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Hatsan jams , hopefully a clarification


sportsbob
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I have put this post up to try and help with peoples issues Hatsan Escort jams. I have had many more issues with two Mossberg 9200 semis than I have with two Escorts, I have had very similar issues with a Remington 1100 and a Beretta AL391 to those experienced with the Escorts. So in my findings spread over 20 years or so the Escorts are no different in functionality to some top brands.

 

When people say their Hatsan Escort jams quite often they don`t say exactly what the jam is, bellow are a few possible types of a jam and my personal finding with two different versions of the Escort semi.

 

1. not extract the fired cartridge fully, often caused by low pressure, dirty gas ports, damaged O ring etc.

2. not feed the next cartridge into the action from the magazine, often caused by wear to the mechanical components or dirty magazine tube.

3. Not lift the next cartridge, caused by wear or broken components in the trigger group.

4. miss feed the next cartridge into the chamber, can be caused by a variety of things but I have found the most common is a badly formed crimp on cheap cartridges which also generally have no taper.

 

I have owned two Hatsan Escorts the first bought second hand from a friend was what is commonly known as the Mk2 which is basically a Mk1 with curved recoil spacers, flat magazine end cap and vertical side facing vents in the fore end, this one would occasionally with 67mm Eley First cartridges not full extract the fired cartridge and then try to feed the second causing a jam . I cured this by not using Ely First.

 

The one I now own bought from new is the current model ie curved butt spacers with conical magazine end cap and small upward facing vents in the fore end, this one suffered from new with the extractor claw slipping of the lip on the brass on a variety of cartridges. I cured this by stretching the extractor claw spring a little until the claw tension was similar to a Beretta AL391. Since then I have had only a handful of miss feed issues with about 1000 rounds through it since, these miss feeds were with Hull Superfast cartridges and no issues at all with a variety of cartridges including Fiocchi Top one 67mm fibre.

 

So yes you could say you get what you pay for as the Escorts internal component finish and fit is not as good as the makes costing more than twice us much, but I bought the Beretta and one of the Mossbergs new and still had similar issues regarding jams.

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I don't see what you are trying to achieve with this post.you have said nothing more that countless people have said in the past few years.i have never owned a hatsan and from what I have read and seen over the last few years I never will.i have no love of semi auto's regardless of who makes them. as with any engineered product you will get a certain amount of fails with any make.if you buy one of the main brands you will get reliability that has been built in from years of research and development not to mention vast amounts of money.i think that what people have to think about when buying a hatsan is that this is made by a company that has taken all the major makers guns apart to see how they are built then said what corners can we cut to bring the price down so we can achieve large sales. and with corners cut reliability and quality goes out the window..the threads on hatsans will roll on for a long time yet and I doubt your post is going to make it stop any faster.all brands come in for some criticism at times and in most cases it is a minor easily sorted fault.but with the hatsan figures show that around 50% fail and that is unacceptable in any product.i have a semi auto in my cabinet that I bought for my grandson as he wanted one so I bought a beretta a400 xcell new it has only ever had 28 gram through it has never failed to work correctly if it had not it would not still be there as I will only accept 100% reliability.

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I don't see what you are trying to achieve with this post.you have said nothing more that countless people have said in the past few years.i have never owned a hatsan and from what I have read and seen over the last few years I never will.i have no love of semi auto's regardless of who makes them. as with any engineered product you will get a certain amount of fails with any make.if you buy one of the main brands you will get reliability that has been built in from years of research and development not to mention vast amounts of money.i think that what people have to think about when buying a hatsan is that this is made by a company that has taken all the major makers guns apart to see how they are built then said what corners can we cut to bring the price down so we can achieve large sales. and with corners cut reliability and quality goes out the window..the threads on hatsans will roll on for a long time yet and I doubt your post is going to make it stop any faster.all brands come in for some criticism at times and in most cases it is a minor easily sorted fault.but with the hatsan figures show that around 50% fail and that is unacceptable in any product.i have a semi auto in my cabinet that I bought for my grandson as he wanted one so I bought a beretta a400 xcell new it has only ever had 28 gram through it has never failed to work correctly if it had not it would not still be there as I will only accept 100% reliability.

