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alex89
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Hi guys,



This is the only scenario where i would carry knives:



- 2 opinels (lock knives) and 1 Elk ridge 12.5” Bowie (fixed blade) will be taken to the field from my owned property in the boot of my car in my field bag.


- When i arrive at the land (where i have permission from the land owner to shoot) i attach 1 opinel in a pouch to my belt and the bowie in a sheath to my belt.


- I mainly hunt pigeon, rabbit, pheasant and duck (both in season of course and not on a Sunday).


- When im done for the day i put the knives back in my bag in the boot of the car and i drive home.



IS THIS LEGAL??


IS MY REASON OF HUNTING A GOOD ENOUGH REASON TO CARRY THESE KNIVES? ???



Links for the 2 knives are:



http://www.bladesandbows.co.uk/elk-ridge-125-bowie-knife-5961



http://www.uttings.co.uk/p104756-opinel-classic-originals-high-grade-carbon-steel-knife/#.VK8TISihxic



Thanks in advance for any comments


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Your first link does not work. In answer to your question yes this would be legal as you have a legal and legitimate reason for having them with you. Make sure to remove them from your car when you have finished hunting just in case you were pulled.

my apologies, try this one http://www.masterofarms.co.uk/blades-axes/769-5-elk-ridge-hunting-bowie-knife.html

 

the knife is 12.5” and the blade is 7.5"

 

Does it matter that it is so big???

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Knife law is an absolute offence meaning it is illegal to carry that type of knife in a public place or a place the public have access to without good reason. Good reason will be what you are using it for so in effect you are still carrying an illegal knife under the law but have a legal reason for having it so have good reason and ok when carrying out shooting / connected activities.

 

Where this may be a problem is if you leave it in the car when not carrying out or on your way to and from your shooting activities. so if your out shopping with the wife and kids and it's in the glove box you do not have good reason technically to have it with you at that point in time.

It always remains an illegal type of knife under the law and the good reason gives you a defence for having it in your possession and allows you to carry it legally for those activities.

it is in effect at that time a tool of your job you are carrying out. no different from a carpet fitter carrying a Stanley knife etc.

Edited by Dibs
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Knife law is an absolute offence meaning it is illegal to carry that type of knife in a public place or a place the public have access to without good reason. Good reason will be what you are using it for so in effect you are still carrying an illegal knife under the law but have a legal reason for having it so have good reason and ok when carrying out shooting / connected activities.

 

Where this may be a problem is if you leave it in the car when not carrying out or on your way to and from your shooting activities. so if your out shopping with the wife and kids and it's in the glove box you do not have good reason technically to have it with you at that point in time.

It always remains an illegal type of knife under the law and the good reason gives you a defence for having it in your possession and allows you to carry it legally for those activities.

it is in effect at that time a tool of your job you are carrying out. no different from a carpet fitter carrying a Stanley knife etc.

 

That will never be the case, i always keep the knife in the gun safe. If the knife’s out, then the gun is out. Which means i’m hunting : )

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my apologies, try this one http://www.masterofarms.co.uk/blades-axes/769-5-elk-ridge-hunting-bowie-knife.html

 

the knife is 12.5” and the blade is 7.5"

 

Does it matter that it is so big???

 

Technically it doesn't but I can't for the life of me understand why you would need a knife like that. I mean, what does that do that your opinel doesn't?

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Technically it doesn't but I can't for the life of me understand why you would need a knife like that. I mean, what does that do that your opinel doesn't?

 

much easier to clean if you did a heart drain on a big deer.................. but a std Mora is better suited and lighter to carry

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Technically it doesn't but I can't for the life of me understand why you would need a knife like that. I mean, what does that do that your opinel doesn't?

 

 

Lots, like cut through branches etc. A machete is a massive knife and i wouldn't like to cut through vegetation with an opinel.

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Knife law is an absolute offence meaning it is illegal to carry that type of knife in a public place or a place the public have access to without good reason. Good reason will be what you are using it for so in effect you are still carrying an illegal knife under the law but have a legal reason for having it so have good reason and ok when carrying out shooting / connected activities.

 

Where this may be a problem is if you leave it in the car when not carrying out or on your way to and from your shooting activities. so if your out shopping with the wife and kids and it's in the glove box you do not have good reason technically to have it with you at that point in time.

It always remains an illegal type of knife under the law and the good reason gives you a defence for having it in your possession and allows you to carry it legally for those activities.

it is in effect at that time a tool of your job you are carrying out. no different from a carpet fitter carrying a Stanley knife etc.

No, no and thrice no...

It is NOT an 'illegal' knife.

 

There are some knives which come under the classification of "Prohibited Weapons" - automatic openers (flick knives), Bali-Song knives, punch daggers, gravity knives are a few examples. The op's bowie is simply a fixed blade knife. Yes, it would be an offence to have in a public place without 'good reason' (Criminal Justice Act 1988, section 139), and if you wore it in the pub on a "Friday night is fight night", you'd be looking at an offensive weapons charge (whole different kettle of fish, and much more serious), but the knife itself is perfectly legal.

Incidentally, it is also not an absolute offence, otherwise section 139 would not include the phrase "it shall be a defence... etc" - the "good reason" is, when push comes to shove, something of which you have to convince a jury, or more strictly, something the prosecuting counsel have to prove beyond reasonable doubt that you didn't have. The list given in S139 are examples, not an exclusive list.

Personally, if I needed a blade that big for cutting stuff for hides etc, a bill hook would be much more discreet, as it gives off the 'garden tool' vibe, rather than 'big scary knife likely to worry policemen and NKPs (non-knife-people)'.

Edited by CaptainBeaky
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Lots, like cut through branches etc. A machete is a massive knife and i wouldn't like to cut through vegetation with an opinel.

