snow white Posted February 8, 2015 Report Share Posted February 8, 2015 Hi have been in shed reloading 223 my press a Lee challenge keeps putting heads in different depth it is getting to be a pain as anybody had the same problem if so how do you cure it I am using new rcbs dies thanks for looking Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wymberley Posted February 8, 2015 Report Share Posted February 8, 2015 To help answer, what is it that you're measuring - CoL or base to ogive? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snow white Posted February 8, 2015 Author Report Share Posted February 8, 2015 To ogive it changes on every round using dial callipers tryed digital to.I now should stick to one set of callipers the dial are more accurate cost arm leg getting really fed up.measurement. is 1.813 inches to base to ogive overall 2.210.verging from 1.800 to 1.820 quite a difference. Thanks again for looking Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wymberley Posted February 8, 2015 Report Share Posted February 8, 2015 That is a big difference and I don't know the answer. As the dies are new, have you stripped them down to ensure all is well - no swarf, etc, etc, and that they're firmly locked in the press. I've used the same press for over 25 years with no problem to that extent even when the aluminium linkage had cracked - this is now corrected by getting the steel version with the much improved handle. It may just also pay to see if there is any wear between the ram and frame and also the linkage. As you're measuring to the ogive, I'm pretty sure that you've already checked the bullet base to ogive dimension for consistency. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snow white Posted February 8, 2015 Author Report Share Posted February 8, 2015 I have just come out of shed I noticed the bolt that goes through the press this some free play will try and get a stud made to go through to take out free play. What do you mean bullet base to ogive I am measuring from base of bullet to ogive is there something I am missing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seeker Posted February 8, 2015 Report Share Posted February 8, 2015 (edited) Not familiar with the RCBS seater but .. If the cartridge base is in the holder and the die rests on the holder every time, then the variable has to be elsewhere ... Né? So unless the primer is proud, the other point of contact is between the stem and the bullet. As Wymberly says, plus have you tried a marker pen on the bullet to see where the hollow seater stem meets the bullet? If it is pushing on the bullet tip/nose you're possibly measuring an actual variation in bullet length? Basing this on my use of the Lee and Wildon type seaters. A bit of play in the linkages should let the die and base line up every time ...? Edited February 8, 2015 by seeker Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snow white Posted February 8, 2015 Author Report Share Posted February 8, 2015 The seated it just below the plastic tip and between the ogive I am lost tried all sorts but nothing is working. Going to leave it till tomorrow got appointment with Charle that I missed Friday night hope he is not late. haha Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wymberley Posted February 8, 2015 Report Share Posted February 8, 2015 I have just come out of shed I noticed the bolt that goes through the press this some free play will try and get a stud made to go through to take out free play. What do you mean bullet base to ogive I am measuring from base of bullet to ogive is there something I am missing. Obviously some confusion creeping in which might be down to terminology (I plead guilty). When you measure the finished product are you measuring the cartridge overall length or the length from the head of the case to the bullet ogive. Particularly with a soft nose, but also to a lesser degree with a ballistic tip, the latter gives a far more accurate assessment. As you said the latter - my fault I said base instead of head - I figured that you had the facility to measure the consistency of the bullet base to ogive dimension. If all else fails after sorting out the stud, you could just try running a small drill marginally larger than the widest part of the ballistic tip a short way into the die to ensure that only the the one bearing area is in contact with the die. I've just remembered that I had to do this once when experimenting with a 40gr Nosler BT in a 22Hornet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snow white Posted February 9, 2015 Author Report Share Posted February 9, 2015 I have all the kit to measure the ogive.had a go this afternoon the only thing that it could be is the die holder does the base of case have to touch the die holder the on I have is a Lee one is there a difference in them.thanks for looking Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wymberley Posted February 9, 2015 Report Share Posted February 9, 2015 I have all the kit to measure the ogive.had a go this afternoon the only thing that it could be is the die holder does the base of case have to touch the die holder the on I have is a Lee one is there a difference in them.thanks for looking Not 'bottling out' but I no longer load 223. For the nitty gritty it may be better to ask someone who currently does so giving the load bullet details. