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Underdog

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The minimum calibre is 22 hornet on most forces for fox.

Home office guidelines say that you can shoot foxes at close range,But the police tell you what you can and cannot shoot and they put it on your licence.

So there is nothing in the law that says foxes are vermin fact.so that's the grey area.

 

Get caught riisk prosecution fact

 

So I would assume that fox used to be on an fac ticket many years ago and that's why people disagree.

 

Just trying to help ,you would not want to lose your licence.

 

Best regards

 

Youngie

I have fox listed on my FAC for .22 and .17 hmr it states FOX and VERMIN

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All the man did was put up a report on he shot a FOX. I havent been a member for long as i see it you dont need the ANTI brigade you lot do enough to shoot yourselfs in the foot

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Personally, I think the comment " I emptied the magazine on him" wasn't needed. Underdog, you didn't state how many rounds you had in your magazine and have left it up to us to guess. The fact you needed a follow up shot doesnt really matter to the argument regarding calibre, as most game shooters send the second barrel if the first one didn't do the job properly.

I haven't got a FAC so I can't argue for or against on the calibre. However reading this thread does throw up a fair bit of confusion and is putting me off going for my ticket with all the grey areas being argued.

 

At the end of the day the fox was dispatched so well done on that :good:

All the best.

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Here is another disgraceful picture!

I shot this deer twice and was ready with the third!

It ran after a perfectly placed first shot, the second connected after it stopped from a one hundred yard dash. Oddly I feel no shame for this or the fox's.

 

Me thinks you do yourself no favours, I would put the spade back in the cupboard before that hole gets to deep.................

Edited by docholiday

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All the man did was put up a report on he shot a FOX. I havent been a member for long as i see it you dont need the ANTI brigade you lot do enough to shoot yourselfs in the foot

Lol, spot on.

 

U.

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Here is another disgraceful picture!

I shot this deer twice and was ready with the third!

It ran after a perfectly placed first shot, the second connected after it stopped from a one hundred yard dash. Oddly I feel no shame for this or the fox's.

 

Me thinks you do yourself no favours, I would put the spade back in the cupboard before that hole gets to deep.................

Really Sir, how?

 

U.

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All the man did was put up a report on he shot a FOX. I havent been a member for long as i see it you dont need the ANTI brigade you lot do enough to shoot yourselfs in the foot

 

You get used to it, some will argue black is white.

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Personally, I think the comment " I emptied the magazine on him" wasn't needed. Underdog, you didn't state how many rounds you had in your magazine and have left it up to us to guess. The fact you needed a follow up shot doesnt really matter to the argument regarding calibre, as most game shooters send the second barrel if the first one didn't do the job properly.

I haven't got a FAC so I can't argue for or against on the calibre. However reading this thread does throw up a fair bit of confusion and is putting me off going for my ticket with all the grey areas being argued.

 

At the end of the day the fox was dispatched so well done on that :good:

All the best.

put one more in just in case he wakes up and has a nibble

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Hi

For all the people on this thread that are shooting foxes with a 22lr just check you have fox on your ticket or phone BASC or your local police.as it is illegal if you have not.

I was going to put this on my tread but it got locked even thou it was legitimate.

I am not having a go at anyone just stating a fact,your call

 

 

Best Regards

 

Youngie

That's a strong statement and complete bull poop. Foxes are both pests and vermin and as basc published in their magazine no court is going to say they don't meet the dictionary definition of vermin and they are happy for people to shoot on a vermin condition.

Whether it's a good idea to post a story like this I don't know and have mixed views. That said chest shot is the more ethical one and at that range you get plenty of penetration with a 40grn sub. Ultimately it's a fox and a dead one is a good one I've done worse with a .243 but I do shoot a couple or so each year

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That's a strong statement and complete bull poop. Foxes are both pests and vermin and as basc published in their magazine no court is going to say they don't meet the dictionary definition of vermin and they are happy for people to shoot on a vermin condition.

Whether it's a good idea to post a story like this I don't know and have mixed views. That said chest shot is the more ethical one and at that range you get plenty of penetration with a 40grn sub. Ultimately it's a fox and a dead one is a good one I've done worse with a .243 but I do shoot a couple or so each year

"A couple or so".

Your too modest lol.

 

U.

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Guest

That's a strong statement and complete bull poop. Foxes are both pests and vermin and as basc published in their magazine no court is going to say they don't meet the dictionary definition of vermin and they are happy for people to shoot on a vermin condition.

Whether it's a good idea to post a story like this I don't know and have mixed views. That said chest shot is the more ethical one and at that range you get plenty of penetration with a 40grn sub. Ultimately it's a fox and a dead one is a good one I've done worse with a .243 but I do shoot a couple or so each year

That's your opinion. :good::good:

 

Go and read section 13.22 of the home office guide lines.

 

Some police forces will put foxes on your ticket for a 22 lr or 17 hmr and some won't fact.

 

Durham police won't, it does tell you on their web site and they don't class foxes as vermin neither.

 

However if you are lucky enough to have fox on your ticket,good luck to ya,I am not lucky so WHY is that Bull.

 

So when i posted a recent thread on a fox i got jumped on even thou i was using the correct tackle for job for the police force i come under (the thread got locked) :no::no:

 

 

Underdog has already said in his post that he has not got fox on his 22lr ticket so where does that leave use now.