 

That's what I mean. It isn't a machete and it isn't a small knife. It's kind of no-mans land.

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Go and read the BASC website.

 

Many Police Officers nowadays get confused by the law as well as there are two pieces of legislation which cover the possession on a knife or bladed/sharply pointed object in a public place.

 

The powers for the officer differ dependant on the piece of legislation, as do the rights and defences for the person carrying it.

 

Most importantly, don't make flip stupid jokey comments if asked why you have got it... they don't sound funny in court when they are put as an admission of guilt eg "I have a gun, the knives are for self defence aren't they"

and if the officer says "have you got anything on you that you shouldn't have?" don't say "yes", say "NO, but you may want to be aware that I have a knife on my belt/in my pocket etc"

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Go and read the BASC website.

 

Many Police Officers nowadays get confused by the law as well as there are two pieces of legislation which cover the possession on a knife or bladed/sharply pointed object in a public place.

 

The powers for the officer differ dependant on the piece of legislation, as do the rights and defences for the person carrying it.

 

Most importantly, don't make flip stupid jokey comments if asked why you have got it... they don't sound funny in court when they are put as an admission of guilt eg "I have a gun, the knives are for self defence aren't they"

and if the officer says "have you got anything on you that you shouldn't have?" don't say "yes", say "NO, but you may want to be aware that I have a knife on my belt/in my pocket etc"

 

You then have put doubt in the copper mind, you should just say no and not mention the knife as you have it on you legally.

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You guys must live in some iffy areas if you are all in constant worry about the police stopping and searching you and your car.

I've had knives and guns on and about my person constantly for over 40 years. A policeman has never popped up in the field to ask why I had either a gun or a knife, nor would I expect one to.

My original answer to the OP was simply "yes", he is legal and has no need to offer any explanation why he chooses to use any legal knife for hunting.

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The good reason is ultimately for a court to decide.

Police won't get confused over knife legislation as it is hilariously simple, if you have good reason your ok. A deer/rabbit Hunter with a knife or two is not an issue. Carrying the knives to deer/rabbit(or squirrel perhaps) hunting is fine too, as is your trip home.

Stopping off in the pub for 5 pints and a pie with it on your person/in your car is not, as you should have taken it home.

The police may exercise their discretion here if your not a rude yob keen on pointing out the law (the courts can decide that point , that's why they are there) and realise that it should have gone home however the only way they know you have it is because they have found it and then you have to wonder how this turn in circumstances has come about.

If police ask glibly you have anything you shoulnt have then answer truthfully, if they are going to search you then tell them about the knife (il presume they can see the shotgun slung over your shoulder) as if they ask you and you reply no and this results in them injuring themselves it can result in an abh charge (the stated case involved a needle and drug addict but it transfers over as these things do).

If unsure have a look on the cps website.

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You guys must live in some iffy areas if you are all in constant worry about the police stopping and searching you and your car.

I've had knives and guns on and about my person constantly for over 40 years. A policeman has never popped up in the field to ask why I had either a gun or a knife, nor would I expect one to.

My original answer to the OP was simply "yes", he is legal and has no need to offer any explanation why he chooses to use any legal knife for hunting.

 

Whilst I also have enjoyed never being stopped and searched it is the unexpected that can cause you trouble like a car crash and the arrival of the police or other person assisting you seeing the gun or knife and calling the police. It is then that you have to justify the possession. Other legislation regarding knife ownership is the VCR bill.

 

If what the op is hunting is no larger than a pheasant or pigeon than a large hunting/fighting type knife may be difficult to justify and better tools are to be had to cut bush etc to build the hide.

 

I did have a friend who does a lot of sub aqua diving, where a knife is a mandatory part of the kit, get questioned about suitability of having it in his possession when attending a training session at a local public swimming pool, but no action was taken and the knife now stays at home for such sessions.

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The good reason is ultimately for a court to decide.

Police won't get confused over knife legislation as it is hilariously simple,

As a retired Officer and ex Custody Sergeant I can guarantee that although it is simple, a number of Officers DO get confused with some thinking that all lock knives are prohibited items or offensive weapons per se.......... the removal of centralised training and written test of law knowledge was a wonderful thing...not

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Most importantly, don't make flip stupid jokey comments if asked why you have got it... they don't sound funny in court when they are put as an admission of guilt eg "I have a gun, the knives are for self defence aren't they"

and if the officer says "have you got anything on you that you shouldn't have?" don't say "yes", say "NO, but you may want to be aware that I have a knife on my belt/in my pocket etc"

I think you hitting the nail on the head there - don't be rude and be polite and helpful with a policeman, even if you are frustrated at them stopping you, and you're more likely to get them on your side and helpful back.

 

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Technically it doesn't but I can't for the life of me understand why you would need a knife like that. I mean, what does that do that your opinel doesn't?

 

Auditioning for Sons of Anarchy Season 7 maybe ;)

 

I have gralloched deer from rabbit sized munties up to red hinds with my Gerber Gator without any problems

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Yes you have the legal right to carry those knifes in the circumstances you have stated.

 

However, If you were stopped on the way or from a shoot and had the knife in the car then you would be asked more questions for having a 12.5” Bowie than you would if you had a bill hook or machete esp if your reason for having it is for cutting vegetation. The Opinel is quite common so I doubt you would have any issues with that but a 12.5" Bowie has a different look and therefore would attract a lot more attention.

 

Personally, I use an old bill hook for hide prep and my Opinel or SOG for game prep.

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As a retired Officer and ex Custody Sergeant I can guarantee that although it is simple, a number of Officers DO get confused with some thinking that all lock knives are prohibited items or offensive weapons per se.......... the removal of centralised training and written test of law knowledge was a wonderful thing...not

Is there an offence being carried out by me taking these knives hunting nic?

Thanks for your input

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