all day long then there is only one breed.

 

English Springer Spaniel, nuff said

 

We can take it that you are an ESS fan then. They do have their place and there are some cracking dogs around doing the job week in week out. Also there are a lot of rubbish ESS out there.

However, there are also other breeds that do the same job week in week out. To say the ESS is the only dog for beating and picking up is a tad myopic to say the least. Everyone has his or her favourite breed! Until someone has trained and worked a variety of breeds for the same job, any comment made would be guided by loyalty to that breed. Not experience.

[MC]

I assume by myopic you mean shortsighted,

 

So are you sayhing the millions of people are wrong then? If terriers are such superb beating dogs why doesn't everyone use them?

 

The fact that most people use spaniels must say something!

 

Yes I am a fan of ESS's and think they are very good dogs and millions of people can't be wrong. To say that a 4 month old untrained dog that is not bred to beat is a perfect dog is not only wrong it is ludicrous.

[tiercel]

I assume by myopic you mean shortsighted,

 

So are you sayhing the millions of people are wrong then?

 

Can you point to the part of my post where I said this please.

 

 

 

 

If terriers are such superb beating dogs why doesn't everyone use them?

 

No one is saying that Terriers are the ideal dog for beating. They were just giving an opinion the same as you did about the ESS.

 

The fact that most people use spaniels must say something!

 

It does! It shows that the ESS can, if well trained be a very versatile working dog.

 

Yes I am a fan of ESS's and think they are very good dogs and millions of people can't be wrong. To say that a 4 month old untrained dog that is not bred to beat is a perfect dog is not only wrong it is ludicrous.

 

I agree with you. They are a good dog in the right hands. Trained properly they can be a joy to work with. However, so can a lot of other breeds. To limit your experience of dogs to one breed is where the myopia comes in. There are a lot of breeds of dogs that Can do the ESS job just as well as them, and a lot of other jobs besides that the ESS not built for. HPR's cover many breeds not all suited to beating, but some like the Brittany are.

The inherent problem with beating is the dog running in, most of the time the reason the dog runs in is to retrieve the bird, that it has just flushed. A totally natural instinct for a dog that has been bred to hunt, flush and retrieve. If that dog has no retrieving instinct just wanting to hunt then that problem would not occur. So in reality a perfect beating dog hunts, flushes then starts to hunt again. If we accept that what I have said is true, then there would be very few dogs that are actually well suited to beating. The fact that some do beat very well is more a testament to their training than to the breed of dog used.

[al4x]

Martin you've taken it out of context, I purely said ours started out at 4 months not that they were good at 4 months however by the second season they were spot on. Yes terriers are less common in a beating line but they have some serious advantages that you only see when you've seen good ones work. They put up birds quietly as they get through undergrowth without a lot of crashing about and generally travel a lot slower than spaniels etc. The reason you get a lot of spaniels and labs beating are that they are the more generally accepted dogs for shooting and people generally take their picking up dogs beating. The other reason for my suggestion was the dog is going to have a young owner who is going to college etc and the dog will live with parents and at some point will move out of home with him and for this a small dog is a hell of a lot easier than a spaniel that needs a lot more attention to get working properly. In my experience spaniels need a lot of training far more than a lab etc and as a first dog they can be hard work and are very easy to wreck which for a first dog would be pretty demoralising as theres nothing worse than a dog that needs to be on a lead when beating, or was last seen nearly in the next county after a hare!

[russuk]

Have you considered any of the HPR breeds, Ferretboy111?

[Ferretboy111]

Ive thought long and hard about most of the available breeds, p.s dont want a huge dog as it will eat me out of house n home aswell as being too large for our house.

 

Asked many working dog owners locally about dogs for beating, I know a few people with terriers who have trained them well, but 9/10 a they say a terrier does its own thing really and tends to pick birds more so than anything else.

 

My initial thought was a terrier, but that was in the day's of going ferreting, foxing, ratting alot. Now my shoot is forever increasing in days and size and more places around me are creating shoots, i thought to myself well, i need some sort of trainable beating dog.

 

Ive thought a black lab, but know so many people with them which all vary in their abilities, i just find them boring (Sorry to all those lab owners out there-MILLIONS.) I know labs which are worked in the beating line and are ok, but they tend to lose birds more and run in ALOT more.. could just be because they arent trained. If i wanted a picking up dog, say if i was a gun then id get a lab.

 

Also considered such breeds as the brittany's, collies, pointers, and even poodles. Dont think id feel comfortable with them, and they all excel in different areas.

 

So i thought, well a spaniel of some sort is needed. I know many people who work springers and cockers and im torn between the two. The cockers i know are cracking workers and are well trained, but by people with years of experience in training. Well trained, but alot of them are used for retreiving more than flushing.

 

I also have spoken to people with springers, i know from experience that even an untrained springer will work and work and work and work all day long. Plough into almost any cover/ habitiat. Retrieve game and flush birds with ease. Im going to hunt hard at game fairs to research as much as i can, ive researched on the internet about them, and am getting books.

 

My college course finishes in 3 years time, my job will be outside hopefully as im doing a conservation+ environment course BSC Honours. The dog, like my ferrets come first in my life, and i plan my life around them.

 

The dog will be mine, however obviously my rents will want to get on with her aswell, maintain training etc with her but not much as i dont want her to attach to any of them.

So im pretty damn sure, that from the springers ive seen and known, and their traits, and from the experience of having one 4 years ago that a springer is right for me. The trouble with the old springer, like with many springers in the world, people buy the dog, keep it in a kennel all week apart from walks etc, and train it alittle every weekend when not at work, the dog gets fat, and then too old to be trained without alot of time for it, but with my very relaxed weekdays, aswell as holidays... twill be trained alittle everyday.

 

Like any dog, alot of time and patience and training is needed with her which i can give readily. Its a case of: if you think of a beating dog, one that flushes and is great at its job... I think the English springer spaniel will always pop into your heads first, closely followed by a cocker.

 

Alex.

 

Any more adive from springer/dog owners would be appreciated.