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Underdog Posted February 9, 2015 Report Share Posted February 9, 2015 Hmmm no the shell holder does not need to touch the die. Do make sure the die is set to the amount of roll crimping you want when the ram is as far as it can go! If you are feeling resistance and thinking that's it travel wise you may be short stroking. Juggling between die positionxroll crimp if desired must be set with the ram held to Max height. So put a loaded round at the length you want in the shell holder. Screw the die down until it contacts the cartridge. Now screw the seater down to the bullet but do hold the ram and don't let it be jacked. HTH. U. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snow white Posted February 9, 2015 Author Report Share Posted February 9, 2015 Tar underdog will try tomorrow it is very annoying got to be something simple.but why does it alter from one round to the next.surely if one comes out OK all the others should.thanks for your time Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Underdog Posted February 9, 2015 Report Share Posted February 9, 2015 My assumption is it (the ram) is not fully bottomed out on the handle mate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seeker Posted February 10, 2015 Report Share Posted February 10, 2015 Seems Lee seater dies work "differently" to RCBS so can't help there. Hopefully you'll find someone familiar with the set up you use. The shell holders are fairly interchangeable and to a common industry standard. Hope Charlie wasn't late and didn't notice the differences? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snow white Posted February 10, 2015 Author Report Share Posted February 10, 2015 I waited three bloody hours it was cold to say the least and he didn't oblige me will have another go tonight. Underdog I am thinking the same can not see what does it can be much abliged for everyones help will keep you all posted how I get on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wymberley Posted February 10, 2015 Report Share Posted February 10, 2015 The shell holders are fairly interchangeable and to a common industry standard. Good point. As we're groping at straws and as you're using a lee press possibly with a Lee shell holder, is it stamped number 4? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old man Posted February 11, 2015 Report Share Posted February 11, 2015 Not familiar with RCBS dies but surely the reference point for the depth starts with the fact that the die is set initially from the top of the shell holder? Still not understanding this fully? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Underdog Posted February 11, 2015 Report Share Posted February 11, 2015 (edited) Not familiar with RCBS dies but surely the reference point for the depth starts with the fact that the die is set initially from the top of the shell holder. Still not understanding this fully? May be for a sizing die but not nesasarily.For a bullet seated die how much of a crimp one desires determines how close to the shell holder it should be Edited February 11, 2015 by Underdog Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old man Posted February 12, 2015 Report Share Posted February 12, 2015 Try setting the die up as per the RCBS die instructions? Then use a lee crimp die? Sorry to carp on but? if the die isn't set from the shell holder how do you expect the depth (COL) to be the same? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stu nesling Posted February 12, 2015 Report Share Posted February 12, 2015 (edited) deleted Edited February 12, 2015 by stu nesling Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Underdog Posted February 12, 2015 Report Share Posted February 12, 2015 Try setting the die up as per the RCBS die instructions? Then use a lee crimp die? Sorry to carp on but? if the die isn't set from the shell holder how do you expect the depth (COL) to be the same? By having the ram at the end of its stroke sir.Most seating dies are made so the case mouth edge is rolled into the bullet. This is variable by the choice of the user. It can not be used at all by screwing the die away from the shell holder. You may be thinking that consistency is via the contact between shell holder and die and that is understandable. The ram has to be at the end of the stroke first. Then set the die. It matters not if the die is not in contact with the shell holder! U. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old man Posted February 13, 2015 Report Share Posted February 13, 2015 Thanks, I'll just stick to the Lee dead length seating die and crimp separately. Simples! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snow white Posted February 13, 2015 Author Report Share Posted February 13, 2015 Hi old man.the die does not touch the shell holder it does not have to that what I was doing wrong. Brought rcbs shell holder for no reason the Lee one does the job just the same.will put it with other bits and bobs. got it sorted now thanks to everybody that gave me sound as good advice. Thank you all Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seeker Posted February 13, 2015 Report Share Posted February 13, 2015 Happy days .. Didnt realise they worked that way, but like OM I'll stay with a dead length but no crimp ... Maybe Charlie will appreciate the extra time you have for him? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Underdog Posted February 14, 2015 Report Share Posted February 14, 2015 (edited) Happy days .. Didnt realise they worked that way, but like OM I'll stay with a dead length but no crimp ... Maybe Charlie will appreciate the extra time you have for him? Lol, extra time doing what?More time has been wasted explaining a very simple process here! Lol, some people. Some folk use this die some use that die and some always think their way is the only best way! Lol, muppets. Edited February 14, 2015 by Underdog Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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