I am a huge fan of Beretta semi autos though I currently shoot a remington , but what I would say is if you will only expect 100% reliability then sell it now , because sooner or later it will jam or something will break , my last 391 suffered its first jam after about 24 months use ,its gas piston broke after about 3 years a cheap enough fix though.

My current gun is still awaiting its first jam or problem after about the same lenght of time but it will happen .

Even a O/U cannot be said to be 100% reliable 100% of the time.

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I am a huge fan of Beretta semi autos though I currently shoot a remington , but what I would say is if you will only expect 100% reliability then sell it now , because sooner or later it will jam or something will break , my last 391 suffered its first jam after about 24 months use ,its gas piston broke after about 3 years a cheap enough fix though.

My current gun is still awaiting its first jam or problem after about the same lenght of time but it will happen .

Even a O/U cannot be said to be 100% reliable 100% of the time.

The xcell my grandson has is one of the first it has fired many thousands of shots.If a part breaks then it will be fixed. However if it kept having parts break on a regular basis then it would go.As for over/unders I have one that has been with me thirty years never been serviced never failed in any way. I could not even guess how many shots it has done hundreds of thousands that's for sure.100%reliable.From what I read and know of Hatsan failings are fairly commonplace. My guns are for competition and the last thing you need breaking concentration is the gun.I do not knock the brand if people like them then all the best to them but with the reputation they have built up they are not for me.

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I dont get what all the fuss is about

you can pick up a hatsan for between £50 and £150 if you look around

clean them and service them, use appropriate cartridges and they will work just fine

 

sure if you spend another £500 you will get something that will probably save you a missed pigeon or duck because it fed the cartridge once in a blue moon.......but you will have spent that extra £500!

 

 

horses for courses!

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a few years ago I had a 3 shot escort, money was tight and I'd buy the cheapest carts available, normally these were 65-67mm and yup I got jams and mis feeds, now I have an 8 shot, only ever buy decent carts 70mm and it never misses a beat, most of the problems we hear are from user error, small carts or dirty guns

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Depends on what the gun is used for as well,

As bostonmick is saying - his guns are specifically for competition and he would rather spend out on a gun with less statistical chance of breakdowns so that it doesn't break his concentration - also to do with subconscious paranoia and confidence in the tool at hand I feel.

For someone wanting a cheap semi to try out with and not shooting 100's of carts per session, as a hide gun, or a general tool then why not have a Hatsan?

 

 

Also, to finish, some people don't have the necessary funds to buy a £1000 gun, but £150 is more in reach - if it breaks down, then it's still better to have had a go and to fix it and carry on than to not get involved with the sport at all.

 

I brought a cheapo £100 O/U to get into shotguns, yes, it broke - firing pin snapped, trigger was very heavy and a few other tweaks. But I had already shot 100's of carts through it before it broke, and for all the work done to it cost me only £60 so still cheaper than some second hand guns and still kills stuff just fine.

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the problem with many semi autos as opposed to an o/u or indeed sbs is that many brands, not just hatsans, are very fussy about the cartridge they need to ensure proper cycling.

If you shoot 10,000 cartridges a year then the cost of shooting your semi auto as opposed to the o/u or sbs could be an extra £500 a year or so.

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I don't see anyone suggesting ANY semi is 100%, or some don't need certain cartridges to cycle efficiently, and any and all can/may/will break at some point.

 

BUT................

 

Nothing is a fussy or unreliable OVERALL compared to Hatsans, particularly the early ones!

 

Why on earth do you think we get so many threads about them. Do a search of Hatsan problems on this or any other shooting forum you care to name and compare the Hatsan problems with those of any other make! Please don't say its because they are popular and there are more Hatsans about than other makes, Beretta is the biggest manufacturer of semis in the world, you don't see threads every week saying my Beretta Semi is broken!