 

Best Regards

 

 

Youngie

Edited by Guest

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It leaves it as under vermin, the police don't make the law they interpret it. Durham has a different interpretation to basc it's unenforceable. That said I've seen worse injuries with center fires legs blown off etc it happens and it happens to everyone if you shoot long enough.

Just because you have a feo who says one thing lots have one who says something else. None of mine say fox they are all vermin and deer. Funnily enough including a rim fire, obviously it would be illegal to shoot deer as there is a law for that there is no law to cover foxes and that is fact.

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no comment.

youngie I agree with you, but you're banging your head against a brick wall, you can't educate a person if they won't listen, read into that what you will, all we can do is carry on doing what we do and let the others do it their own way, see who loses their ticket first eh? :lol:

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That's a strong statement and complete bull poop. Foxes are both pests and vermin and as basc published in their magazine no court is going to say they don't meet the dictionary definition of vermin and they are happy for people to shoot on a vermin condition.

Whether it's a good idea to post a story like this I don't know and have mixed views. That said chest shot is the more ethical one and at that range you get plenty of penetration with a 40grn sub. Ultimately it's a fox and a dead one is a good one I've done worse with a .243 but I do shoot a couple or so each year

 

Not in Cheshire :no:

I have on both the 22 LR and HMR for vermin , on the .223 CF fox only :yes:

That being the case if i shot a fox with the 22 lr and either the police or RSPCA decided to take me to court do you think my shooting organization would back me up with not having it on my ticket ???

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Yes as they have published it in their magazine. You have vermin then crack on.

The RSPCA would only prosecute for causing unnecessary suffering and if you had then it's a different kettle of fish and what conditions you have would be the least of your worries

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Yes as they have published it in their magazine. You have vermin then crack on.

The RSPCA would only prosecute for causing unnecessary suffering and if you had then it's a different kettle of fish and what conditions you have would be the least of your worries

 

So if a new shooter was to read this and gut shot a fox with a 22 LR thinking it was ok then he would be in the **** !!!

See where im coming from ;)

The internet can be a dangerous place at times :yp:

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Do it with a cf and he would be in the same do dah potentially. As could any of us with any caliber it's irrelevant to conditions.

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The real reason some forces are fussy how they list stuff is they just don't want any claim or compliciancy should a claim of cruelty be made against a licence holder.

In short they are covering their bottoms.

Now if someone here wants to get their panties all knotted up over it go ahead.

Personally I think you ought to go for a walk with a 22 but that's just my way lol.

You know what, I just don't care. Do you know why I don't care? I will tell you. They can take them off you when ever they want.

Now in some that gives rise to fear and then fear turns to aggression.

Let them have them I say and I will reach for the bow or airgun. Still may have a shotgun. Sprags even.

I don't care enough to prostate my self to the state. The same state that can not wait to tax and fine me at every turn.

I just don't care, OK.

 

U.

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Do it with a cf and he would be in the same do dah potentially. As could any of us with any caliber it's irrelevant to conditions.

 

But you would have your shooting organizations backing in court :P

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The real reason some forces are fussy how they list stuff is they just don't want any claim or compliciancy should a claim of cruelty be made against a licence holder.

In short they are covering their bottoms.

Now if someone here wants to get their panties all knotted up over it go ahead.

Personally I think you ought to go for a walk with a 22 but that's just my way lol.

You know what, I just don't care. Do you know why I don't care? I will tell you. They can take them off you when ever they want.

Now in some that gives rise to fear and then fear turns to aggression.

Let them have them I say and I will reach for the bow or airgun. Still may have a shotgun. Sprags even.

I don't care enough to prostate my self to the state. The same state that can not wait to tax and fine me at every turn.

I just don't care, OK.

 

U.

good on ya U.

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So there is nothing in the law that says foxes are vermin fact

 

And there is nothing in law which says they aren't, fact! By the OED and every other definition, they very clearly are. I suspect that in the absence of a legal definition of vermin, the dictionary one would be the starting point in any attempted prosecution of a shooter. I suspect the case would get thrown out in short order.

 

Durham police won't, it does tell you on their web site and they don't class foxes as vermin neither

 

Thankfully it doesn't matter a toss what Durham do or don't class as vermin as they can only apply the law as it's written, not as they think it should be. We have already established that the law doesn't provide a definition of vermin, so its not up to Durham to make one up. Especially Durham with their atrocious record of poor administration of firearms law!

 

But you would have your shooting organizations backing in court :P

There was a big article about this very subject in the BASC magazine this a year or two ago. They concluded that a fox was most definitely vermin by any sensible definition and that if it was ever tested in court, it would be highly likely to go in the shooter's favour. They said they would support members in the unlikely event that anyone was prosecuted for it. This was in the days before they had full legal insurance, I suspect they'd be even more likely to support you now. Might be worth getting David BASC's view on here?

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There was a big article about this very subject in the BASC magazine this a year or two ago. They concluded that a fox was most definitely vermin by any sensible definition and that if it was ever tested in court, it would be highly likely to go in the shooter's favour. They said they would support members in the unlikely event that anyone was prosecuted for it. This was in the days before they had full legal insurance, I suspect they'd be even more likely to support you now. Might be worth getting David BASC's view on here?

 

A friend phoned BASC to ask the very question and was told it's a no no unless he had fox on his ticket for the RF :whistling:

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