 

The threads speak for themselves, nobody sets out to hate the Hatsan, especially those who invest their hard earned in one, unfortunately experience leads to a high proportion feeling that way about them.

 

:good:

Edited by Dekers
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The xcell my grandson has is one of the first it has fired many thousands of shots.If a part breaks then it will be fixed. However if it kept having parts break on a regular basis then it would go.As for over/unders I have one that has been with me thirty years never been serviced never failed in any way. I could not even guess how many shots it has done hundreds of thousands that's for sure.100%reliable.From what I read and know of Hatsan failings are fairly commonplace. My guns are for competition and the last thing you need breaking concentration is the gun. I do not knock the brand if people like them then all the best to them but with the reputation they have built up they are not for me.

 

Yes you do, repeatedly!

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Mine works fine. Number 1 problem occurred 2-3x in 2 years of using. That's all. But I use my guns mainly for rough shooting, etc. We had a rain storm last summer, my mate was very unhappy about his Berettas's wood work getting wet. Me, plastic stock, so??? And I like the look of posh people's faces when I turn up on a nice clay range with my so called (camo) "cockroach". Mine, I like it, it does the job, I'm not that good to have a top end gun, wouldn't matter on my misses :) Everyone different. Peace!

Edited by londonercsecse
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I found the best trick with a semi is to find cartridges it likes my old 1100 used to be really fussy but kept clean and fed what it wanted it never missed a beat

Semi's will always be less reliable than other guns simply due to moving parts the more moving parts there are the more likely there is to be a failure

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I don't see what you are trying to achieve with this post.you have said nothing more that countless people have said in the past few years.i have never owned a hatsan and from what I have read and seen over the last few years I never will.i have no love of semi auto's regardless of who makes them. as with any engineered product you will get a certain amount of fails with any make.if you buy one of the main brands you will get reliability that has been built in from years of research and development not to mention vast amounts of money.i think that what people have to think about when buying a hatsan is that this is made by a company that has taken all the major makers guns apart to see how they are built then said what corners can we cut to bring the price down so we can achieve large sales. and with corners cut reliability and quality goes out the window..the threads on hatsans will roll on for a long time yet and I doubt your post is going to make it stop any faster.all brands come in for some criticism at times and in most cases it is a minor easily sorted fault.but with the hatsan figures show that around 50% fail and that is unacceptable in any product.i have a semi auto in my cabinet that I bought for my grandson as he wanted one so I bought a beretta a400 xcell new it has only ever had 28 gram through it has never failed to work correctly if it had not it would not still be there as I will only accept 100% reliability.

What I am trying to achieve is a list of common causes for jam / feed issues for semi autos the idea of which is to assist people . As I said I have had several issues with most semis and no more issues with Hatsans than Beretta .

Thanks for the tips Bob. May help someone one day.

 

U.

Thank you .

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dont be fooled into thinking the more expensive s/a's dont have issues. my 1301 has been back to gmk twice.

in all fairness, its back now and shooting like a demon with no problems at all.

 

every gun will have its faults. regardless of cost.

Edited by brett1985
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  • 6 years later...

Your list of probably caused doesn't explain mine with a Escort Extrema Magnum Waterfowl shotgun.  From two years ago, the first time I shot it until yesterday, the gun will not eject the shell all the way on every load.  I though I needed to break it in.  2 3/4, 3", 3 1/2" all don't eject all the way.  2 3/4" and 3" have this issue about every third shot.  The 3 1/2" won't even eject 100% of the time.  The next shell comes out of the magazine and I am constantly trying to get one empty shell out of the chamber/receiver with another one in the chamber/receiver with it.  I've clean it.  I've studied it.  I use quality shotgun shells (all steel shot).  Improve Cylinder choke.  This problem started when it was brand spanking new and only got worse.  Very unhappy with the shotgun.  My Benelli SBEII only had this issue rarely with only clay pigeon rounds.  If you only put one round in, it ejects perfectly every time.  Manually eject the shells pulling the bolt fast, works perfectly.  Shoot it!  Problem.

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